Supporters' group tells Coventry City FC owners to clarify stadium plans (8 Viewers)

chiefdave · Dec 5, 2015

Astute said:
Why do you have to take what you know as untrue as the truth to have a dig at me or yet another cheap dig at CCC?

What is untrue?

Richardson claims he arranged a deal with Tesco where they purchased part of the site for £66.5m, it was actually sold to Tesco for £59.4m. The CT reported CCC purchased the land for £20m including the cost of decontamination. That would leave nearly £40m towards stadium construction.

Fletcher claims the site cost £20m to purchase and decontaminate. He said the land was sold to Tesco for around £62.5m leaving £40m towards stadium construction. He also claims that the council went back on the original deal at the last minute which resulted in CCFC not having partial ownership of the stadium.

Astute said:
The money left over from what Tescos paid wouldn't even cover the price of a pitch.

So are you disputing the cost of purchasing the land and decontamination? Council documents list the land purchase as £24m. Decontamination costs have never been revealed by the council have they? It is bundled in with other costs in their reports. Their original projection was £17m for decontamination and infrastructure and it came in on budget. It is actually listed as payment in kind but I haven't seen details of what this was made up of.

Seems to imply there was a lot more left over than the cost of a pitch.

The total cost of the whole project was £118.7m against a budgeted £113.3m. That breaks down as:
Main contract and contingency: £57m
Other construction costs and insurance: £0.9m
Fit out: £7m
Railway station: £0.9m
Rent abatement: £0.4m
Other costs: £52.5m

The funding breaks down as:
Council investment: £10m
Tesco: £59.4m
Interest and other income: £9.6m
Hotel: £0.5m
Residual land: £5m
Borrowing: £21m (this was repaid using the lease payment from ACL)
ERDF (grant): £4.4m
ACL: £1.1m
AWM (grant): £4.8m

There was an overspend of £2.9m

So its clear CCC only put in £10m. However their own reports state that the Ricoh will raise the value of other council owned land in the area.

As we know CCFC ended up with a 50% stake in ACL which they sold to Higgs for £6m (which was in reality £4m as a previous loan was used in the equation), that share at the time had been valued at £18.5m according to Paul Fletcher.

Seems to me we got shafted at every possible opportunity.

fernandopartridge · Dec 5, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Happy to be corrected but I was working alot in Leicester on various new build housing estates and I'm sure that the site had been levelled and cleared long before LCFC ever shown an interest in it. I remember driving past the site regularly for what seemed like the best part of a decade and can only remember the site being leveled and surrounded by site fencing. Again I'm happy to be proved wrong but I'm pretty sure that the site wasn't cleared to build a football stadium and the original developer went tits up before the original planned development could begin.

Sorry Tony misunderstood what you meant. Fair enough

Astute · Dec 5, 2015

chiefdave said:
What is untrue?

Richardson claims he arranged a deal with Tesco where they purchased part of the site for £66.5m, it was actually sold to Tesco for £59.4m. The CT reported CCC purchased the land for £20m including the cost of decontamination. That would leave nearly £40m towards stadium construction.

Fletcher claims the site cost £20m to purchase and decontaminate. He said the land was sold to Tesco for around £62.5m leaving £40m towards stadium construction. He also claims that the council went back on the original deal at the last minute which resulted in CCFC not having partial ownership of the stadium.

So are you disputing the cost of purchasing the land and decontamination? Council documents list the land purchase as £24m. Decontamination costs have never been revealed by the council have they? It is bundled in with other costs in their reports. Their original projection was £17m for decontamination and infrastructure and it came in on budget. It is actually listed as payment in kind but I haven't seen details of what this was made up of.

Seems to imply there was a lot more left over than the cost of a pitch.

