The club needs to hold the freehold. (1 Viewer)

mrtrench · Dec 17, 2013

Would be interested in why people believe this to be true. I cannot think of a single reason why freehold ownership would be necessary

I also believe that the club will never hold the freehold under SISU. I recall Tim Fisher saying that it would probably be owned by another SISU subsidiary but cannot find that quotation. Can anyone find it?
If that is true, why do people continue to argue that the Council / ACL should sell? The club would be no better off switching landlords. Indeed one would expect that the opposite could be true - moving from a landlord that genuinely cares about Coventry to one that genuinely cares about profit.

We'll_live_and_die · Dec 17, 2013

Necessary .......No. Beneficial.........Yes.

mrtrench · Dec 17, 2013

Fine Rich, then explain to me what benefits freehold ownership has over leasehold - for the club that is.

SkyBlueScottie · Dec 17, 2013

I think thats a question all fans want understand.

However to claim that the council and ACL care about Coventry is simply not true..... They only care about the club when they can pay a rent which covers the mortgage on the building.

bigfatronssba · Dec 17, 2013

SkyBlueScottie said:
I think thats a question all fans want understand.

However to claim that the council and ACL care about Coventry is simply not true..... They only care about the club when they can pay a rent which covers the mortgage on the building.

I think when the OP refers to Coventry he's on about the city as a whole, not the club.

Captain Dart · Dec 17, 2013

If owning the freehold was of the utmost importance why didn't it come up until recently?

The lost fan · Dec 17, 2013

Posted a SIMILAR thread last week ???? For some Reason Nick locked it ? And Hill83 mocked it !!! ???????????????????????????????????????

mark82 · Dec 17, 2013

The lost fan said:
Posted a SIMILAR thread last week ???? For some Reason Nick locked it ? And Hills83 mocked it !!! ???????????????????????????????????????

Maybe because the same question is asked at least once a week?

The lost fan · Dec 17, 2013

mark82 said:
Maybe because the same question is asked at least once a week?

Oh dear looks like this will get locked then ???

skybluesam66 · Dec 17, 2013

they need the freehold because sepalla has no interest in ccfc, and the freehold will give her maximum potential for onward sale

hill83 · Dec 17, 2013

The lost fan said:
Posted a SIMILAR thread last week ???? For some Reason Nick locked it ? And Hill83 mocked it !!! ???????????????????????????????????????

Ha ha, altough this is a repeated thread this is a properly worded question open for debate, which I have no problem with. when comparing it to your thread however:

"Even if the Council sold the stadium to Sisu Do you honestly think the football side would be better off ! Off course not they would milk all the gate receipts and tv money away , knowing full well a good few would still go and watch ... They have no interest in the football just the money they can earn !"

Also bear in mind I didn't ask for your thread to be closed, so get over it.

shmmeee · Dec 17, 2013

Rich said:
Necessary .......No. Beneficial.........Yes.

Why?

Why is it so hard for anyone to answer this question? It's kinda the crux of the pro-Sisu argument, yet it's biggest supporters can't answer the most basic question.

hill83 · Dec 17, 2013

I can't answer if they actually need it or not as I don't know enough about it. But as far as I know if Sisu do own the freehold they then have control over the area as well as the club. Which would be shit, so I'm against them getting it.

bigfatronssba · Dec 17, 2013

The only small benefit of owning the Freehold is that they wont have to renegotiate the Leasehold in 50-100 years.

However that's still a pretty lame reason to own it. A bit like moving to the CO-OP in town purely because it saves you the trip to see Father Christmas once a year.

Monners · Dec 17, 2013

The only benefi would be if Sisu placed the ownership with the club, wihc would then own an asset. They won't do this though, as they only have an interest in maximising profit for investors, which currently doesn't invovle anything to do with the football side of things.

blueflint · Dec 17, 2013

necessary no beneficial not necessarily

The lost fan · Dec 17, 2013

hill83 said:
Ha ha, altough this is a repeated thread this is a properly worded question open for debate, which I have no problem with. when comparing it to your thread however:

"Even if the Council sold the stadium to Sisu Do you honestly think the football side would be better off ! Off course not they would milk all the gate receipts and tv money away , knowing full well a good few would still go and watch ... They have no interest in the football just the money they can earn !"

Also bear in mind I didn't ask for your thread to be closed, so get over it.

Muppet springs to mind !!

blend · Dec 17, 2013

I believe it is business at it's most savage. My view is that Joy says we won't negotiate, puts in a derisory offer, continues to distress ACL until they make her an offer or fold. She knows that the freehold isn't on the table, but the point she is effectively saying 'you ran us out of town, you cost us 10 points, I don't bargain, here's my offer, what you gonna do?!'. All Plan A - just my opinion btw.

torchomatic · Dec 17, 2013

Don't worry, ACL won't fold. They have a healthy business remember and they are going to get a new sports team in if they can't get their beloved Sky Blues back.

blend said:
I believe it is business at it's most savage. My view is that Joy says we won't negotiate, puts in a derisory offer, continues to distress ACL until they make her an offer or fold. She knows that the freehold isn't on the table, but the point she is effectively saying 'you ran us out of town, you cost us 10 points, I don't bargain, here's my offer, what you gonna do?!'. All Plan A - just my opinion btw.

6 Generations · Dec 17, 2013

skybluesam66 said:
they need the freehold because sepalla has no interest in ccfc, and the freehold will give her maximum potential for onward sale

Bingo!!

lewys33 · Dec 17, 2013

torchomatic said:
Don't worry, ACL won't fold. They have a healthy business remember and they are going to get a new sports team in if they can't get their beloved Sky Blues back.

When did ACL say anything about their "beloved" sky blues?

