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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,561
tisza said:
Lib Dems just delusional. Independents were the main beneficiary of the protest vote.
These local elections are not a reliable barometer for long-term politics. Turnout usually poor. Labour dodged a bullet by no Scottish council elections - that would have been a bloodbath for SNP.
Lib Dems are barely polling 10% in the EU election polls.
By the time next GE comes round UK will be out of EU in some form or other and the Remain issue will be sidelined. What could become an issue is after a couple of years people aren't satisfied that May/Corbyn "solution" is working then we could end up revisiting the whole saga again.
Click to expand...

Local elections are not a referendum on the EU. But, there’s no way you can say that the Liberals didn’t have a good result. The fact that people used them as a protest vote and hammered UKIP shows that being 100% remain didn’t frighten voters off. Which it would have done if the will of the people really was purely for Brexit.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,562
Grendel said:
What’s Robinson got to ukip
Click to expand...

An advisor. He is their advisor as Party rules forbid him membership.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,563
martcov said:
An advisor. He is their advisor as Party rules forbid him membership.
Click to expand...

He’s not standing for them. What percentage vote did they get at the last general election?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,564
Grendel said:
They are the biggest liars in politics
Click to expand...

Based on what?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,565
Grendel said:
I understand comprehension when it makes sense and isn’t from a rabid mad bigot like you.

So the parties who have leave in their manifesto and to honour the result will score the same as the Lib Dem’s the greens and that other hapless bunch of losers with Heidi and chukka - is they what you are saying?
Click to expand...

No. I am saying the Tories will be hammered as will UKIP. Labour would beat Farage if they took a clear line either way. At the moment they are losing hard core on both sides.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,566
Grendel said:
He’s not standing for them. What percentage vote did they get at the last general election?
Click to expand...

He is standing as an independent for the reason I have already given. The last general election is history, as is the Brexit referendum. Their EU MEPS have been reduced by Farage swapping parties. Awaits the cry of traitor... should give up his mandate.... etc etc. Long wait. Soubry and co were pilloried by the same people who stay silent when the leader switches sides.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,567
skybluetony176 said:
Based on what?
Click to expand...

Lol
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,568
martcov said:
He is standing as an independent for the reason I have already given. The last general election is history, as is the Brexit referendum. Their EU MEPS have been reduced by Farage swapping parties. Awaits the cry of traitor... should give up his mandate.... etc etc. Long wait. Soubry and co were pilloried by the same people who stay silent when the leader switches sides.
Click to expand...

You really make it up as you go along don’t you. Shall I get Nigel’s autograph for you? Signed photo to put on your bedside table.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,569
Grendel said:
They are the biggest liars in politics
Click to expand...

No no no.......... I think your leader is a contender for that honour... and if you go international, his bedfellow in the USA has beaten the 10000 lie mark in his presidency already. World record even for politicians.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,570
Grendel said:
You really make it up as you go along don’t you. Shall I get Nigel’s autograph for you? Signed photo to put on your bedside table.
Click to expand...

What have I made up?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,571
martcov said:
No no no.......... I think your leader is a contender for that honour... and if you go international, his bedfellow in the USA has beaten the 10000 lie mark in his presidency already. World record even for politicians.
Click to expand...

So you think Nicholas Clegg was an honest man?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,572
Grendel said:
Lol
Click to expand...

No reply then.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,573
This was a post on Twitter that gained a lot of traction from a leave voter

“I’m a die hard Brexiteer, I always vote Libdem at the local election in my area,because Libdems are great local councillors who work hard and keep in touch all year,I will never vote for them at a GE especially now with their national party not really being Liberal or Democratic”

Local elections do not resemble the country’s intentions on Brexit , is the short answer
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,574
skybluetony176 said:
No reply then.
Click to expand...

Look at the video - i know you struggle with technology and links to files - I’m sure Mart will help you - perhaps you can discover the answer together
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,575
skybluetony176 said:
Lib Undems as you call them want a democratic vote on what leave actually means
Click to expand...

No Tony, they want to stop Brexit.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,576
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/harr...Jw1T2PXVkbvgf9_aSASHjDUI2_TXfMBvy86AK4DRkhRnY
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,577
Grendel said:
Look at the video - i know you struggle with technology and links to files - I’m sure Mart will help you - perhaps you can discover the answer together
Click to expand...

