The Council and John Mutton

covboy1987

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2013
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Might be wrong but get a feeling from reading threads over the last few weeks that the council and particularly John Mutton are not very popular with quite a large majority? and wondered why is this so?From my perspective the council has gone along with everyone's wishes so far including taking the risk of actually putting half the money up to build the stadium and saving the day some years ago, they also recently rescued ACL as if ACL had gone bust would have made the likes of SISU stronger, and this loan was given under tremendous pressure from the rest of the Coventry taxpayers. The city fans only currently number around 3% of the actual taxpayers so it does take some balls to plough another £14 million into what some non city fan taxpayers might feel is a complete waste of taxpayers money. John mutton who seems to lead the council on this subject like him or hate him is a city fan and i believe when the time is right which is hopefully Haskell era the council will sell all of its shares as i do not believe haskall will be interested in a purchase if this is not the case. Once again it was John Mutton and the council showing the way again recently dining Haskell in a box and if you asked Joe Elliot i am sure he would agree the council support is critical to negotiations as theyl have obviously washed their hands of SISU- I believe we should be supporting John Mutton and the council at this critical stage so give them bit of slack and support and judge him and the council when the dust settles. Although a few councils have supported projects such as ours one being Man City these are few and far between so maybe they should be given them a little credit
 

dekker

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Feb 5, 2013
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because the council (acl) are a bit gormless and, whilst meaning well, keep making themselves look stupid and making the situation worse for the club....see recent administration debacle for clear evidence of this.

i don't particularly blame the council...they're just not cut out to take SISU on legally without being caught with their pants down.
 

Otis

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Mar 26, 2011
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It's idiots on the council who talk of the club not having ownership of the stadium.

Any fool can see that without the ground the club is just going to die a slow, lingering death.
 

fernandopartridge

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Dec 9, 2011
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You have to remember that Mutton hasn't got his position due to any business acumen. He's an elected representative, anybody could do that job.
 

Colin1883

Member
Mar 21, 2013
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City fans ain't the only people to use the Ricoh...

Gyms / restaurants / conferences / gambling etc... Anybody know how many jobs have been created by the complex?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
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City fans ain't the only people to use the Ricoh...

Gyms / restaurants / conferences / gambling etc... Anybody know how many jobs have been created by the complex?
No but without the football ground it would not be there
 

skybluesam66

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2011
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i know we are a long way off - but if we got back to the premier league it would not only be 10000 fans that would benefit, but the whole city economy

you could argue . why build leisure facilities, why build shopping centres, why build houses

you are supporting the local economy and that is why the council should be more of an enabler than a blocker(albeit maybe not with sisu)
 

Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2011
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I could be wrong but its not actualy tax payers money they use is it? I think it comes from a central fund and theirs interest being paid so the the council funds will have more in at the end of the loan. I think the reason we are all pissed off with Mutton and his men is their is no plan to take the city as a whole forward, the club is a general reflection of this situation. Whats attractive about coming to Coventry, its a ten minute walk for me and my family to the city centre but theirs nothing their to attract my kids or wife to shop their so I am always driving to Solihull, Birmingham and Incester. We have poor roads, crap architecture, no cafe culture or nightlife. We are Skegness on an industrial scale, everything operates on a shoe string and until someone has the foresight to open up the city centre to make us a decent place to visit we will get no where, we hit the headlines for emails about Thatcher and flags at half mast not about attracting familys and profesionals to visit our safe,family freindly attractive city. Rant over and skyblue till i die
 

rupert_bear

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Nov 14, 2012
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In time when the full story and facts come out, people, fans will be very grateful to the council, both political groups, and to John Mutton in particular who has driven this initiative. Money given to ACL is to be repaid at an interest rate so long term that will make ccc money. Had the Ricoh gone into the hands of our present owners we, thats the football club, wouldn.t get a cent out of it, our owners would and i suspect the Ricoh would of been sold on to a third party equally with no interest in our football club. This stance by ccc hopefully gaurantees some time in the near future the football club will buy back the 50% Higgs share and maybe the other half too.
There are just people on here who refuse to see this, why ? God knows.