Why are we talking about ACL when they have nothing to do with CCFC??

torchomatic · Dec 17, 2013

Sorry getting mixed up with Lucas. Obviously ACL and CCC are totally, totally, totally, totally separate.

lewys33 said:
When did ACL say anything about their "beloved" sky blues?

Why are we talking about ACL when they have nothing to do with CCFC??

skybluetony176 · Dec 17, 2013

from what i can tell the Club gets no extra benefit from the freehold over what they would get from the leasehold, its sisu's investors that benefit. its also been hinted at from timmy that the club wont actually hold either. so i guess whatever happens the club will be paying rent, the terms of which are not currently known and as i pointed out in another thread we may end up on a peppercorn rent with access to F & B but will the management fee's remain the same? presumably as the mess of companies that sisu inherited that they keep telling us about is now "sorted" the management fee's will be coming down anyway.

here's the thing. how hard would it be for sisu to explain to the fans what the situation would be should they aquire the freehold. surely if this is going to be favourable to the club it would be an easy PR win for them in winning over the sisu doubter's. Because they havent its only leaving me with doubt and worry.

sky blue john · Dec 17, 2013

Sisu will only except or purchase freehold on the condition that its CCC responsibility Acl are out of the equation. And Sisu expect to get the freehold for 4-6million !!!!

lewys33 · Dec 17, 2013

They need the freehold because that way it gets ACL out of the picture (according to Fisher - said it is up to CCC/Higgs what happens to ACL - I am guessing the 40 odd year lease just stops). The freehold would also mean you can take loans out against the equity?

James Smith · Dec 17, 2013

skybluesam66 said:
they need the freehold because sepalla has no interest in ccfc, and the freehold will give her maximum potential for onward sale

Yeah that sadly appears to be it, I can't see there's much of a benefit for the the club. RFC has claimed this is vital but when asked for a reason why he disappears.

Astute · Dec 17, 2013

torchomatic said:
Sorry getting mixed up with Lucas. Obviously ACL and CCC are totally, totally, totally, totally separate.

So the academy go back to a Higg's property because SISUE won't have anything to do with ACL?

Explain why Timothy will tell you that there are totally, totally, totally, totally different parts of Higg's?

lordsummerisle · Dec 17, 2013

Astute said:
So the academy go back to a Higg's property because SISUE won't have anything to do with ACL?

Explain why Timothy will tell you that there are totally, totally, totally, totally different parts of Higg's?

PWKH has explained many times on here that they are totally, totally, totally different entities.

tuousis · Dec 17, 2013

Rich said:
Necessary .......No. Beneficial.........Yes.

Benefit to who,I wonder. not the club.

James Smith · Dec 17, 2013

sky blue john said:
Sisu will only except or purchase freehold on the condition that its CCC responsibility Acl are out of the equation. And Sisu expect to get the freehold for 4-6million !!!!

Yeah Sisu don't seem keen to take on obtaining the Higgs share themselves. The charity don't have to sell to Sisu do they and I think Joy knows this only too well. So rather than have to force the charity out - which even for Sisu would be seen as negative publicity, tell the council they have to do it.

The prospect of taking the charity to court to get their shares is probably not going to go down well. It might well get more media attention than the Guardian and Times articles have and might appear in the business rather than the sports sections.

James Smith · Dec 17, 2013

lewys33 said:
They need the freehold because that way it gets ACL out of the picture (according to Fisher - said it is up to CCC/Higgs what happens to ACL - I am guessing the 40 odd year lease just stops). The freehold would also mean you can take loans out against the equity?

No it doesn't get ACL out of the picture they've still got the lease and according to PWKH despite the loss of the club business is improving. Now that from a Sisu point of view isn't good as it means that their NOPM tactic against ACL isn't working. So they just put more pressure on the council to 'give' them ACL.

James Smith · Dec 17, 2013

SkyBlueScottie said:
I think thats a question all fans want understand.

However to claim that the council and ACL care about Coventry is simply not true..... They only care about the club when they can pay a rent which covers the mortgage on the building.

So if ACL paid off the mortgage completely and still wanted us back your opinion would change? How about if ACL were doing well enough to let the club play there rent free (so long as profit was above a certain level) and there was reduced matchday costs as well you'd have a problem with us being at the Ricoh if ACL was still there?

tisza · Dec 17, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
PWKH has explained many times on here that they are totally, totally, totally different entities.

Sorry aren't they ultimately all part of the Higgs Charity? Whilst the ACL bit and the Centre mainly have different trustees aren't both part of the Higgs Charity structure?

James Smith · Dec 17, 2013

tisza said:
Sorry aren't they ultimately all part of the Higgs Charity? Whilst the ACL bit and the Centre mainly have different trustees aren't both part of the Higgs Charity structure?

Don't think so, they had different entries on whichever website it was that I looked them up on last Friday.

chiefdave · Dec 17, 2013

I can't think of any scenario beneficial to the football club that requires ownership of the freehold. The only benefit I can see is for SISU. If they can obtain the freehold at below market value they can debt load against the security of the freehold and use that money to pay off some / all of the loans to SISU / AVRO etc. I don't think anyone believes they have put £60m in so if they could pick up the freehold for say £5m and its worth £40m (no idea of actual value, just illustrative figures) they are £35m up. They can then walk away having got at least a large chunk of their money back and leave the football club with a debt it will struggle to repay.

The best deal from the football club perspective is to purchase ACL outright (and in doing so pay off the council loan). Then ask the council to convert the lease to a rolling lease at a peppercorn rent. The council can set clauses which if broken, revert the lease back to the council to prevent SISU, or any future owners, doing anything they shouldn't.

The club needs to hold the freehold. (1 Viewer)

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