The total cost of the whole project was £118.7m against a budgeted £113.3m. That breaks down as:
Main contract and contingency: £57m
Other construction costs and insurance: £0.9m
Fit out: £7m
Railway station: £0.9m
Rent abatement: £0.4m
Other costs: £52.5m

The funding breaks down as:
Council investment: £10m
Tesco: £59.4m
Interest and other income: £9.6m
Hotel: £0.5m
Residual land: £5m
Borrowing: £21m (this was repaid using the lease payment from ACL)
ERDF (grant): £4.4m
ACL: £1.1m
AWM (grant): £4.8m

There was an overspend of £2.9m

So its clear CCC only put in £10m. However their own reports state that the Ricoh will raise the value of other council owned land in the area.

As we know CCFC ended up with a 50% stake in ACL which they sold to Higgs for £6m (which was in reality £4m as a previous loan was used in the equation), that share at the time had been valued at £18.5m according to Paul Fletcher.

Seems to me we got shafted at every possible opportunity.

Are you Grendel in disguise?

He said he bought the land and sold land to Tesco's. He said he left our club in a good position. Everything that went wrong was after he left

Did Fletcher agree with him?

Grendel · Dec 5, 2015

Astute said:
Are you Grendel in disguise?

He said he bought the land and sold land to Tesco's. He said he left our club in a good position. Everything that went wrong was after he left

Did Fletcher agree with him?

Why is he me in disguise? Because he's come up with some research that leaves you floundering?

Could be a number of posters.

Nice to see your still coming to the forum dressed as Anne Lucas.

Sick Boy · Dec 5, 2015

Astute said:
Or do you mean comes out with false claims and uses two people saying something that contradicts each other to tell me I am wrong?

I am all for finding out the truth. Making false claims only muddies the water. Then many believe the false claims to be true. Just like you stating that we had paid for the land when we hadn't. Did you know that we hadn't or had you heard that we had?

I was asking a question, not stating.

Astute · Dec 5, 2015

Grendel said:
Why is he me in disguise? Because he's come up with some research that leaves you floundering?

Could be a number of posters.

Nice to see your still coming to the forum dressed as Anne Lucas.

There you go as usual. Making a statement that you know isn't true.

Floundering? Why no answer then?

We all know that Richardson wasn't being truthful when he said he paid for the land and sold half of it to Tesco's. But we are to believe the rest of it? :facepalm:

Astute · Dec 5, 2015

Sick Boy said:
Didn't the club pay for both the land and the decontamination?

Sick Boy said:
I was asking a question, not stating.

A question would have been 'Did the club pay for both the land and the decontamination? But the way you put it looks like you believed it. Or chose your words carefully to make it look like they did.

James Smith · Dec 5, 2015

fernandopartridge said:
It was previously quoted (can't remember who) at approx £20m for the decontamination. It doesn't actually say it didn't cost that much as decontamination is lumped in with other costs.
The build cost at even £60m is significantly higher than comparable stadia, Walkers Stadium was £35m.

Didn't the builders of the Walkers walk away from the Ricoh project after Leicester went into administration? If not then I apologise to the builders of the Walkers.

skybluetony176 · Dec 5, 2015

James Smith said:
Didn't the builders of the Walkers walk away from the Ricoh project after Leicester went into administration? If not then I apologise to the builders of the Walkers.

Anybody involved with building the Walkers took a big hit. An electrician mate of mine was working for the electrical contractor and I believe it sent them under.

Grendel · Dec 5, 2015

Astute said:
There you go as usual. Making a statement that you know isn't true.

Floundering? Why no answer then?

We all know that Richardson wasn't being truthful when he said he paid for the land and sold half of it to Tesco's. But we are to believe the rest of it? :facepalm:

Floundering because many posters identified reasoned arguments that showed regeneration cost at around £20 million.

You say it isn't -yet provide no evidence whatsoever.

So where is your evidence?

Grendel · Dec 5, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Anybody involved with building the Walkers took a big hit. An electrician mate of mine was working for the electrical contractor and I believe it sent them under.

Whichever way you cut it or spin it here is no way the stadium costs don't look massively out of proportion.

The Brittania stadium cost £14 million

Regenerated land ain't £100 million whichever way you look at it..

