The double bind (1 Viewer)

Grendel · Oct 27, 2014

cloughie said:
and who is that?

Well I was being slighty sarcastic as he was I assume born in England but did have shall we say a passion for South Africa and especially cricket and I'm pretty certain lived there when we had our most succesful times.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

cloughie said:
wasn't trying to call you out in any way other than saying we have always been owned by someone and they have had a benefit financially from owning the club

There are different types of benefit. And the 'old' model was wealthy businessman wanting to fellate his ego.

It wasn't the financial gain they got, more the sense of self-importance. And in doing that... they tended to help the club more than hinder it.

Not sure we can say that since Robinson and Richardson tricked Robins into selling his shares... and in the past even if an owner was the wrong side of 'a bit shifty' then you'd have a fighting chance of the next one being the right side.

bigfatronssba · Oct 27, 2014

Next question then NW, assuming Wasps end up with all the Ricoh, how would you feel attending matches knowing your ticket money is going towards the rent which will go to the franchise?

Respect your view completely on franchising of course, just want to understand where your coming from.

skybluetony176 · Oct 27, 2014

Stop supporting the club if Wasps take over. What a bunch of drama queens. What happened to supporting the club not the owners?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

bigfatronssba said:
Next question then NW, assuming Wasps end up with all the Ricoh, how would you feel attending matches knowing your ticket money is going towards the rent which will go to the franchise?

Respect your view completely on franchising of course, just want to understand where your coming from.

Badly.

But then, to a degree, that wouldn't be the club's choice on who their landlords are, and I'd want to see some movement on their own ground as (ha!) promised.

Lack of movement on said ground would, of course, be SISU's fault (unless sites were blocked... but then they'd have to exist first!)

And this is it, the avenues of 'escape' tighten... the small chinks of light get plugged by a massive great arsehole.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
What happened to supporting the club not the owners?

FC United and AFC Wimbledon are fine examples of why the club shouldn't be supported at all costs, whatever they do or whoever their owners are. Sure, some were OK with going to MK, sure some (many?) tolerate the Glazers.

but there is an outlet, the sun streams through and offers a joyous alternative.

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

Grendel said:
I would have applauded them. Sisu couldn't even do that properly. About as ruthless as a paper bag attacking an iron block.

You are just plain a wrongun.
But still make me laugh sometimes

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

Otis said:
I should report this post for racism.

Brilliant

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'll stop supporting CCFC and leave this board.

Unlike others however, I won't hang around for an eternity saying how I'm leaving, I'll just do it.

Don't see why you have to get your arse in your hands with us. We don't own wasps

Just go to the match support the team and wear a wasps out t shirt. Like everyone who doesn't agree with SISU as owners are told to do.

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

Grendel said:
They won't and if they did if walk away as I have moral standards.

You are on the wind up

Damage a kids charity do anything at all costs if it helps CCFC.

Yet if wasps buy CCFC and it helps CCFC that is your moral line in the sand.

A step to far that consortium who shafted a rugby club buys us?

Otis · Oct 27, 2014

mds said:
Fuck Off!!!!!

Touchy. :slap:

Did you read your post back at all? :claping hands:

Grendel · Oct 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
You are on the wind up

Damage a kids charity do anything at all costs if it helps CCFC.

Yet if wasps buy CCFC and it helps CCFC that is your moral line in the sand.

A step to far that consortium who shafted a rugby club buys us?

Read your post back and try and comprehend the dichotomy of your argument

shy_tall_knight · Oct 27, 2014

read WASP's history have had a nomadic existence for years, unlike a football clear they are not clearly associated with a particular area of London, their situation has no comparison with the CCFC move to Northampton. Also I don't care for WASPS fans heartless as that may be just being honest I also don't care much about Cov rugby either they have a good history but have been drifting for years. I care for CCFC.

mds · Oct 27, 2014

Otis said:
Touchy. :slap:

Did you read your post back at all? :claping hands:

mds said:
Fuck Off!!!!!

Edit - dont know how may times i looked at it and missed it

I`ll stick with my first answer.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

shy_tall_knight said:
read WASP's history have had a nomadic existence for years

Ohhh no they haven't.

mds · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Ohhh no they haven't.

Waiting for Judy.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

mds said:
Waiting for Judy.

If nomadic is staying in the same ground for near 75 years, and the same city for 135 years...

olderskyblue · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'll stop supporting CCFC and leave this board.

Unlike others however, I won't hang around for an eternity saying how I'm leaving, I'll just do it.

Isn't this thread just you saying your leaving, you know, just like the "others" ?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

olderskyblue said:
Isn't this thread just you saying your leaving, you know, just like the "others" ?

