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Supporters' group tells Coventry City FC owners to clarify stadium plans (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Nick
  • Start date Dec 1, 2015
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H

Haigha

New Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #596
italiahorse said:
I'm comparing to the Ricoh when the club was in Northampton.
Click to expand...

Interesting viewpoint, but I don't think you can't look at these things in isolation can you? When a football stadium was built in the north east of the city as little or no consideration was given to the economic vacuum that would be left around Highfield Road.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #597
italiahorse said:
I still believe that Sisu only moved us back because they got word of the Wasps deal.
It goes without saying that the negotiations had started with Wasps well before we came back.
Click to expand...


The CET probably knew and sat on the story for the last 2 years..... you know to keep their pals at County Hall happy.
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #598
chiefdave said:
Doubt that would be the arrangement. If SISU were to pay for a huge redevelopment of the Butts they aren't going to hand it over to CRFC and then pay them rent to play there.

Personally I would set up a joint venture co set up in such a way that CCFC got the majority of the income, as they would presumably put in the majority of the capital, but ensured that CRFC were at worse on an equal footing as their current deal.
Click to expand...

So its OK for a football team to screw over a Rugby team but not the other away around.
I don't believe CRFC are stupid enough to get into bed with Sisu.
At the end of the day the council have Screwed CCFC over, but don't kid yourself our owners don't give a fuck about CCFC ether!!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #599
letsallsingtogether said:
So its OK for a football team to screw over a Rugby team but not the other away around.
Click to expand...

Where did I say that?

chiefdave said:
And if we're talking about the Butts at the very least didn't leave CRFC worse off.
Click to expand...

chiefdave said:
ensured that CRFC were at worse on an equal footing as their current deal.
Click to expand...
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #600
letsallsingtogether said:
So its OK for a football team to screw over a Rugby team but not the other away around.
Click to expand...

Certainly isn't, FWIW.

I know we're talking in IFs, but if CRFC didn't want the football club muscling in on their ground, it'd be time for another poorly attended protest I reckon

At the end of the day the council have Screwed CCFC over, but don't kid yourself our owners don't give a fuck about CCFC ether!!
Click to expand...

I think that's a given.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #601
letsallsingtogether said:
So its OK for a football team to screw over a Rugby team but not the other away around.
Click to expand...

Nope, far from it. If (not that I think it will) we did go to the Butts then it will certainly need to benefit them and help them. I wouldn't want CCFC muscling in and trying to take everything, it would need to benefit both but help both grow at the same time.
 

ceetee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #602
italiahorse said:
I still believe that Sisu only moved us back because they got word of the Wasps deal.
It goes without saying that the negotiations had started with Wasps well before we came back.
Click to expand...

Don't always agree with you but I do on this one. I would go further. There were two parties to the deal and I wonder if the then management of ACL were trying to put obstacles in the way of Wasps. After all the guy who did the deal didn't last very long afterwards
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #603
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/butts-park-arena-deal-secures-3067399

Unless anything has changed since this article then CRFC still have 120 years left on their lease, nothing can be done without their permission, and even if they wanted to join forces with SISU/CCFC in some kind of joint venture then I'd have thought the freeholder, CCC, would have to agree to someone else coming in on the lease.
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #604
Deleted member 5849 said:
Certainly isn't, FWIW.

I know we're talking in IFs, but if CRFC didn't want the football club muscling in on their ground, it'd be time for another poorly attended protest I reckon
Click to expand...

Those days are over our fans don't have the fight in them.
And I have used up all my Annual leave
 
Last edited: Dec 7, 2015

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #605
Moff said:
If you dont like what he writes dont read it.

You seem happy to give your opinion, which is generally the opposite to Grendels, so why shouldnt he.
Click to expand...

Never said he shouldn't?
Just said he and his mate Torch are boring and as you said that's just an opinion, oh and an observation.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #606
Rusty Trombone said:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/butts-park-arena-deal-secures-3067399

Unless anything has changed since this article then CRFC still have 120 years left on their lease, nothing can be done without their permission, and even if they wanted to join forces with SISU/CCFC in some kind of joint venture then I'd have thought the freeholder, CCC, would have to agree to someone else coming in on the lease.
Click to expand...

Ok, so they are not going to live happily ever after. Pity, but I am going to bed anyway.....thought reality would click in at some time. Night all...
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #607
Sick Boy said:
More like you are shown up as the fool you are time and time again. I thought that the franchise had cemented their place in the city? Instead they peddle lies to cover up their pathetic attendances.
Click to expand...