Terry Gibson's perm · Dec 5, 2015

So glad we have a game next week, trying to remember all this stuff from years ago hurts my head.

skybluetony176 · Dec 5, 2015

Grendel said:
Whichever way you cut it or spin it here is no way the stadium costs don't look massively out of proportion.

The Brittania stadium cost £14 million

Regenerated land ain't £100 million whichever way you look at it..

Almost a decade previously. Also smaller capacity. Never been but does it have a hotel, casino, exhibition hall etc?

James Smith · Dec 5, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Almost a decade previously. Also smaller capacity. Never been but does it have a hotel, casino, exhibition hall etc?

I know it's a bloody cold stadium!

wingy · Dec 5, 2015

STADE DE FIANCE cost £100 M, Wembley 8-5. times that Emirates 4-5 times.
Buggered if I can tell you why, apart from the passage of time.

Jack Griffin · Dec 5, 2015

Grendel said:
Whichever way you cut it or spin it here is no way the stadium costs don't look massively out of proportion.

The Brittania stadium cost £14 million

Regenerated land ain't £100 million whichever way you look at it..

Jack Griffin said:
Some people always ready to compare 2 totally different things and cry foul. The devil is in the detail.

I rest my case.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 5, 2015

wingy said:
STADE DE FIANCE cost £100 M.

Women eh?

Grendel · Dec 5, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Almost a decade previously. Also smaller capacity. Never been but does it have a hotel, casino, exhibition hall etc?

Who benefits from those add dons? As for 4,000 less capacity I really can't be bothered. Let's focus on add ons How much are they worth given that the stadium in Stoke has attracted live concerts equal to the Ricoh.

What actually does the hotel make for the management company every year? How about the Casino? Surely the management company only lease these spaces to the owners so make very little? Are you actually saying that Stoke City - who paid £6 million for the whole stadium - are looking at the Ricoh and thinking - shit we don't own a hotel (which wasps don't own)?

wingy · Dec 5, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Women eh?

Would you believe predictive text compounded by broken glasses on Thursday night and possibly a conotact lense or part of stuck somewhere on my right eye.
I kid you not

skybluetony176 · Dec 5, 2015

Grendel said:
Who benefits from those add dons? As for 4,000 less capacity I really can't be bothered. Let's focus on add ons How much are they worth given that the stadium in Stoke has attracted live concerts equal to the Ricoh.

What actually does the hotel make for the management company every year? How about the Casino? Surely the management company only lease these spaces to the owners so make very little? Are you actually saying that Stoke City - who paid £6 million for the whole stadium - are looking at the Ricoh and thinking - shit we don't own a hotel (which wasps don't own)?

I thought we were talking about the build costs? Why are you changing the subject?

At the end of the day the hotel, casino, exhibition hall etc were not chucked in for free. It wasn't buy one stadium build and get a hotel, casino and exhibition hall built for free. There was a cost to build them. If you're going to compare the Ricoh try comparing it to something that is similar spec.

Sick Boy · Dec 5, 2015

Astute said:
A question would have been 'Did the club pay for both the land and the decontamination? But the way you put it looks like you believed it. Or chose your words carefully to make it look like they did.

Oh dear.

Astute · Dec 5, 2015

Grendel said:
Whichever way you cut it or spin it here is no way the stadium costs don't look massively out of proportion.

The Brittania stadium cost £14 million

Regenerated land ain't £100 million whichever way you look at it..

And here is the twisting of the truth that I said about.

So the build cost of the whole arena should of been 14m? And you accuse others of spin

Grendel · Dec 5, 2015

Astute said:
And here is the twisting of the truth that I said about.

So the build cost of the whole arena should of been 14m? And you accuse others of spin

No I accuse you if being up the councils arse as deep as "chris stokes or is it Sam Ricketts Tony" or that buffoon Italia.

Grendel · Dec 5, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
I thought we were talking about the build costs? Why are you changing the subject?

At the end of the day the hotel, casino, exhibition hall etc were not chucked in for free. It wasn't buy one stadium build and get a hotel, casino and exhibition hall built for free. There was a cost to build them. If you're going to compare the Ricoh try comparing it to something that is similar spec.

