Statement from administrator (8 Viewers)

SkyblueBazza · May 21, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
I must admit; I do wonder what SISU think they'll get if they are successful.

Gates would be pitiful, and their reputation within the 'football family' would be like that afforded Wimbledon's owners when they moved to Milton Keynes.

No income, universally hated and with ever increasing losses; what the hell is the end game?

Maybe it will at least mean someone can bid for everything from SISU...& then buy half/all(?) the stadium?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · May 21, 2013

Godiva said:
Is that even possible?
It's an auction ... I don't think you can 'condition' a bid.

Well, I was thinking it through. Why not? If it's part of a bid, surely the administrator is obliged to factor it into his thinking.

Conditional offers are common in business. In fact, thinking it through; most offers in business are conditional on due diligence.

Not that the latter practise is know to SISU. Ahem.....

wingy · May 21, 2013

It really is subtley Vague I've read it again and I now see that he does'nt necessarily control that final bit after the bidding and the League will make the decision .

Question ,he referrs to the 3 Objectives of Admin but seems to be focusing on One??:thinking about:

Mary_Mungo_Midge · May 21, 2013

SkyblueBazza said:
Maybe it will at least mean someone can bid for everything from SISU...& then buy half/all(?) the stadium?

According to Fisher, they're moving. So, it might mean some, or total ownership of the Fisher Arena; but when? And where? And who covers ever-increasing losses in the interim?

BurbageSkyBlues · May 21, 2013

Must admit, very cautious about this statement. Everyone can read it differently, as Godiva says...to fit their agenda (I'd use the words hope or belief, but lets not dwell on semantics )

It is cleverly worded indeed. My main concern is the bit about being 'within the gift'..... This could be construed to indicate almost anything you like, in that they can do what they choose to. So, if they want to give it to Holdings, they could -

Godiva · May 21, 2013

ccfcway said:
so lets say SISU win the bid with an offer of £2.

then what ?. A team playing outside Cov, with no income, paying more rent than they did last year, no fans and as it stands, no sponsorship.

When a buyer is found ACL will be open to negotiations. If sisu wins those negotiations will cost ACL dearly. Either ACL becomes a company under SBS&L or they lose all business from the club. Very expensive however you look at it. And it will most likely require new faces at the ACL side of the table.

That is how I see it.

stupot07 · May 21, 2013

Godiva said:
When a buyer is found ACL will be open to negotiations. If sisu wins those negotiations will cost ACL dearly. Either ACL becomes a company under SBS&L or they lose all business from the club. Very expensive however you look at it. And it will most likely require new faces at the ACL side of the table.

That is how I see it.

If Sisu win it, ACL won't negotiated them them.

italiahorse · May 21, 2013

Surely no one would make an offer for the Club if they are not certain where the Golden Share would be. (Except SISU who know where it is.)

You could be buying the debt but not the golden share.

italiahorse · May 21, 2013

Come on ACL make a winning bid imp:

wingy · May 21, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
According to Fisher, they're moving. So, it might mean some, or total ownership of the Fisher Arena; but when? And where? And who covers ever-increasing losses in the interim?

More debt loaded into the Club
Did i read on here last night that Holdings also had a debenture issued through ARVO on the 22nd March through some Court in Ireland ,or was it a dream.

Post be Bennetts Afro possibly.:thinking about:

pb2875 · May 21, 2013

Maybe we are missing a point the regarding SISU bidding for the CCFC Ltd business.

I'm not sure they want to retain the football club, but all this is meant to be a way of inflating any third party offer to try and get maximum return in real cash terms. If we look at all that has been spoken / written by various stakeholders SISU would commit business suicide by actually carrying on. I think everyone is pretty much agreed on that. TF is banking on the sky blue blood of many supporters and gambling that they will turn up despite lots of'hot air'.

If they acquire CCFC Ltd for even the real AVRO debt level, no money actually changes hands and SISU's position is exactly as it was before. If they do try to up the ante by calling other interested parties bluff by purporting to bid they're hoping for an increased real cash offer for CCFC.

A very dangerous game to be playing but I (and I'm definitely not pro SISU) think a gamble they are prepared to take to get the biggest possible cash return.

Wonder if this is right or a millions miles from the truth?

SkyBlue_Bear83 · May 21, 2013

So if we are still in admin come August are SISU/Fisher allowed to press ahead with there plans to ground share outside the city or would it be up to the administrator to decide where we would play?

WFC · May 21, 2013

He's never going to make statements that are black and white when operating in a situation that so grey and unclear. That would just be creating a noose to hang yourself with. Consequentially, yes people can make it fit what they want.

