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Supporters forum 6pm November 11th (3 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Sky Blue Pete
  • Start date Nov 7, 2024
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TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #491
Pete can you ask Doug what his login is please and if his decision was in any way influenced by Cam, Saddlebrains and co... we need answers
 
Reactions: skybluecam
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #492
torchomatic said:
We were 19th in November 2022. Finished 5th. No vadility at all.
Click to expand...
Very true, with arguably two of the best players in the division, do we have that in our arsenal now?
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #493
TomRad85 said:
Your head has gone and the fact people are liking your posts shows you aren't alone. Never seen anything like it, the reaction to this is worse than when we were bombed out to Northampton. Weird stuff.
Click to expand...

You don’t have any facts at all to back up your position, hence all this talk of “emotion” to try and quieten things down. Look at Robins’ record, look at what actually happened in previous seasons.

if you can convince me that it’s fine to be lowering expectations to the degree we’re seeing on here, fair enough.

What’s actually happening here is that the people who were demanding Robins’ head now want to play down all expectations to avoid being “wrong” if the new guy doesn’t replicate what Robins showed over the length of pretty much every season. It’s actually very clear.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #494
Ring Of Steel said:
The double standards now emanating from the people that were constantly ranting about wanting him gone, it’s embarrassing.

They’re not explicitly using the words “free pass” but that’s what they mean, we can all see that.
Click to expand...

Where are the double standards?

You don't actually make points, you are just hammering every thread trying to ram something home. Again.
 
Reactions: skybluecam

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #495
skybluecam said:
hardly a free pass
Click to expand...
Haha.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #496
Ring Of Steel said:
You don’t have any facts at all to back up your position, hence all this talk of “emotion” to try and quieten things down. Look at Robins’ record, look at what actually happened in previous seasons.

if you can convince me that it’s fine to be lowering expectations to the degree we’re seeing on here, fair enough.

What’s actually happening here is that the people who were demanding Robins’ head now want to play down all expectations to avoid being “wrong” if the new guy doesn’t replicate what Robins showed over the length of pretty much every season. It’s actually very clear.
Click to expand...

You have zero guarantee that it would turn around, unless you have a time machine and have been forward to check?
 
Reactions: skybluecam

usskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #497
What we had was a manager proven to turn around poor starts. *Whether MR would’ve done so again will never be known.

Now, because of Doug’s decision (and the timing of it), what we’re left with is the complete unknown.

That’s why I, a lot of people around the club, and outside the club believe Robins should’ve been given until Christmas.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1, Brighton Sky Blue, torchomatic and 1 other person

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #498
It's weirder that people have started calling him "Mark" now like he's their mate.
 
Reactions: skybluecam

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #499
mmttww said:
... because of him sacking MR or other stuff?
Click to expand...

Hiring a “name”
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #500
shmmeee said:
The sacking happened months ago in reality. I think the hope was there would be some moment of clarity from Doug before he finished the job and turned us into Stoke. The pain of losing our best manager in my lifetime is only compounded with the pain of knowing our owner is exactly the idiot we all feared he was.

On the “any other manager” point that keeps coming up. The reason for that is any other manager hasn’t got results to back up the idea of a turnaround. People pro this decision are already saying basically the new guy has 18 months to prove himself, that’s about the length of most managers tenure, because most managers tenures fail to prove in that 18 months they are the right fit. Robins had already proven that. The sensible place to look was all the changes brought in in the last 18 months when the club has gone to shit compared to its prior trajectory.
Click to expand...

Why is he an idiot? Everyone knows that our form for a long time has not been goods enough. Compare our record v top half teams in 2022/23 and 23/24, there's a massive drop off. This season, we can't even beat the teams we're supposed to - just look at the league positions of the teams we've lost to.

Given that you regularly slate half of our team as 'shite' and MR has final sign-off on transfers, I'm surprised you don't hold Robins accountable for anything.

SkyBlueMatt said:
No, I agree. I wouldn't but that's kind of the point, in 2 ways.

One: If the new manager finishes mid table this season then next, if we find ourself in the bottom half, 12 games in. He won't have the fans backing him like Robins had, so this time next year we could be looking for another manager. I know I would be calling for them to be sacked, as we are now aware it's not good enough.

Two: He was Robins, of everything he's done, including turning the season around twice from being in a similar position and time of the season.
Click to expand...
Totally understand that sentiment because I agree with it.

