Statement from Cov Rugby (1 Viewer)

Captain Dart said:

Most importantly... "Also, as I have already stated elsewhere, we will not deal with SISU."
So Tim's words on Monday prove as hollow as ever.

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Yes and Tim Fisher get out card is , they won't mediate , they won't negotiate , it's the fans fault , etcetera .
We're heard it all before !!!
The Council , The Higgs Charity , Wasps and Cov rugby have gone on record and said drop the legals .

So if Tim Fisher has found investors (who deny they are linked to SISU) who will pay for retail and an artificial pitch. It will have to be an artificial pitch (rugby x 2, football x 3) and a hope to rent it out to the community.
You can't have an artificial pitch in league football
Is it possible it will be our new academy main pitch and training pitch In return for free rent and 50% of the revenue.
At the moment it serves a purpose of a bluff for the rental negotiations with Wasps.
Then once the Wasps deal is done. Then it will be announced. Either that or Tim is planning for non league football!!
If it is the bluff we are still screwed as it all comes down to dropping the legals.
We all know like last time they will fail but try telling SISU that !!!!

"Won't deal with Sisu"
Theey're not mugs then.

dongonzalos said:

So if Tim Fisher has found investors (who deny they are linked to SISU) who will pay for retail and an artificial pitch. It will have to be an artificial pitch (rugby x 2, football x 3) and a hope to rent it out to the community.
You can't have an artificial pitch in league football
Is it possible it will be our new academy main pitch and training pitch In return for free rent and 50% of the revenue.
At the moment it serves a purpose of a bluff for the rental negotiations with Wasps.
Then once the Wasps deal is done. Then it will be announced. Either that or Tim is planning for non league football!!
If it is the bluff we are still screwed as it all comes down to dropping the legals.
We all know like last time they will fail but try telling SISU that !!!!

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It will be a hybrid pitch which does qualify

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dadgad said:

"Won't deal with Sisu"
Theey're not mugs then.

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He is if he thinks CCFC can raise the money without help from SISU.

Saying that he said 12k maximum. Fisher said more. All legal actions stopped. Not a chance. SISU to invest millions for something they don't and won't own. And not let him know it came from them. And that is just for starters.

Here's a thought, albeit a simple one. Maybe Sharp just wants to help the football club. Maybe he isn't too impressed with wasps being here. Maybe he isn't happy that sisu and the ccc playing games has landed crfc with a premiership rival.

Have no evidence in this case that it is happening but it is often the case that there are commissions or fees to be paid to those arranging a financial deal or capital project...... think what happened at the ricoh when that project started.

Yes it would be possible to arrange finance for the project away from Sisu, it seems to me that Ccfc will not be part of the capital project - just tenants. In the current set up then at the point the tenancy is given is when crfc will have to deal with Sisu. Seems to me that Ccfc are not part of the capital project at all so won't gain from the capital value so the claim of not dealing with Sisu on the capital project could be true.. All this talk of ops co and prop co doesn't have to mean Ccfc or sbs&l or any other Sisu related entities will actually own part of either.

So much for having to own our own stadium to survive! It would seem the club will not increase its asset base by any great value. They will get a lease of less than 99 years (term left on crfc lease) which will be valued on shared incomes which will to a great degree depend on stadium size. Crfc own the long lease will control the project for the best benefit of crfc as they are duty bound to do. For the foreseeable future or even in the Aviva premiership will they need more than 12000 capacity.?

Obviously it won't cost Sisu much for Ccfc to be tenants.

So it boils down to what some of us argued years ago. The right to income is what is important not owning the stadium for Ccfc . So the emphasis on ownership was for whose benefit ......?

Yes crfc are talking to Ccfc director(s) about the project but in what capacity?

Careful use of words by fisher and sharp. The focus of this project is crfc not ccfc. The football club is nothing more than an income stream for the project to pin the finance on

As always the focus of the fans and the media is being managed and directed for a purpose.... It still remains that Ccfc doesn't seem to be anyone's priority other than the fans and even that is severely tested

So this all benefits who ......?

Just my opinion

SkyBlueZack said:

Here's a thought, albeit a simple one. Maybe Sharp just wants to help the football club. Maybe he isn't too impressed with wasps being here. Maybe he isn't happy that sisu and the ccc playing games has landed crfc with a premiership rival.

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Attendances up and players loaned from Wasps.
Nothing negative really.
Well not until they allow Sisu into their business.

Well said, OSB.

