Tactical Change (18 Viewers)

[Fusilier]

For me the defensive issues start with how we’re building up. It ends up looking like a 3-1-6 with the full-backs miles up the pitch and Grimes dropping into the back line.

A couple of problems with that:

1. It’s not getting the best out of Grimes.
   He’s at his best in front of the midfield, central, pulling strings as the deep lying playmaker, not shuffling into LB/RB/CB to make a back three. When we lose possession his lack of pace gets exposed and lately he’s looked very frustrated.
2. Teams have worked us out.
   Everyone knows how we want to play now, and opposition managers are deliberately targeting the space behind the full-backs, especially down our left. We’ve been punished there time and again, and Dasilva and Kitching are often in poor positions, without the pace or athleticism to recover.

What I would like to see is a tweak in the build-up shape. Instead of forcing a 3-2 base with Grimes dropping in, go more 2-3: keep the two centre-halves where they are, and have the full-backs tuck in closer to Grimes so the team has got a proper three behind the ball. Then you have still got five ahead of them, but the team is not totally exposed when possession is lost. Full backs are closer to recycle possession and can actually recover into a back four.

Also, I think we could really do with a proper defensive specialist on the coaching staff. Someone who will drill the defensive unit and fix the basics. An Ashley Cole type addition as a coach wouldn’t be the worst “signing” we could make right now.

 

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[SBT]

What is the evidence that Ashley Cole can drill a team into being defensively tight in five months?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

For me its simple. Away from home we have only 1 full back going forward at one time, we have the number 8 playing closer to the number 6 more like a double Pivot and it will make us a lot more solid.

 

[covcity4life]

Let's change formation and sell every player and replace with new ones FFS

If people on here had their way rudoni wright and bta would have been bombed out already after all

Soon as anyone dips in form it's drop them. Replace them. They don't deserve to be back in etc

Then when they do well they move on to someone else.

 

[clint van damme]

Let's change formation and sell every player and replace with new ones FFS

If people on here had their way rudoni wright and bta would have been bombed out already after all

Soon as anyone dips in form it's drop them. Replace them. They don't deserve to be back in etc

Then when they do well they move on to someone else.

He hasn't mentioned selling players, just tactical changes. You think we should carry on doing what we're doing?

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

I mentioned this idea of shifting to a 3-2-5 earlier in possession.

Wouldn’t be a huge tweak to ask one of the fullbacks to tuck in to allow grimes further forward to mean we are a bit safer in transition.

In fact we played like this when Lampard first came in with either Dasilva or bidders tucking jn

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I mentioned this idea of shifting to a 3-2-5 earlier in possession.

Wouldn’t be a huge tweak to ask one of the fullbacks to tuck in to allow grimes further forward to mean we are a bit safer in transition.

In fact we played like this when Lampard first came in with either Dasilva or bidders tucking jn

It would be much easier to just play the same formation with a double pivot instead.

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

It would be much easier to just play the same formation with a double pivot instead.

To be honest I’m shocked we stopped doing this after Lampard tweaked it for the Leicester second half

 

[clint van damme]

It would be much easier to just play the same formation with a double pivot instead.

You still need your full backs to be in the same time zone as your midfield

 

[David O'Day]

right, let us stop the nonsense that Grimes when we were on form was not dropping as deep as he does now, he was but the other midfielder be it torp or eccles was much deep which gave him an out ball and an extra man to help play through any press

 

[Ccfcisparks]

You still need your full backs to be in the same time zone as your midfield

True but again surely that should be able to be fixed. I dont get why we have both going forward. Having 1 back would leave us a lot better.

The 6 then drops into the full back position of whoevers pushed.

 

[clint van damme]

True but again surely that should be able to be fixed. I dont get why we have both going forward. Having 1 back would leave us a lot better.

The 6 then drops into the full back position of whoevers pushed.

When I saw the team selection yesterday I thought this might happen. I also thought Rudoni might stay more central, but none of it did.

Though to be fair, our goal came from Rudoni pulling out wide.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

When I saw the team selection yesterday I thought this might happen. I also thought Rudoni might stay more central, but none of it did.

Though to be fair, our goal came from Rudoni pulling out wide.

Yes on paper they seem like minor tweaks but we dont seem to adhere to them.

 

[Fusilier]

What is the evidence that Ashley Cole can drill a team into being defensively tight in five months?

Ashley Cole was previously part of Lampard’s coaching staff at Everton. On top of that, he’s worked with England U21s alongside Lee Carsley (while also coaching in Chelsea’s academy) and had a spell at Birmingham City as a first-team coach. He also assisted Carsley during his stint as interim England manager.

He left Birmingham in September 2024 to work full-time at the FA.

In my opinion, he would be a very good addition to the coaching staff.

 

[clint van damme]

When you've blown a 13 point lead brining in a defensive coach who's rumoured to have stuck a mobile phone up his arse would be text book City

 

[covcity4life]

He hasn't mentioned selling players, just tactical changes. You think we should carry on doing what we're doing?