Nah, it's me hoping someone can rationalise a way out that doesn't involve our owners suddenly becoming altruistic, and gaining a desire to build state of the art sporting facilities on Cov & Warks cricket ground or wherever...

I do leaving with more style

lordsummerisle · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
If nomadic is staying in the same ground for near 75 years, and the same city for 135 years...

They're like really shit gypsies.

olderskyblue · Oct 27, 2014

Oh, and NW, If I had bought the club with my massive Euromillions jackpot, I was going to offer you a place on the board, with a huge salary (even more than grendel gets), but, you'd have to attend matches mate... even if we co owned the Ricoh with Wasps..

Would you accept the job??

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

olderskyblue said:
Oh, and NW, If I had bought the club with my massive Euromillions jackpot, I was going to offer you a place on the board, with a huge salary (even more than grendel gets), but, you'd have to attend matches mate... even if we co owned the Ricoh with Wasps..

Would you accept the job??

I never said I couldn't be bought!

olderskyblue · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
I never said I couldn't be bought!

Ah good, you can sit next to one of my other board members.... Uncle Joe..

Calista · Oct 28, 2014

NW, I hugely respect the fact that you are opposing the principle of moving Wasps to Coventry - but I think it’s a mistake to beat yourself up about it.

I’ve looked online for the outrage from Wasps fans that you might expect, given the scale of the change that’s happening to them. Yes, there are some for whom it’s a kick in the teeth, but there’s also a surprising amount of acceptance and positivity. To give you an idea, a Wasps forum post asking for ideas on smoothing the move to the Ricoh has mainly been getting lots of helpful suggestions (and no abuse – imagine that Nick). Someone is “gutted” that they won’t be able to make the Ricoh open day because it clashes with pony club. And the majority of posts still seem to be earnest discussions about the rugby team, which players they can afford to bring in and who should play at fly half etc.

I suspect the reason is that Wasps are not deeply grounded in a geographical community in the way that most sports teams are. Wimbledon moving to Milton Keynes took a club from the place where it DEFINITELY belonged, as did moving Coventry City to Northampton. And if (say) Bedford Rugby Club was moving to Coventry it would be 100% unacceptable - but with Wasps it’s far more complicated. They don’t really belong in a specific place.

Unfortunately you can’t just magic up a stadium in London, and some people say that the team shouldn’t move back to London at all, because it would be unfair on the new established fan base in Wycombe!

Shifting a team 80 miles north isn’t right, and I’m not belittling the effect it will have on people. But in my view they aren’t being exactly “uprooted”, and many of the fans seem to be fully on board.
So tell me where EXACTLY Wasps should be located – and if the answer is “somewhere in the west or north London area” I hope you may see my point.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Oct 28, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Nah, it's me hoping someone can rationalise a way out that doesn't involve our owners suddenly becoming altruistic, and gaining a desire to build state of the art sporting facilities on Cov & Warks cricket ground or wherever...

I do leaving with more style

I'll try......

Its football.....modern football....which has been shit for ages......
Over-priced tickets in plastic flat-pack grounds in retail parks, being told to sit down like naughty school boys, no smoking, no swearing, over-priced shit beer & pies, surrounded by chubby folk happy to be style-free walking billboards for "Wonga" or "Chevrolet" or "City Link". Players with no allegiance to the clubs they represent, Overpaid over-hyped, & more & more often, over here.....
A massively de-valued product with a rapidly inflating price tag....Media saturation of meaningless games.....and then there's us...Coventry City FC....skint, homeless & about to become totally hopeless....

Football should be a simple pleasure & distraction from the harsh realities of modern life.......If it no longer provides you with any joy, happiness, stress relief or camaraderie, then quit going.....

but don't quit just because the bullshit & business of it all doesn't sit right......because Professional football in England has been morally bankrupt, sick & corrupt since Murdoch & his team of cunts from SKY re-modelled it.....you should have quit in 1992:wave:

duffer · Oct 28, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Fair play on that one. I am not having a go by the way but I don't think this wasps thing is as bad as some make out. I think about 1000 wasps fans was it, signed a petition.
Cov rugby club hardly kicked up a stink.
A banner at their match when they found out about the proposal was a big as the protest got. (Wasps)
It is down to the governing body of rugby to manage franchising in their sport.
The job of Coventry council is safeguarding jobs protecting a council owned stadium and bring money and regeneration into the city.
People have backed the NFL thing saying well franchise happens in America (doesnt make it right) From what I can see so far rugby fans seems pretty happy to go anywhere for top level rugby.
I wouldn't make yourself the moral bastion of a protest over what happened to wasps when their own fans don't seem that bothered. Plus fans of other clubs that live within our region are likely to attend.