So much of this doesn't seem to point to being to the benefit of what this club really needs to move forwards.

Yes, a few crumbs of comfort and a bit of revenue, but thought the whole point of what Fisher has been constantly saying is that of our needing to own our own ground and be receiving 365 days of all of the revenue in it's entirety, not just a part share.

Cov will probably never need more than 12,000, so I can't see any reason why the BPA would ever be increased past that and of course this will be Cov rugby's stadium and therefore the number one factor in all the thinking will be of what is best for Cov rugby. CCFC will just be clinging to the shirt tails surely.

Almost like its a bargaining chip to get the best deal out of Wasps?

I will bet a lot of money that we stay at the Ricoh.

SkyBlueZack said:

Maybe he isn't too impressed with wasps being here.

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What could possibly give you that idea

I wouldn't bet on it. I think it has all come down to two property deals and parties taking their pound of flesh from those. Ryton & BPA.

For value to be maximised at BPA then Ccfc probably need to be there to make the capital finance work is my guess

But just my opinion, and not alleging any wrong doing.

AVWskyblue said:

It will be a hybrid pitch which does qualify

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It would have to be a hell of a lot better than the one at the Ricoh, which can't withstand 2 teams on it.
This is expected to take on 2 rugby teams, 3 football teams and then also be rented out?

dongonzalos said:

This is expected to take on 2 rugby teams, 3 football teams and then also be rented out?

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You are assuming that Cov Bears and Cov Utd will still play there. Neither of those are a certainty. What other football team plays there?

Otis said:

Well said, OSB.

So much of this doesn't seem to point to being to the benefit of what this club really needs to move forwards.

Yes, a few crumbs of comfort and a bit of revenue, but thought the whole point of what Fisher has been constantly saying is that of our needing to own our own ground and be receiving 365 days of all of the revenue in it's entirety, not just a part share.

Cov will probably never need more than 12,000, so I can't see any reason why the BPA would ever be increased past that and of course this will be Cov rugby's stadium and therefore the number one factor in all the thinking will be of what is best for Cov rugby. CCFC will just be clinging to the shirt tails surely.

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If you look at last season where we had by CCFC terms a good season we had 10 gates over 12K, 2 of them being over 17k and 3 being over 15k. if you take them 10 games, work on an average of £10.00 a ticket that £ 253,040.00 of ticket revenue we would have lost last season with a 12k capacity ground. The truth is that the actual figure would be higher because as per league rules 10% of that 12k has to be allocatted away as a minimum so you're already down to 10,800 home allocation and then you have to factor in segregation. How many times last season did we have an away section with 1.2K in it? Not many I should think. The real figure of lost ticket revenue therefore has to be higher than £250K maybe nearer or over £300k.

Just how much is this "extra" revenue going to be worth? Last season with higher attendances than we could achieve at the BPA we got something like £78K from the food IIRC as a share with non of the associated costs of supplying the catering. How much higher would the revenue be if we took 100% of the match day F & B profit? It's got a lot of ground to catch up with from lost ticket revenue.

Then you have the 365 days a year revenue. Will we actually be entitled to any of this? It's not clear from the JS statement. If we are entitled to a share what's the cost of this? What will it be worth a year to us? Is it going to make up lost for potential lost ticket revenue?

Then you have the knock on effects to the fan base. If you cant consistently buy a match ticket what is there to keep you engaged? What is there to keep you buying merchandise? Will there be a negative effect on another income stream? Will it disengage so many fans that actually over time a 12K stadium becomes to big because the business plan leads to a down cycling of the club due to an isolation and disconnect effect on the community? Would this be of benefit to Wasps?

Tim may well have plans, may well have the finances in place but does he have a business plan? He doesn't even seem to have a deal agreed in principle with JS of how this will work going by the statement that has been made. A ground share with CCFC is one of the options that they are exploring.

Like I said yesterday, this has more holes in it than my lucky pants.

chiefdave said:

You are assuming that Cov Bears and Cov Utd will still play there. Neither of those are a certainty. What other football team plays there?

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It would be us, Cov utd, Cov ladies utd and resumably us under 21 games also.

skybluetony176 said:

It would be us, Cov utd, Cov ladies utd and resumably us under 21 games also.

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Given what Sharp said when the Cov Utd move to the Butts was announced I wouldn't bet on them still being there in the unlikely event we move in.

skybluetony176 said:

Then you have the 365 days a year revenue. Will we actually be entitled to any of this? It's not clear from the JS statement. If we are entitled to a share what's the cost of this? What will it be worth a year to us? Is it going to make up lost for potential lost ticket revenue?