The club has changed immeasurably from the high point of 2022/23. From 2023/24 it’s a totally new team and new core and the old ‘tried and tested’ method might not have been working with this group of players. I've heard several reports of players actively disliking AV as a person and the nature of his departure sums it up.

If that is the case, and ITKs have mentioned things that could suggest that, then it becomes a possibility that MR is no longer the best person for the job.

clint van damme said:
My initial question wasn't why did they leave, it was why weren't they replaced?
Click to expand...

They were replaced... We hired 4 new coaches for this season. It's not clear if Robins wanted to directly replace AV as an assistant manager or not rather than this new structure. All of this theorised that it's all the evil work of Dr Roberts which I don't think is likely given MR's strength or position at the club. I do recall pundits (maybe McSheffrey?) having concerns about MR's decision to not appoint a proper #2 to replace AV.

The better question would be, who decided on the new coaching structure. Was it pitched to MR and he went for it or was it a forced change. If we were going to hire a number 2 and backed out of it, suggest it may have been Robins' final decision after all. By that point, perhaps the form was that bad, King had got itchy feet and thought about the unthinkable.

If all these decisions were forced on MR with no final say or agency, he may as well have resigned at the start of the season and called out the owners. I just don't think he would've agreed to all this under duress because he doesn't strike me as a weak person.
 
Reactions: skybluecam

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #501
Nick said:
You have zero guarantee that it would turn around, unless you have a time machine and have been forward to check?
Click to expand...

I would suggest that there was more chance than there is now, hence the desperation to lower expectations so that the people demanding Robins was fired can avoid looking hasty, or indeed just plain wrong.
 
N

nunchuckas

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #502
I hope someone asks him something along of the line of the implications we'll have going forward now he's exposed ourselves to the football world as another basket case club, with a lunatic owner who'll be remembered as the man who sacked Mark Robins.

There's bound to be ramifications on struggling to attract players/staff now he's done this. Who'll want to come here now with him as owner?

And even if the new manager is half decent, they're in an almost impossible situation. Anything less than a flying start and they'll be done for. It's insane not giving Robins the chance to turn it around like he has proven he always does. If it's the same scenario by Christmas, then sure, he'd just about get away with doing it then.

He's fucked us either way, lost the best and most proven manager to turn results around and given the new manager an almost impossible chance of succeeding.

At least Sisu never sacked Robins, and left him to it!
 
Last edited: Nov 11, 2024
Reactions: torchomatic and Ring Of Steel

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #503
RoboCCFC90 said:
Very true, with arguably two of the best players in the division, do we have that in our arsenal now?
Click to expand...
Of course not, but that's not the point. Teams do it, not just us. Doncaster did it last year.

The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had. It's madness. Why would you settle for less? Why would you lower your expectations? Surely, we all want to finish as high in the table as we can? If that means getting rid of the current guy for a newer model, so be it, but the new guy has to deliver or it's been a pointless exercise.
 
Reactions: Bigelvesy

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #504
Ring Of Steel said:
You don’t have any facts at all to back up your position, hence all this talk of “emotion” to try and quieten things down. Look at Robins’ record, look at what actually happened in previous seasons.

if you can convince me that it’s fine to be lowering expectations to the degree we’re seeing on here, fair enough.

What’s actually happening here is that the people who were demanding Robins’ head now want to play down all expectations to avoid being “wrong” if the new guy doesn’t replicate what Robins showed over the length of pretty much every season. It’s actually very clear.
Click to expand...
What facts, i watch football with my eyes, we were shit, Doug saw the same. Thats all you need to know really.

I don't really understand this lowering expectations stuff, i want us to be better than we have been, then we go from there. I wanted play offs at the start of the season but here we are near the bottom having pissed away home games and Derby, Wednesday, Swansea and co...

To suggest there is a double standard is strange when many taking the opposite stance reek of it. We were told no manager could do better as the players and/or the coaching staff are hopeless. So my question would be why do you expect us to do any better at all?
 
Reactions: bazza16 and skybluecam

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #505
torchomatic said:
Of course not, but that's not the point. Teams do it, not just us. Doncaster did it last year.

The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had. It's madness. Why would you settle for less? Why would you lower your expectations? Surely, we all want to finish as high in the table as we can? If that means getting rid of the current guy for a newer model, so be it, but the new guy has to deliver or it's been a pointless exercise.
Click to expand...

Try reading what people are actually saying.