I asked you for your opinion. Clearly you don’t have one and it was just something to say.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,578
SIR ERNIE said:
No Tony, they want to stop Brexit.
Click to expand...

They want to give the public an opportunity to change their mind once what leave actually means has been established. The right to change your mind is democracy.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,579
martcov said:
Local elections are not a referendum on the EU. But, there’s no way you can say that the Liberals didn’t have a good result. The fact that people used them as a protest vote and hammered UKIP shows that being 100% remain didn’t frighten voters off. Which it would have done if the will of the people really was purely for Brexit.
Click to expand...
An 8% rise in their share of the vote from the last time these particular elections were held (2015) to just 19% is not that good a result in the context of the national dissatisfaction with the 2 major partie The fact is they normally average around 15-16% in these particular council elections. In fact only takes them back to 2017 levels.
Main gains were for independents which should be a concern for Lib Dems as they still weren't first option for many "protest" voters. Lib Dems campaigned as a Remain protest vote whilst Labour was actually focusing on domestic issues primarily austerity issue.
The 2 main Brexit parties couldn't field candidates ( and they are currently polling around 40% for Euro elections).
UKIP barely fielded any candidates compared to last elections. Also reflects their association as not being just a Brexit party but something more unpleasant and to the far right of British politics.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,580
skybluetony176 said:
They want to give the public an opportunity to change their mind once what leave actually means has been established. The right to change your mind is democracy.
Click to expand...

Well you’ve clearly fallen for it, no surprise there eh Tony.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,581
We need an edited highlights package of this thread.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,582
Grendel said:
So you think Nicholas Clegg was an honest man?
Click to expand...

I don’t think he comes close to Farage or Trump.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,583
Grendel said:
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/harr...Jw1T2PXVkbvgf9_aSASHjDUI2_TXfMBvy86AK4DRkhRnY
Click to expand...

The gist of that is that, as a minority partner in a coalition with your mates, they sold their soul to have some say. Is there a list of the other side of their trade offs? Perhaps not.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,584
Grendel said:
Oh dear Tony dear - no what I said and I thought even a dumbo like you would grasp it - is their Manifesto was to leave and if this is a brexit protest vote it failed badly as most votes went to parties honouring the referendum

Dumb and dumber at it again
Click to expand...

Here it is again just for you Grendull as you seem to have forgotten what you said in a matter of hours. You should probably seek a medical opinion on that.

Aside from highlighting what you said in bold and underlining it your post is unedited so it maintains context. You said it. If you’ve now changed your mind fair play but at least have the dignity to admit it rather than pretending you didn’t say it in the first place.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,585
skybluetony176 said:
Here it is again just for you Grendull as you seem to have forgotten what you said in a matter of hours. You should probably seek a medical opinion on that.

Aside from highlighting what you said in bold and underlining it your post is unedited so it maintains context. You said it. If you’ve now changed your mind fair play but at least have the dignity to admit it rather than pretending you didn’t say it in the first place.
Click to expand...

Yeah I said that - are you drunk?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,586
tisza said:
An 8% rise in their share of the vote from the last time these particular elections were held (2015) to just 19% is not that good a result in the context of the national dissatisfaction with the 2 major partie The fact is they normally average around 15-16% in these particular council elections. In fact only takes them back to 2017 levels.
Main gains were for independents which should be a concern for Lib Dems as they still weren't first option for many "protest" voters. Lib Dems campaigned as a Remain protest vote whilst Labour was actually focusing on domestic issues primarily austerity issue.
The 2 main Brexit parties couldn't field candidates ( and they are currently polling around 40% for Euro elections).
UKIP barely fielded any candidates compared to last elections. Also reflects their association as not being just a Brexit party but something more unpleasant and to the far right of British politics.
Click to expand...

Just a quote from someone else ( a different take ):
„All declared now (20:45)

Tories 3562 (-1332)

Labour 2021 (-81)

LibDems 1344 (+700)

Independents 1044 (+606)

UKIP 31 (-145)

Greens 265 (+194)


LibDems & Greens both out-performed best expectations by a lot.