:laugh: Lies/fool:laugh:
:laugh:
That coming from the believer:laugh:
 

covmark

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #608
letsallsingtogether said:
Lies/fool


That coming from the believer
Click to expand...
Believer of what?
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2015
  • #609
covmark said:
Believer of what?
Click to expand...

Of the Empire!
 

The_Coventry

Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #610
Ian1779 said:
The CET probably knew and sat on the story for the last 2 years..... you know to keep their pals at County Hall happy.
Click to expand...

They definitely knew about the Wasps deal well before they ran that story. They've been in bed with the council for years.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #611
Nick said:
Nope, far from it. If (not that I think it will) we did go to the Butts then it will certainly need to benefit them and help them. I wouldn't want CCFC muscling in and trying to take everything, it would need to benefit both but help both grow at the same time.
Click to expand...

From experience I think they can trust Sisu ?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #612
letsallsingtogether said:
So its OK for a football team to screw over a Rugby team but not the other away around.
I don't believe CRFC are stupid enough to get into bed with Sisu.
At the end of the day the council have Screwed CCFC over, but don't kid yourself our owners don't give a fuck about CCFC ether!!
Click to expand...

Its also OK for a football team to look after a Rugby team for mutual benefit but not the other way round.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #613
italiahorse said:
Its also OK for a football team to look after a Rugby team for mutual benefit but not the other way round.
Click to expand...
Yes, we benefit a lot from wasps! All the money we make from their games.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #614
ceetee said:
Don't always agree with you but I do on this one. I would go further. There were two parties to the deal and I wonder if the then management of ACL were trying to put obstacles in the way of Wasps. After all the guy who did the deal didn't last very long afterwards
Click to expand...

Don't think so, the board of directors was composed of 2 CCC officers, 2 Higgs Charity representatives and one independent. If anything the Higgs reps. might have resisted the poor price till they came to a point of acceptance, but once CCC decided to sell I don't think they had much choice and with all the legal stuff going on I don't blame them for getting out.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #615
Nick said:
Yes, we benefit a lot from wasps! All the money we make from their games.
Click to expand...

We have not negotiated a deal with Wasps yet.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #616
Nick said:
Yes, we benefit a lot from wasps! All the money we make from their games.
Click to expand...

Do you expect us to be benefiting from CRFC games if we own the Butts?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #617
skybluetony176 said:
Do you expect us to be benefiting from CRFC games if we own the Butts?
Click to expand...

My starting point would be CRFC gets full benefit of any rugby events, CCFC gets any benefit of any football events. The rest then gets split on some basis but if we're assuming CCFC / SISU are in someway funding the redevelopment then they would get most of the benefit.

For me the key point is CRFC are no worse off. If they can make a bit more while we also prosper then everyone is happy.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #618
chiefdave said:
My starting point would be CRFC gets full benefit of any rugby events, CCFC gets any benefit of any football events. The rest then gets split on some basis but if we're assuming CCFC / SISU are in someway funding the redevelopment then they would get most of the benefit.

For me the key point is CRFC are no worse off. If they can make a bit more while we also prosper then everyone is happy.
Click to expand...

Do we know whether or not CRFC are worse off since Wasps arrived?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #619
skybluetony176 said:
Do you expect us to be benefiting from CRFC games if we own the Butts?
Click to expand...
I would expect both teams to be benefiting. Not just one way. I wouldn't expect ccfc to go in and take any crfc revenue and name them worse off, I'd want them to be better off to make it worthwhile.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #620
martcov said:
Do we know whether or not CRFC are worse off since Wasps arrived?
Click to expand...

Short term probably not. Long term... absolutely.

(unless, of course, there's an ideal world scenario for them where Wasps raise interest in Rugby in the city in general, before bogging off elsewhere/going pop)

(AND ANOTHER THING, still wondering why an owner desperate to bring top flight Rugby to the city of Coventry didn't buy the club already in the city, and give them the funds to get there. Not *that* many divisions they'd have to climb, after all.)
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #621
chiefdave said:
My starting point would be CRFC gets full benefit of any rugby events, CCFC gets any benefit of any football events. The rest then gets split on some basis but if we're assuming CCFC / SISU are in someway funding the redevelopment then they would get most of the benefit.

For me the key point is CRFC are no worse off. If they can make a bit more while we also prosper then everyone is happy.
Click to expand...