The expectations were lowered by the pathetic start to the season.
 
Reactions: bazza16

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #506
torchomatic said:
Of course not, but that's not the point. Teams do it, not just us. Doncaster did it last year.

The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had. It's madness. Why would you settle for less? Why would you lower your expectations? Surely, we all want to finish as high in the table as we can? If that means getting rid of the current guy for a newer model, so be it, but the new guy has to deliver or it's been a pointless exercise.
Click to expand...

There isn’t really any rational response to this apart from it makes sense, so you will probably be called emotional or a weirdo.
 

skybluecam

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #507
torchomatic said:
Of course not, but that's not the point. Teams do it, not just us. Doncaster did it last year.

The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had. It's madness. Why would you settle for less? Why would you lower your expectations? Surely, we all want to finish as high in the table as we can? If that means getting rid of the current guy for a newer model, so be it, but the new guy has to deliver or it's been a pointless exercise.
Click to expand...
The manager we had had us in 17th place. No one would settle for less than that.
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #508
Nick said:
Try reading what people are actually saying.

The expectations were lowered by the pathetic start to the season.
Click to expand...

in some people, a very vocal minority, but by no means the majority.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #509
Nick said:
Try reading what people are actually saying.

The expectations were lowered by the pathetic start to the season.
Click to expand...

Fine. Lowered expectations it is.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #510
nunchuckas said:
I hope someone asks him something along of the line of the implications we'll have going forward now we've exposed ourselves to the football world as another basket case club, with a lunatic owner who'll be remembered as the man who sacked Mark Robins.

There's bound to be ramifications on struggling to sign players/staff now he's done this.

And even if the new manager is half decent, they're in an almost impossible situation. Anything less than a flying start and they'll be done for. It's insane not giving Robins the chance to turn it around like he has proven he always does. If it's the same scenario by Christmas, then sure, he'd just about get away with doing it then.

He's fucked us either way, lost the best and most proven manager to turn results around and given the new manager an almost impossible chance of succeeding.

At least Sisu never sacked Robins, and left him to it!
Click to expand...
I mean, SISU never had £45m invested in the team and in the Championship, our budget was solidly bottom 3 until King took over. If it was your money on the line, you'd probably be a bit about tetchy about us being 17th after 15 games.
 
Reactions: skybluecam

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #511
torchomatic said:
The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had.
Click to expand...
What do you mean let the new manager? Why do you care so much that some people disagree? Our opinions don't matter one jot.
If you don't like how the new manager is getting on start a thread where you can all talk about sacking him you headcase.
 

SKYBLUES90

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #512
Nick said:
"Can Oggy tell me how the keeper played today?"
Click to expand...

That was honestly one of the strangest calls I’ve heard on CWR and there’s been a few!

Can never tell half the time if there a wind up. Haven’t heard Nick the brummie for a while, isn’t you is it?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #513
Ring Of Steel said:
in some people, a very vocal minority, but by no means the majority.
Click to expand...

Behave, it's bullshit. Let's not pretend the poor start is acceptable or irrelevant.
 

skybluecam

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #514
On another point - 3 seasons in a row now we've had an absolutely honking start to the season.

22/23 we thought it was the pitch

23/24 we thought it was the squad rebuild

24/25 what's the excuse? The coaching structure conspiracy?

I think that has probably played a big a part as anything else in the sacking. Even if we recovered to a top 10 finish under Robins this season, what's the guarantee the exact same thing wouldn't happen next season?
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #515
torchomatic said:
Fine. Lowered expectations it is.
Click to expand...

You still don't seem to grasp it.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #516
usskyblue said:
What we had was a manager proven to turn around poor starts. *Whether MR would’ve done so again will never be known.

Now, because of Doug’s decision (and the timing of it), what we’re left with is the complete unknown.

That’s why I and a lot of people around the club and outside believe Robins should’ve been given until Christmas.
Click to expand...
Is that true, or did circumstances allow for us to improve over the course of a season?

If we look solely at our season(s) since back in the Championship.

20/21 - We started playing a lot better when Matty James came into the team.
21/22 - Actually played worse 2nd half of the season, compared to the 1st half.
22/23 - Momentum + having arguably two of the best players in the division (Vik and Gus), as well as a solid squad all round.
23/24 - Results improved after COH returned to the team, ironically results worsened when he dropped out.

Whilst I've no doubt Mark Robins did offer some elements that allowed our teams to get better in the second halves of the season, it's not as if this happens every season and there are also other contributing factors.