Personally I think it at least offers you a chink of light. He seems to say that the FL will ultimately decide who to give the place in the league and that once a deal has basically been agreed ( which of course will be subject to the g.share been given) then the discussions with the FL about the g.share will take place as they would have something concrete they could take to them that they would need to grant the share , if they are happy with everything and willing to issue the share then the deal can go ahead.

Seems to be saying he has no control on what Holdings/fisher says or does, which he doesn't and suggests ACL are being cooperative whilst saying still waiting on others.

At least gives some hope that a deal could be done but ultimately it will all depend on who the FL will grant the share to.

It's possible the football league will have the choice of granting the League share to either CCFC Holdings with a plan to play in a temporary home while building a new stadium or CCFC Ltd with a plan to continue to play at the Ricoh with possibly having an interest in that operation.

Your club has effectively been split in two and the two parts could end up in different ownership and it will be up to the FL who gets to play. If this is indeed the case then the destiny of your club will be decided by the FL and the fans through the pressure they bring to bare on them.

The difficulty will be that if Holdings don't get it expect them to fight it in court.

dadgad · May 21, 2013

italiahorse said:
Surely no one would make an offer for the Club if they are not certain where the Golden Share would be. (Except SISU who know where it is.)

You could be buying the debt but not the golden share.

Reading between the lines I'd say the Administrator is clearly saying that the club and holdings are one and the same.
The key word is "purporting". This cannot be underestimated imo.
He obviosly takes a dim view of Fisher trying to suggest they are different entities.

Covcraig@bury · May 21, 2013

so it looks like SISU, ACL and SBT have all managed to piss off the administrator. sure that will help things.

He says "I want to reiterate my position as Joint Administrator for Coventry City FC Limited" who's the other administrator then?
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How I read this is , let the administrator ask the questions of ACL/SISU and the Trust stop pestering me so I can get on with my job "FFS"

James Smith · May 21, 2013

stupot07 said:
If Sisu win it, ACL won't negotiated them them.

Neither would I given the way SISU have behaved.

SkyblueBazza · May 21, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
According to Fisher, they're moving. So, it might mean some, or total ownership of the Fisher Arena; but when? And where? And who covers ever-increasing losses in the interim?

That's because TF is doing right by his SISU employer by carrying on..."business as usual" which they would be mad not to. Stopping to wait & see would be defeatist.

BrisbaneBronco · May 21, 2013

italiahorse said:
Surely no one would make an offer for the Club if they are not certain where the Golden Share would be. (Except SISU who know where it is.)

You could be buying the debt but not the golden share.

We know where the Golden Share is. It is with the FL, who will choose who to give it to.
The lease/rental agreement is in Ltd plus god knows what else. Would SISU risk buying that back and then FL give GS to PH1V?

WFC · May 21, 2013

dadgad said:
Reading between the lines I'd say the Administrator is clearly saying that the club and holdings are one and the same.
The key word is "purporting". This cannot be underestimated imo.
He obviosly takes a dim view of Fisher trying to suggest they are different entities.

You can see why it is so confusing. In terms of thinking of the 'football club' yes they are one and the same because the assets of 'the football club' have been split across the two, lease, gate receipts etc in one, player contracts, stock etc in another. Therefore to operate 'the football club' both are required; however they are separate legal entities which allows fisher to claim the stuff in LTD is some unimportant bit just dealing with property and they are really 'the club'.

With both owned by the same people it is a little academic, but now Ltd is in admin and can be sold to someone else it becomes a real bitch fight about who, Holdings or Ltd is 'the club'. From a fans perspective it will come down to who the FL grants the share to because from a fans perspective it is the team called Coventry City who play in the League.

Holdings will claim they have a beneficial right to the share because they have been running the club and Ltd just deals with the lease for the stadium they use. Any eventual owner of Ltd would argue it's Ltd, the right to play in the league was registered to them' they have the lease on the stadium required to play in the league and they have been receiving the gate receipts.

Ultimately Holdings would probably take it to court and the main thing the court will be interested in will be have the FL followed their own rules and regs about who they issue the share to.