The hotel the casino and exhibition hall were built to justify the council in their regeneration mantra you clueless fuckwit.

The football club ended to being saddled with a rental agreement to fund projects it could never benefit from.

The council set a company up which the club paid for so it could play management company games.

If the likes of you, the absurdly named Astute (that has to be a joke surely) and good ol' Council Jack Lucas truly believe the stadium is worth 10 Brittania Stadiums or 5 Walker stadiums to their respective football clubs then truly, truly we deserve to be where we are.

Fortunately my observation on this thread is that there are a lot more clued up thinking people than you and your equally ill informed partners in crime (against economic sense)

italiahorse · Dec 5, 2015

Grendel said:
No I accuse you if being up the councils arse as deep as "chris stokes or is it Sam Ricketts Tony" or that buffoon Italia.

Keep the insults going it shows you have nothing else in your portfolio.
One of life's losers.

Nick · Dec 5, 2015

italiahorse said:
Keep the insults going it shows you have nothing else in your portfolio.
One of life's losers.

So you insult him also? Just to show you have nothing else in your portfolio?

Sick Boy · Dec 5, 2015

More like you are shown up as the fool you are time and time again. I thought that the franchise had cemented their place in the city? Instead they peddle lies to cover up their pathetic attendances.

skybluetony176 · Dec 5, 2015

Grendel said:
The hotel the casino and exhibition hall were built to justify the council in their regeneration mantra you clueless fuckwit.

The football club ended to being saddled with a rental agreement to fund projects it could never benefit from.

The council set a company up which the club paid for so it could play management company games.

If the likes of you, the absurdly named Astute (that has to be a joke surely) and good ol' Council Jack Lucas truly believe the stadium is worth 10 Brittania Stadiums or 5 Walker stadiums to their respective football clubs then truly, truly we deserve to be where we are.

Fortunately my observation on this thread is that there are a lot more clued up thinking people than you and your equally ill informed partners in crime (against economic sense)

Hahaha. You are a card.

Wembley was over £750m (closer to £1000m in end I think) does that make the Ricoh good value for money then?

(edit) just had google and apparently the final bill was £938M including infrastructure. That's 8.3 Ricoh's. Or if you prefer Wembley should have cost £333m using the Ricoh as the yard stick and your logic.

italiahorse · Dec 5, 2015

Nick said:
So you insult him also? Just to show you have nothing else in your portfolio?

He called me a buffoon and I call him a loser and you pick me up for insulting him?
Why do you indulge these people ?

Nick · Dec 5, 2015

italiahorse said:
He called me a buffoon and I call him a loser and you pick me up for insulting him?
Why do you indulge these people ?

I am not too sure you are following. You said because he insulted you, he had nothing in his portfolio. Then just after that you insulted him. It made you look a bit silly.

italiahorse · Dec 5, 2015

Nick said:
I am not too sure you are following. You said because he insulted you, he had nothing in his portfolio. Then just after that you insulted him. It made you look a bit silly.

He is on his own on his comment so I was being factual.
I refuse to give you the board of nodding donkeys that you want.

Nick · Dec 5, 2015

italiahorse said:
He is on his own on his comment so I was being factual.
I refuse to give you the board of nodding donkeys that you want.

No, I think you are still missing the point.

You said that him insulting you shows he had nothing in his portfolio, which you followed with an insult to him.

Nothing to do with nodding donkeys, just pointing out how ironic the post is.

italiahorse · Dec 5, 2015

Nick said:
No, I think you are still missing the point.

You said that him insulting you shows he had nothing in his portfolio, which you followed with an insult to him.

Nothing to do with nodding donkeys, just pointing out how ironic the post is.

Why do you bother ?

Nick · Dec 5, 2015

italiahorse said:
Why do you bother ?

What do you mean?

singers_pore · Dec 5, 2015

Nick said:
What do you mean?

We can all see what's in your portfolio. A load of cheap tat from Argos, you pikey.

Supporters' group tells Coventry City FC owners to clarify stadium plans (8 Viewers)

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