People of Coventry may well be pissed off as Vick from Alicante says with Mutton and the council over the running of the city, that is seperate from the football club/sisu/ Ricoh issues and the time and place to sought that out is in May at the ballot box
 
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fernandopartridge

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Dec 9, 2011
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The European Commission invested as much money into the stadium as Coventry City Council. That is a fact.
 

torchomatic

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Feb 25, 2008
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It's true though. Anyone can walk in off the street and become a Councillor. You don't need any business acumen or any particular skill apart from being persuasive and being able to talk the talk.

Like to see you try
 

SkyBlueScottie

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2011
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Might be wrong but get a feeling from reading threads over the last few weeks that the council and particularly John Mutton are not very popular with quite a large majority? and wondered why is this so?From my perspective the council has gone along with everyone's wishes so far including taking the risk of actually putting half the money up to build the stadium and saving the day some years ago, they also recently rescued ACL as if ACL had gone bust would have made the likes of SISU stronger, and this loan was given under tremendous pressure from the rest of the Coventry taxpayers. The city fans only currently number around 3% of the actual taxpayers so it does take some balls to plough another £14 million into what some non city fan taxpayers might feel is a complete waste of taxpayers money. John mutton who seems to lead the council on this subject like him or hate him is a city fan and i believe when the time is right which is hopefully Haskell era the council will sell all of its shares as i do not believe haskall will be interested in a purchase if this is not the case.
Its now widely known that the council did not pay 50% towards the building of the Ricoh. Rescuing ACL is actually of little importance to the football club. I believe there are members of the council on the record as saying the football should never own the stadium due to the mess they made of Highfield Road.

What this mess of Highfield Road is I am not sure, I presume they mean the selling of the ground before leaving if so they are well aware those people are no longer involved with the club.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
I'm pretty sure the club shouldn't be able to sell/mortgage the Arena. Doing such would be a sign of financial mismanagement, something that the club needs to avoid in future.

Having said that they need as much income as possible to make the more successful, but to do that they have to buy them & invest in creating new ones. No freebies.

Owning the Arena and having additional income streams from the Arena development are not the same thing.
 

japandy

New Member
Mar 9, 2013
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[Excellent comments but domt you think Cllr Mutton is personalising the whole issue too much?


QUOTE=rupert_bear;421979]In time when the full story and facts come out, people, fans will be very grateful to the council, both political groups, and to John Mutton in particular who has driven this initiative. Money given to ACL is to be repaid at an interest rate so long term that will make ccc money. Had the Ricoh gone into the hands of our present owners we, thats the football club, wouldn.t get a cent out of it, our owners would and i suspect the Ricoh would of been sold on to a third party equally with no interest in our football club. This stance by ccc hopefully gaurantees some time in the near future the football club will buy back the 50% Higgs share and maybe the other half too.
There are just people on here who refuse to see this, why ? God knows.

People of Coventry may well be pissed off as Vick from Alicante says with Mutton and the council over the running of the city, that is seperate from the football club/sisu/ Ricoh issues and the time and place to sought that out is in May at the ballot box[/QUOTE]
 

Godiva

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Mar 23, 2011
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I'm pretty sure the club shouldn't be able to sell/mortgage the Arena. Doing such would be a sign of financial mismanagement...
A mortgage is a loan secured in the property.
ACL have a loan of some £15m that you can classify as a mortgage.
Have ACL by taking the loan shown sign of financial mismanagement?
 

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
Nov 14, 2012
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[Excellent comments but domt you think Cllr Mutton is personalising the whole issue too much?


QUOTE=rupert_bear;421979]In time when the full story and facts come out, people, fans will be very grateful to the council, both political groups, and to John Mutton in particular who has driven this initiative. Money given to ACL is to be repaid at an interest rate so long term that will make ccc money. Had the Ricoh gone into the hands of our present owners we, thats the football club, wouldn.t get a cent out of it, our owners would and i suspect the Ricoh would of been sold on to a third party equally with no interest in our football club. This stance by ccc hopefully gaurantees some time in the near future the football club will buy back the 50% Higgs share and maybe the other half too.
There are just people on here who refuse to see this, why ? God knows.