Apologies to the OP. Not aimed at him. Just gurney and posters on here last few days talking about changing formation and how big players now need to be dropped(grimes Thomas kithcing jds rudoni)

We need tweaks not drastic changes imo

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

When you've blown a 13 point lead brining in a defensive coach who's rumoured to have stuck a mobile phone up his arse would be text book City

Knows all about keeping things tight then

 

[SBT]

Ashley Cole was previously part of Lampard’s coaching staff at Everton. On top of that, he’s worked with England U21s alongside Lee Carsley (while also coaching in Chelsea’s academy) and had a spell at Birmingham City as a first-team coach. He also assisted Carsley during his stint as interim England manager.

He left Birmingham in September 2024 to work full-time at the FA.

In my opinion, he would be a very good addition to the coaching staff.

Were any of those teams known for their defensive prowess? That Birmingham team had Wayne Rooney as manager, why not bring him in as well to work with our strikers?

 

[Skyblue Bangkok]

Were any of those teams known for their defensive prowess? That Birmingham team had Wayne Rooney as manager, why not bring him in as well to work with our strikers?

Rooney could work with the players grannies . Likes that sort of thing apparently.

 

[clint van damme]

Apologies to the OP. Not aimed at him. Just gurney and posters on here last few days talking about changing formation and how big players now need to be dropped(grimes Thomas kithcing jds rudoni)

We need tweaks not drastic changes imo

I don't listen to Gurney if possible.
Wouldn't be against dropping either centre half.
Players still getting picked after numerous errors doesn't end well.

 

[Fusilier]

Were any of those teams known for their defensive prowess? That Birmingham team had Wayne Rooney as manager, why not bring him in as well to work with our strikers?

I’m sure Cole knows a thing or two about defensive coaching, especially given that Lampard brought him in as a coach at Everton, and that as a player he won 13 major trophies, earned over 100 caps for England, and worked under some world-class managers and coaches.

 

[SBT]

Here’s how the midfield set up for Coventry 7-1 QPR



And here’s how it looked for QPR 2-1 Coventry



I’m not sure you can say that Grimes playing too deep is the difference between the two results…

 

[SBT]

I’m sure Cole knows a thing or two about defensive coaching, especially given that Lampard brought him in as a coach at Everton, and that as a player he won 13 major trophies, earned over 100 caps for England, and worked under some world-class managers and coaches.

It didn’t seem to help Everton, or Birmingham, or Lee Carsley’s England out very much.

 

[Fusilier]

Apologies to the OP. Not aimed at him. Just gurney and posters on here last few days talking about changing formation and how big players now need to be dropped(grimes Thomas kithcing jds rudoni)

We need tweaks not drastic changes imo

I agree tweaks are needed, but nothing drastic in terms of formation or team selection. For me it’s more about the roles and positioning of the full-backs and Grimes, so the rest defence is more solid and Grimes is operating in the areas that suit him best and bring out his strengths as a midfield playmaker

 

[Fusilier]

Here’s how the midfield set up for Coventry 7-1 QPR

View attachment 48908

And here’s how it looked for QPR 2-1 Coventry

View attachment 48909

I’m not sure you can say that Grimes playing too deep is the difference between the two results…

My point is that at this stage of the season our attacking patterns, and our defensive weaknesses, are well known to opposition managers and analysts. We’re conceding far too many goals from teams targeting the full backs’ positioning and attacking the space in behind them, often with Grimes left trying to cover.

 

[Cally Fedora]

I’d go to a straight 5-3-2 away and 4-2-3-1 at home. Woolf comes in at home

 

[CCFCAnalysis]

It would be much easier to just play the same formation with a double pivot instead.

We tried that first half yesterday. And it was terrible. Eccles got pulled out to RB. It’s his natural inclination. Meant even more space in the middle than normal. At least Torp stays central


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[Ccfcisparks]

We tried that first half yesterday. And it was terrible. Eccles got pulled out to RB. It’s his natural inclination. Meant even more space in the middle than normal. At least Torp stays central


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So we tried it with a player who has no experience playing it. Onyeka has.

 

[Evo1883]

To be honest I’m shocked we stopped doing this after Lampard tweaked it for the Leicester second half

I agree , it should be how we setup as standard

 

[Otis]

When you've blown a 13 point lead brining in a defensive coach who's rumoured to have stuck a mobile phone up his arse would be text book City

More preferable to cocaine.

 

[clint van damme]

More preferable to cocaine.

I'll take your word mate

 

[Evo1883]

I'll take your word mate

 

[CCFCAnalysis]

So we tried it with a player who has no experience playing it. Onyeka has.

This perception that Onyeka is a sitting 6 is miles off


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[Otis]

I'll take your word mate

You know what I mean.

I would rather he had his phone up there than a bag of cocaine. How would be be able to ring his mum if the bag burst and he died?

Not likely to die from the phone. Thought it would be a close call

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This perception that Onyeka is a sitting 6 is miles off


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The man himself sees him as a 6/8