What if CRFC see it as they're providing the land/lease and no doubt there will be some sort of grant available to them from the EU, RFU or maybe from there own backers for the redevelopment. How do you know that we won't be their tenants and us being their tenant is the motivation they need to redevelop the Butts? For all you know our situation could be worse than the one we're currently in as we're still renting, have limited access to revenue streams and have limited ourselves to a ceiling of 15k a game in ticket revenue.
 
Last edited: Dec 8, 2015

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #622
skybluetony176 said:
What if CRFC see it as they're providing the land/lease and no doubt there will be some sort of grant available to them from the EU, RFU or maybe from there own backers for the redevelopment. How do you know that we won't be their tenants and us being their tenant is the motivation they need to redevelop the Butts? For all you know our situation could be worse than the one we're currently in as we're still renting, have limited access to revenue streams and have limited ourselves to a ceiling of 15k a game in ticket revenue.
Click to expand...

Why would the EU grant money to Cov RFC to redevelop their ground? Why would the RFU?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #623
fernandopartridge said:
Why would the EU grant money to Cov RFC to redevelop their ground? Why would the RFU?
Click to expand...

I seem to remember that the Ricoh was part funded with grants from everyman and their dog. Why wouldn't similar grants be available for the redevelopment of the Butts?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #624
skybluetony176 said:
I seem to remember that the Ricoh was part funded with grants from everyman and their dog. Why wouldn't similar grants be available for the redevelopment of the Butts?
Click to expand...

The Ricoh had £4.4m from European Regional Development Fund and £4.8m from Advantage West Midlands.

To get an ERDF grant the Butts redevelopment would have to qualify as sustainable urban development.

AWM is a lot more vauge, you could get pretty much anything to meet their requirements so I guess its more down to if they want to support your project or not.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #625
chiefdave said:
The Ricoh had £4.4m from European Regional Development Fund and £4.8m from Advantage West Midlands.

To get an ERDF grant the Butts redevelopment would have to qualify as sustainable urban development.

AWM is a lot more vauge, you could get pretty much anything to meet their requirements so I guess its more down to if they want to support your project or not.
Click to expand...

So it is possible then that the Butts will receive grants for development. As I also said how do you know that it won't be CRFC doing the development and we'll be their tenants? It is possible. Might also explain the lack of ambition where capacity is concerned, CRFC don't need a 25k stadium and in all likelihood never will. We possibly might on the other hand.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #626
skybluetony176 said:
I seem to remember that the Ricoh was part funded with grants from everyman and their dog. Why wouldn't similar grants be available for the redevelopment of the Butts?
Click to expand...

It was a derelict brownfield site though and the applicant was the Regional Development Agency who managed ERDF at that time.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #627
skybluetony176 said:
So it is possible then that the Butts will receive grants for development. As I also said how do you know that it won't be CRFC doing the development and we'll be their tenants? It is possible. Might also explain the lack of ambition where capacity is concerned, CRFC don't need a 25k stadium and in all likelihood never will. We possibly might on the other hand.
Click to expand...

Its possible of course, we don't know any of the details so pretty much anything is possible. For all we know it could be a 80K underground stadium
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #628
chiefdave said:
The Ricoh had £4.4m from European Regional Development Fund and £4.8m from Advantage West Midlands.

To get an ERDF grant the Butts redevelopment would have to qualify as sustainable urban development.

AWM is a lot more vauge, you could get pretty much anything to meet their requirements so I guess its more down to if they want to support your project or not.
Click to expand...

Not sure about that chief, AWM and the other Regional Development Agencies were abolished in 2010. The local enterprise partnership may be able to draw down European money, but I doubt redeveloping an existing stadium would qualify.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #629
fernandopartridge said:
Not sure about that chief, AWM and the other Regional Development Agencies were abolished in 2010. The local enterprise partnership may be able to draw down European money, but I doubt redeveloping an existing stadium would qualify.
Click to expand...

Probably be quite tricky to get a grant from them if they don't exist anymore :laugh: did anything similar replace it or do it just get cut?

EDRF has state aid implications, can't be used to distort the market so might be a non starter even if stadium redevelopment did meet their criteria.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2015
  • #630
chiefdave said:
Its possible of course, we don't know any of the details so pretty much anything is possible. For all we know it could be a 80K underground stadium
Click to expand...

Indeed. And as the article that the thread is supposed to be about is the Trust asking for clarity on just that. Shame it got twisted into another Wasps thread.

Only two clubs should have been discussed on this thread and that's CCFC and CRFC. That lasted as far as post #2.
 
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