People of Coventry may well be pissed off as Vick from Alicante says with Mutton and the council over the running of the city, that is seperate from the football club/sisu/ Ricoh issues and the time and place to sought that out is in May at the ballot box
[/QUOTE]Yes, but that is what politicians do, but that shouldn't mask the important issue and that is what would our present owners do if they owned or even part owned the Ricoh
 

Tank Top

New Member
Jul 7, 2009
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Given the fact that Sisu/Finance have been pursued by someone or other, for non payment of Bills owing, unsubmitted accounts etc on an almost weekly timescale,
not forgetting false assurances to fans, which there have been several, would anyone in their most vivid imagination be comfortable with SISU/Finance adding The Ricoh Arena to their portfolio, Knowing what we know, suffering what we have suffered, watching THE SKY BLUES go down the tubes on their watch, Does anyone think that the football club would benefit in reality, if Sisu got their hands on the stadium complex, I trust them as far as I can heave them, Stuart Linnell answering a question by a very good caller "Steve" Commented "It depends on who you believe, "The council or Sisu," he has got to be Joking, If Sisu are comfortable with their position why don't they provide a spokesperson to redress the Balance, I think we all know why don't we...
 
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Jack Griffin

Guest
A mortgage is a loan secured in the property.
ACL have a loan of some £15m that you can classify as a mortgage.
Have ACL by taking the loan shown sign of financial mismanagement?
That loan was a fraction of the value of the project & taken out to get the thing built.
I was talking about a stupid move like selling the ground to cover a gap in funds while 'taking a punt' and then renting it back.
Or do you think what happened to Highfield Road is something that shouldn't be guarded against.
 
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skyblue2k

Guest
The council invested £10 million into the building of the stadium, I believe ACL paid £800k in rent before taking up the option to pay the remainder of the rent in advance to the Council of £21 Million. So by this stage the council were up about £11.8 million in profit and owned the freehold on the stadium and surrounding land. They have now paid off the Bank who ACL took the loan from of approx £14 million.

So by my reckoning the Council are out of pocket to the tune of £2.2 million, Which ACL will now pay back to the council monthly with a more favourable interest rate.

The Council have only been covering their own back and i am guessing the Council will be back in profit very quickly

This has been pulled from a council report i read on here a few weeks ago, if i am wrong please correct this information.
 
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Godiva

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Mar 23, 2011
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That loan was a fraction of the value of the project & taken out to get the thing built.
I was talking about a stupid move like selling the ground to cover a gap in funds while 'taking a punt' and then renting it back.
Or do you think what happened to Highfield Road is something that shouldn't be guarded against.
I think the club should own the stadium operation and profit from everything that happens there. In short I think the club and ACL should be one company.
I don't care who owns the bricks, mortar and freehold - the council can sit on that forever as far as I am concerned.
Just be sure the arrangement the club have will be as good as the one the ccc have with ACL when ACL are merged into the club.
And when that happen, I see absolutely no reason why the ccc loan cannot follow ACL into the club.
Following your original post that can be seen as mortgaging the stadium, but is clearly not a sign of mismanagement. Not in my book anyway.

This has been my opinion since the rent debacle started - and it will continue to be my opinion whatever happens through the next months and whoever owns us on 'the other side'.
 

skybluegnome

Member
Jan 15, 2013
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I remember when the Ricoh first opened the battle that the football club had with the council to erect the CCFC Crest, if they'd had their way all we would have got was a very small crest over each turnstile.. ...that about says it all as to how they felt about the club way back then..
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Apr 16, 2010
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I remember when the Ricoh first opened the battle that the football club had with the council to erect the CCFC Crest, if they'd had their way all we would have got was a very small crest over each turnstile.. ...that about says it all as to how they felt about the club way back then..
got any articles etc related to that I could look at skybluegnome ? Did a quick search didnt turn anything up, would like to see what happened . Cheers
 

SydneySkyBlue

Member
Nov 4, 2010
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It's idiots on the council who talk of the club not having ownership of the stadium.

Any fool can see that without the ground the club is just going to die a slow, lingering death.
The stadium has to be in the hands of the right people though. They are doing the right thing in not handing it over to the current incumbents.
 

torchomatic

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Feb 25, 2008
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OSB58. I have found a couple of things:

CONGRATULATIONS Paul Fletcher in making a stand against the council and putting up the Sky Blues' crest on the Ricoh Arena.