The FL will decide who the real Coventry City is and then a court will either confirm this or overturn it based up on how well the FL have followed process.

oldskyblue58 · May 21, 2013

but if SISU take back CCFC Ltd they will own both companies and FL wont give the share to anyone else (PHiV included)

WFC · May 21, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
but if SISU take back CCFC Ltd they will own both companies and FL wont give the share to anyone else (PHiV included)

My god an easy one to answer, that's a novelty YES.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 21, 2013

So stop sale of ltd lets get a definative answer then if it is in Limited let the bidding begin. I would have thought that pressurer should be brought to delay the sale just a thought it would then take the pressure off the administrator

sky blue john · May 21, 2013

What is the best outcome for the company ?
I am try to think from a neutral perspective but finding it difficult at the moment !

Godiva · May 21, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
but if SISU take back CCFC Ltd they will own both companies and FL wont give the share to anyone else (PHiV included)

WFC said:
My god an easy one to answer, that's a novelty YES.

Lol - I don't think it was a question ...

luwalla · May 21, 2013

i read this new statement, and thought.. ahhhhhh i get it now!!

then i took five minutes to understand it .. and i thought , nope i still dont

then i read it again & thought.. yeaaaaahhhh i get whats going on now!!!

then i read it again & thought.. nope , still dont !

Oz Howie · May 21, 2013

Surely the best outcome for the company that is in debt by millions should be the money from the highest bidder - or is that too simple?

RoboCCFC90 · May 21, 2013

luwalla said:
i read this new statement, and thought.. ahhhhhh i get it now!!

then i took five minutes to understand it .. and i thought , nope i still dont

then i read it again & thought.. yeaaaaahhhh i get whats going on now!!!

then i read it again & thought.. nope , still dont !

Don't fret mate, I have the same feeling of uknowing when I tried figuring out what was going on in my ex fiancee's head..

MusicDating · May 21, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
but if SISU take back CCFC Ltd they will own both companies and FL wont give the share to anyone else (PHiV included)

and then would ACL have to cave and give SISU what they want to play at the Ricoh?...:thinking about:

WFC · May 21, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
So stop sale of ltd lets get a definative answer then if it is in Limited let the bidding begin. I would have thought that pressurer should be brought to delay the sale just a thought it would then take the pressure off the administrator

You will never get a definitive answer to the question who is the real Coventry City in terms of Holdings or Ltd like that as it is somewhat impossible.

It poses a basic question that is at the very heart of football in this country. What is a football club?

An interesting question in deed!

The dictionary definitions that are applicable say a club is...

1. A group of persons organized for a social, literary, athletic, political, or other purpose: They organized a computer club.
2. The building or rooms occupied by such a group.
3. An organization that offers its subscribers certain benefits, as discounts, bonuses, or interest, in return for regular purchases or payments: a book club; a record club; a Christmas club.

A football club as we know it has all of these but two are transient only one is constant. The buildings change, the organisation running it changes, but although individuals within the group may change there is some continuity that runs through it.

That is why I say the destiny of CCFC is in the hands of the FL and the fans. They will decide who CCFC are together. The FL will decide who plays, but the fans will decide whether they support them, whether they represent Coventry fans and the city of Coventry.without the fans you have a side but not a club and all owners of football clubs and the FL would do well to remember this.

Voice_of_Reason · May 21, 2013

What are "the three main purposes of administration" Appleton refers to ?

dadgad · May 21, 2013

MusicDating said:
and then would ACL have to cave and give SISU what they want to play at the Ricoh?...:thinking about:

But the Administrator used the word "purport"
He means that he runs the club and is asking for Fisher to shut up. Surely by threatening to take the club out of Cov he is threatening to further reduce income and isn't the remit of the administrator to secure the best policy for the business going forward.
Cannot help thinking that Sisu have not helped their cause here.

ccfcway · May 21, 2013

Voice_of_Reason said:
What are "the three main purposes of administration" Appleton refers to ?

1) never expose SISU to light
2) never give SISU water
and..
3) never, never feed them after midnight

oldskyblue58 · May 21, 2013

purposes of administration

Rescuing the company as a going concern. (Note: this purpose is to rescue the company as opposed to rescuing the business undertaken by the company.)

- Or, achieving a better result for the company's creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration).

- Or, realising property to make a distribution to one or or more secured or preferential creditors. (winding up)

Jack Griffin · May 21, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
but if SISU take back CCFC Ltd they will own both companies and FL wont give the share to anyone else (PHiV included)

The FL are being sucked into a game of pass the parcel with the Golden Share..

Unless they change their rules to prohibit the sort of manipulation going on at the moment to discharge obligations & write off debts they'll get other predators moving in on clubs.

Bennets Afro · May 21, 2013

The post about the new debenture was in this thread. I didn't do the post my self and don't quite know what it means

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threa...-and-reply-if-possible...?p=443445#post443445

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