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So how does CCFC get 365 day income when CRFC has its own match days at the stadium? Event income needs time to build and is limited by the size of the facilities and if not specifically one club or the other is shared. Of course if CRFC put its own events on then CCFC don't get a share I would guess. Or if all events shared then events CCFC would normally class as theirs are shared. There will be retail well yes for a start there would be a club shop(s). Stadium naming rights you would expect CCFC to get a share but CCFC is only a tenant. Will advertising be shared? Is there room in the plan for any parking related income?

Then yes there are the costs associated with all this, something Fisher does not like to talk about, it would be reasonable to expect that the benefit of shared turnover to CCFC would be after deduction of costs and VAT (sounds familiar). So many unanswered questions

So what's in it for Tim's investors? The Butts site is only 8 acres, insufficient to build much housing/retail/leisure.
A 60 acre site on which there is lots of housing makes sense, an 8 acre site hemmed in by existing development doesn't.

What if ccfc did move to BPA or anywhere else for that matter but Coventry United moved the other way into the Ricoh how long would it take for them to become THE major team in Cov. and before anyone dismisses that possibility remember less than 10 years ago Burton Albion were a tiny backwater outfit now rubbing shoulders with the likes of Leeds United, Wolves and former European cup winners Villa and Forest !

chiefdave said:

You are assuming that Cov Bears and Cov Utd will still play there. Neither of those are a certainty. What other football team plays there?

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A ladies team, you sexist bugger!
Kicking the others out doesn't really strike well with whole community ethos idea. I can't see that happening.

weecohawena said:

Almost like its a bargaining chip to get the best deal out of Wasps?

I will bet a lot of money that we stay at the Ricoh.

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Fisher now knows attendances will drop like a stone if he moves out of Coventry again.
This is a desperate attempt to stay in the City and put 2 fingers up to Wasps.
Wasps are not listening, Cov are playing him along, SISU won't call off the lawyers.
Matters will come to a head at the end of the Ricoh deal, up till then we can expect brinkmanship.

skybluetony176 said:

It would be us, Cov utd, Cov ladies utd and resumably us under 21 games also.

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Cov Utd ladies play at Coleshill

chiefdave said:

Given what Sharp said when the Cov Utd move to the Butts was announced I wouldn't bet on them still being there in the unlikely event we move in.

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What did he say that makes you think that chief?

Moff said:

Cov Utd ladies play at Coleshill

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Jon Sharp quote

“That would allow all sorts of things to go on in the stadium such as football, athletics and so on. We already have an agreement with Coventry United and Coventry United Ladies.”

olderskyblue said:

What did he say that makes you think that chief?

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presumably not this quote....

“This is not short term, it is all part of our long term strategy and we feel it ticks all sorts of boxes and hopefully all clubs will prosper.”

olderskyblue said:

What did he say that makes you think that chief?

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I'll dig the quote out later but to paraphrase it was that CCFC had full knowledge of the CU move and it wouldn't impact on any future groundshare with CCFC.

olderskyblue said:

Jon Sharp quote

“That would allow all sorts of things to go on in the stadium such as football, athletics and so on. We already have an agreement with Coventry United and Coventry United Ladies.”

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Ok, I know they currently play at Coleshill, didn't know they were moving with the men. Interesting to see how they sort out the fixture congestion.

chiefdave said:

I'll dig the quote out later but to paraphrase it was that CCFC had full knowledge of the CU move and it wouldn't impact on any future groundshare with CCFC.

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Yes I recall that one. To me that just confirms Cov Utd would still be there if CCFC came. That fits better with his quote above that the bears, the ladies team and Cov Utd are at the Butts long term.

Moff said:

Ok, I know they currently play at Coleshill, didn't know they were moving with the men. Interesting to see how they sort out the fixture congestion.

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And the pitch, 3 football teams and two egg shaped ball teams.
Then renting it to the local community as well.
It would need to be one hell of a pitch if it isn't artificial.

Moff said:

Ok, I know they currently play at Coleshill, didn't know they were moving with the men. Interesting to see how they sort out the fixture congestion.

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So the men will be moving in with the women and playing at the Butts.

Sounds a little interesting :smuggrin:

Moff said:

Cov Utd ladies play at Coleshill

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Next season they are are the Butts.