I am so pleased that finally somebody from our club has answered the wishes of many true City fans.

The council should support Mr Fletcher's venture in trying to make the Ricoh feel more like the home of Coventry City Football Club.

The past few years have been tough for the club but I do believe that the present management is doing what they can to try to get the club back to a level where it has the ability to put in a strong challenge for promotion, probably not this season but certainly next, and this will be considerably helped if it has a stadium full of proud fans getting behind their team.

Keep up the good work Mr Fletcher. But don't forget to mention to our council the pedestrian and traffic problems outside the ground.



and

COVENTRY City Council won't be squaring up to the Sky Blues over a club badge put up on the side of the Ricoh Arena in Rowleys Green.

The authority has blown the whistle on taking any action against the football club and given the thumbs up to the badge.

Managing director Paul Fletcher had feared a backlash from the city council after the five metre-high badge went up on Friday.

But John McGuigan (right), the city council's director of city development, says he has no problem with the famous club crest.

Mr McGuigan said today: "It is not a problem to us.

"The sign is in the right place and is the sort of proposition that we would have supported anyway but we are annoyed that we haven't been asked.

"We have a commitment from the football club that no more sig-nage goes up at the Ricoh without discussion with us."

Coventry City's managing director, Paul Fletcher, yesterday admitted he had ignored planning rules by putting up the sign.

But he insisted the club was meeting supporters' demands for the badge to be erected at the pounds 113m ground in Rowleys Green.

The five-and-a-half metre high motif went up on the side of the stadium, at the edge of the Marconi and Jewson stands, facing the A444, on Friday.

The arena is managed by Arena Coventry Ltd, a joint venture company consisting of the Alan Higgs Charity and Coventry City Council.

Mr Fletcher said: "I have given the council my assurance that we won't be putting up any further signage without speaking to them.

"I am delighted that the council have taken this view and I would not have taken this risk had I thought it would cause them any embarrassment."



got any articles etc related to that I could look at skybluegnome ? Did a quick search didnt turn anything up, would like to see what happened . Cheers
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Apr 16, 2010
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Cheers Torch :)............. so a bit of a storm in a tea cup then ?

Normal planning rules ..... large signage needs permission

Was told some time back that the club turned down a trophy cabinet at the Ricoh when they moved in

Never has been an easy relationship I guess
 
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Sky Blue Pete

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Nov 24, 2012
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It's true though. Anyone can walk in off the street and become a Councillor. You don't need any business acumen or any particular skill apart from being persuasive and being able to talk the talk.
The commitment by john mutton into his city is huge and has been for many years. I recognise anyone can stand, not everyone can have done what he has for his city
 

TurkeyTrot

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Nov 12, 2012
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got any articles etc related to that I could look at skybluegnome ? Did a quick search didnt turn anything up, would like to see what happened . Cheers
There was talk that the council had objected to a crest being put up but I don't think is was about the crest, I think that got mixed up with the council road signs for the Ricoh not being a football as the council said it was more than a football stadium.
Paul Fletcher had the crests put up anyway without planning permission and the council said they didn't have a problem with the crests and left them up rather than make the club take them down.
 

skybluegnome

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Jan 15, 2013
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There was talk that the council had objected to a crest being put up but I don't think is was about the crest, I think that got mixed up with the council road signs for the Ricoh not being a football as the council said it was more than a football stadium.
Paul Fletcher had the crests put up anyway without planning permission and the council said they didn't have a problem with the crests and left them up rather than make the club take them down.
Unfortunately not...I just know it was a battle. in the end Paul Fletcher got a man an a crane one night, very late and had it put up (I nearly crashed my car on the way to work the next morning with the shock of seeing it there finally). I understand his theory was that once the crest was up it would be rather difficult to take it down. He did get his wrists slapped for it..You are correct about the road signs, they refused to put a football on any of the signs for the Ricoh....It's interesting how quickly the bloody parrots went up when the Casino moved in...not problem with that it seemed.
 

Grendel

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Sep 19, 2011
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The commitment by john mutton into his city is huge and has been for many years. I recognise anyone can stand, not everyone can have done what he has for his city
What has he done for the City?

Three things about Mutton are huge

His ego
His Belly
His Mouth

Sadly his IQ is not