Fans of Wasps are bothered - it's simply not correct or fair to suggest otherwise. You can read their boards, or simply put yourself in their shoes. Some will follow Wasps up here, many, many more will not. Rugby fans are not happy to 'go anywhere' to watch top flight rugby - look at the attendances of rugby's latest franchise, London Welsh for evidence of that.

Coventry RFC didn't kick up a stink because it was presented to them as a done deal - again it's a pretence to suggest that they 'welcome' Wasps. They're just going to do their best now with the hand that they've been dealt. As a fan of CRFC, take it from me, the club have been shafted - it's just there's not much point in complaining.

As for the council protecting jobs and encouraging regeneration, the simple fact is that even a moderately successful football club would draw in far more money and prestige than Wasps. If what the council has done here results in the club either leaving the city, or falling further into the abyss whilst still at the Ricoh, then this will be an almost entirely negative result for the city.

Similarly if Wasps go under, or bobble along at their current level of support then that's hardly a big win for the city either. In fact if they go under and can't pay the £13.4m mortgage, then the council takes a big hit - it's worth noting that they already seem to have written off a million pounds to sweeten the deal.

In fact, in terms of a definite unambiguous result, the only thing the council will have done successfully is washed their hands of having to deal with SISU. Whether that's worth handing ACL to an out-of-town franchise rugby team is a matter of opinion - but to me at least, it isn't.

spider_ricoh · Oct 28, 2014

I've been amazed at how many of the negative responses to the Wasps deal have been based on "franchising" etc - to be honest I couldn't care less about them or Cov Rugby - as Cov fans the only thing that matters is that SISU are prevented from getting a share of the Ricoh, prompting them to do one.

It's clear that SISU themselves were the barrier to the council selling the share to CCFC.

Nick · Oct 28, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
I've been amazed at how many of the negative responses to the Wasps deal have been based on "franchising" etc - to be honest I couldn't care less about them or Cov Rugby - as Cov fans the only thing that matters is that SISU are prevented from getting a share of the Ricoh, prompting them to do one.

It's clear that SISU themselves were the barrier to the council selling the share to CCFC.

Any proof it will get rid of them or just your opinion?

italiahorse · Oct 28, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
I've been amazed at how many of the negative responses to the Wasps deal have been based on "franchising" etc - to be honest I couldn't care less about them or Cov Rugby - as Cov fans the only thing that matters is that SISU are prevented from getting a share of the Ricoh, prompting them to do one.

It's clear that SISU themselves were the barrier to the council selling the share to CCFC.

I thought Sisu were building a new stadium ? Why would the council offer it to someone who does not want it?

Having said that. I think Sisu have made unreasonable offers over time based on the fact that the stadium is worth nothing without them.

spider_ricoh · Oct 28, 2014

Nick said:
Any proof it will get rid of them or just your opinion?

Well it's impossible to prove either way, but all the logic would point to that. They're a hedge fund trying to make money - getting the ground was key to that. Without the ground they have no way of making money - why would they stay around?

It's amazing how few people seem to grasp this basic logic.

italiahorse · Oct 28, 2014

Nick said:
Any proof it will get rid of them or just your opinion?

I would prefer Sisu/CCFC to take 50% of the stadium as there is safety in numbers and it could be a win win situation.

Unsure though, based on their track record, that Wasps would want to work with them. Would you ?

Covstu · Oct 28, 2014

We cannot do anything about the Wasps situation, they are here to stay but we can at least have some influence on our future and that it owning a 50% stake in ACL. This was we are on equal footing when discussing anything to do with the ground.

Cov RFC will get shafted over the years but to be honest they have not really helped themselves and alot have embraced this move for some reason. If their own fans are not willing to fight then not many others will do it for them.

shy_tall_knight · Oct 28, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Ohhh no they haven't.

From what I can gather moved Finchley Road to Sudbury to Loftus Toad to Wycombe (also played at the Ricoh) haven't been based in London since 2002. also need to point out don't come with any moral high ground on this don't care for WASPS or their fans care for CCFC only. As for Cov RFC have been drifting for years and also don't care too much for them either

Covstu · Oct 28, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
I've been amazed at how many of the negative responses to the Wasps deal have been based on "franchising" etc - to be honest I couldn't care less about them or Cov Rugby - as Cov fans the only thing that matters is that SISU are prevented from getting a share of the Ricoh, prompting them to do one.

It's clear that SISU themselves were the barrier to the council selling the share to CCFC.

or you could look at it the other way and say they need 50% to have something of total value to sell and then 'do one'??

Sick Boy · Oct 28, 2014

Some of the comments on this thread deserve a non leagur football team. Their hatred of sisu is bigger than their love of ccfc.

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