Labour under-performed by 600, & Tories by 850.

They'll both be panicking.“

The greens are also pro remain. You didn’t include them.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,587
martcov said:
Just a quote from someone else ( a different take ):
„All declared now (20:45)

Tories 3562 (-1332)

Labour 2021 (-81)

LibDems 1344 (+700)

Independents 1044 (+606)

UKIP 31 (-145)

Greens 265 (+194)


LibDems & Greens both out-performed best expectations by a lot.

Labour under-performed by 600, & Tories by 850.

They'll both be panicking.“

The greens are also pro remain. You didn’t include them.
Click to expand...

Who said that?
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,588
martcov said:
The greens are also pro remain. You didn’t include them.
Click to expand...
Greens have a very definite campaign for local elections. Didn't campaign for those wanting to protest 2 main parties or Brexit.
Interested to know whose quote it is.
Labour & those tories wanting a quick, soft Brexit will be panicking.
These elections will soon be forgotten with a Euro election campaign.
On a domestic national level only a complete meltdown (or split tory party) will improve Lib dem fortunes. Although they would take more seats the the independent group could easily end up with a similar % of total vote.
GE would be fought on domestic issues where Lib dems consistently fail to make an impact with the electorate
 
Last edited: May 4, 2019
Reactions: Grendel
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,589
tisza said:
Greens have a very definite campaign for local elections. Didn't campaign for those wanting to protest 2 main parties or Brexit.
Interested to know whose quote it is.
Labour & those tories wanting a quick, soft Brexit will be panicking.
These elections will soon be forgotten with a Euro election campaign.
On a domestic national level only a complete meltdown (or split tory party) will improve Lib dem fortunes. Although they would take more seats the the independent group could easily end up with a similar % of total vote.
GE would be fought on domestic issues where Lib dems consistently fail to make an impact with the electorate
Click to expand...

Yes, but would they get enough to form a Lb Lab coalition? Even if we have left the EU by the next election the story will not be over. There are years of negotiations to come plus probable economic damage to contend with. Remain will become rejoin.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,590
martcov said:
Yes, but would they get enough to form a Lb Lab coalition? Even if we have left the EU by the next election the story will not be over. There are years of negotiations to come plus probable economic damage to contend with. Remain will become rejoin.
Click to expand...
Never happen.
More likely leave to become completely leave as people realize that they don't have a say whilst paying the bill.
EU quite clear that to rejoin UK would have to start at the bottom , no rebate and no veto. Questionable as to whether would be allowed not to have to join Euro.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,591
tisza said:
Never happen.
More likely leave to become completely leave as people realize that they don't have a say whilst paying the bill.
EU quite clear that to rejoin UK would have to start at the bottom , no rebate and no veto. Questionable as to whether would be allowed not to have to join Euro.
Click to expand...

Don’t have a say? In the Parliament or in the EU Council?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,592
skybluetony176 said:
Oh. You mean the two parties who are as split as the rest of the country, can’t get a consensus through parliament, have had numerous MP’s leave to form a new remain party and have largely been branded as traitors to brexit on many forums such as question time every week for at least a year if not longer and most notably in writing on spoiled ballot papers last night. You’re clutching at straws if you’re trying to claim that either is a remain party. They’re split.
Click to expand...
Both the Tories and Labour are remain parties. The problem is the voters. Nobody knows where the majority is with them. So neither party can go all out on remain.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,593
skybluetony176 said:
Funny isn’t it. I always told him his politics was closer to Ferages than mine and he used to take it as an insult and get angry. Faux anger as it turned out. Ferage is the man, apparently.
Click to expand...
Yet you voted for Farage :smuggrin:
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,594
Astute said:
Both the Tories and Labour are remain parties. The problem is the voters. Nobody knows where the majority is with them. So neither party can go all out on remain.
Click to expand...

According to Grendull they’re both leave. Best take it up with him.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2019
  • #35,595
martcov said:
Farage is not raising concerns about non integration, he is sowing division. Blair wasn’t a racist trying to wind people up about immigration to get votes.
Click to expand...
I suppose it is OK for Bliar to have blood on his hands because he is a remainer.....
 
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