Difference being this year is there is no COH, no Vik, no Hamer and we aren't building any momentum.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #517
skybluecam said:
The manager we had had us in 17th place. No one would settle for less than that.
Click to expand...
Yes, 17th in November. So, you're not going to settle for finishing 17th or below? If we do you'll be calling for the new manager's head?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #518
skybluecam said:
On another point - 3 seasons in a row now we've had an absolutely honking start to the season.

22/23 we thought it was the pitch

23/24 we thought it was the squad rebuild

24/25 what's the excuse? The coaching structure conspiracy?

I think that has probably played a big a part as anything else in the sacking. Even if we recovered to a top 10 finish under Robins this season, what's the guarantee the exact same thing wouldn't happen next season?
Click to expand...

"Yeah but Mark always turns it around"

Didn't last year really but the excuse was "Fa cup run"
 
B

Bigelvesy

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #519
skybluecam said:
So would you have accepted it if we finished something like 12th and Robins was sacked in the summer?
Click to expand...
It would make more sense, wouldn't have felt as disrespectful and if announced before the last home game of the season with the right statement, would have allowed the fans to say goodbye, which i think is a considerable part of the disgruntlement.

I personally, would have still kept Robins but i think thats because i desperately wanted it to be him that got us back to the PL, but if it was done in this way instead i could definitely wrap my head around it and understand the justification more.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #520
Ask how long the new manager gets and depending in his answer use it to trip him up either why didn't Robins get the same or how can expect instant success with the budget compared to parachute payments etc
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #521
Pete can you also ask Doug if his expectations of the new manager have been lowered after reading the forum?
 
Reactions: bazza16, Nick and skybluecam

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #522
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Why is he an idiot? Everyone knows that our form for a long time has not been goods enough. Compare our record v top half teams in 2022/23 and 23/24, there's a massive drop off. This season, we can't even beat the teams we're supposed to - just look at the league positions of the teams we've lost to.

Given that you regularly slate half of our team as 'shite' and MR has final sign-off on transfers, I'm surprised you don't hold Robins accountable for anything.


Totally understand that sentiment because I agree with it.

The club has changed immeasurably from the high point of 2022/23. From 2023/24 it’s a totally new team and new core and the old ‘tried and tested’ method might not have been working with this group of players. I've heard several reports of players actively disliking AV as a person and the nature of his departure sums it up.

If that is the case, and ITKs have mentioned things that could suggest that, then it becomes a possibility that MR is no longer the best person for the job.



They were replaced... We hired 4 new coaches for this season. It's not clear if Robins wanted to directly replace AV as an assistant manager or not rather than this new structure. All of this theorised that it's all the evil work of Dr Roberts which I don't think is likely given MR's strength or position at the club. I do recall pundits (maybe McSheffrey?) having concerns about MR's decision to not appoint a proper #2 to replace AV.

The better question would be, who decided on the new coaching structure. Was it pitched to MR and he went for it or was it a forced change. If we were going to hire a number 2 and backed out of it, suggest it may have been Robins' final decision after all. By that point, perhaps the form was that bad, King had got itchy feet and thought about the unthinkable.

If all these decisions were forced on MR with no final say or agency, he may as well have resigned at the start of the season and called out the owners. I just don't think he would've agreed to all this under duress because he doesn't strike me as a weak person.
Click to expand...

I don't think the coaches brought in were replacements.
Lawrence for example was a specialist defensive coach.
It appears that work is now been carried out by a goal keeping coach with a less than sparkling reputation.

I would love to get the answer to your question regarding the new coaching structure. And as I keep saying repeatedly, if it was introduced by Robins why are we insisting the new man sticks with it.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #523
Nick said:
You still don't seem to grasp it.
Click to expand...

No, I grasp it alright.
 

skybluecam

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #524
torchomatic said:
Yes, 17th in November. So, you're not going to settle for finishing 17th or below? If we do you'll be calling for the new manager's head?
Click to expand...
If we finished anywhere near 17th the new guy should get the boot, yes.

Top half minimum, should be top 10.
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2024
  • #525
Nick said:
Behave, it's bullshit. Let's not pretend the poor start is acceptable or irrelevant.
Click to expand...

it’s not bullshit is it, the ones wanting him out were a very loud, ‘stamp our little feet’ style minority. Even a look on here should tell you that.
 
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