Standard of Refereeing (2 Viewers)

Hobo · Dec 10, 2020

Most people judge a referees decision, after watching countless replays.

Even worse, sometimes from not understamding the actual laws of the game.

A ref can only give a decision on what they see. The TV camera is often viewing from a different angle.

How many angles do 20,000 fans have compared to the referees angle?

lordy_87 · Dec 10, 2020

The refs definitely are better in the championship. Most of them in league 1 and 2 are absolutely diabolical, every time you thought you'd seen it all, another unfathomable decision would be made.

Johhny Blue · Dec 10, 2020

[QUOTE="Hobo, post: 2147155, member:
A ref can only give a decision on what they see. The TV camera is often viewing from a different angle.

How many angles do 20,000 fans have compared to the referees angle?
[/QUOTE]
20,000 times?

Johhny Blue · Dec 10, 2020

Who’s old enough to remember Roger Kirkpatrick.?The only referee the fans loved.
We even had him come for a few testimonial games. I remember the ball rolling towards him and he had a shot at goal.

Nick · Dec 11, 2020

Northeast sky blue said:
I think most people would be happy with a bit of consistency, referees seem to struggle with that even within the same match

Exactly, you only have to look at challenges that have gone in on our players.

Only the other night the ref bottled giving their player a 2nd yellow for a clear bookable offence.

kg82 · Dec 11, 2020

Nick said:
Exactly, you only have to look at challenges that have gone in on our players.

Only the other night the ref bottled giving their player a 2nd yellow for a clear bookable offence.

Exactly. The thing I’ve found is that most match threads are littered with what the ref has or hasn’t done. That’s just us. It’s going to be like that for every team I’d imagine. If one of the main talking points for every team is the officiating, then they’re not doing their job correctly. I’d be happy with a couple of decisions that look dodgy, but it seems to be every few minutes.

Fergusons_Beard · Dec 11, 2020

It’s all about the lack of consistency-most fans would be happy if different refs applied the laws consistently across games.

Take this seasons penalties-We’ve had 2 decisions given against us (Wilson’s ones) where the exact same situation (O’Hare V Derby) wasn’t given.

Fans will obviously see this as unfair.

Issue comes (as others have already said) with subjectivity-every single decision (even though there’s a clear law defining it) could be interpreted in a different way.

There Should be some Leeway for refs to use their professional judgment but equally there should be a hell of a lot of agreement that in certain scenarios (like pens) referees have to stick to the rules of the game & make a consistent, positive decision.

That all comes from communication & regular reviews with colleagues.

Should be proactive-so that if a ref makes a mistake he is able to talk about it afterwards and the next time that he’s in that same scenario on a pitch he makes the correct one.

Why can’t refs use the same technology that teams & players use to develop their refereeing skills?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sky Blue Pete · Dec 11, 2020

Fergusons_Beard said:
It’s all about the lack of consistency-most fans would be happy if different refs applied the laws consistently across games.

Take this seasons penalties-We’ve had 2 decisions given against us (Wilson’s ones) where the exact same situation (O’Hare V Derby) wasn’t given.

Fans will obviously see this as unfair.

Issue comes (as others have already said) with subjectivity-every single decision (even though there’s a clear law defining it) could be interpreted in a different way.

There Should be some Leeway for refs to use their professional judgment but equally there should be a hell of a lot of agreement that in certain scenarios (like pens) referees have to stick to the rules of the game & make a consistent, positive decision.

That all comes from communication & regular reviews with colleagues.

Should be proactive-so that if a ref makes a mistake he is able to talk about it afterwards and the next time that he’s in that same scenario on a pitch he makes the correct one.

Why can’t refs use the same technology that teams & players use to develop their refereeing skills?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

At the referees association meetings in coventry we look at videos and discuss decisions. It’s much much more subjective than most would think

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee · Dec 11, 2020

Sky Blue Pete said:
At the referees association meetings in coventry we look at videos and discuss decisions. It’s much much more subjective than most would think

It has to be subjective. I don't buy in to the whole "the rules/laws (I've forgotten which is correct already!) should be so clearly defined that every ref makes the exact same decision every time. 'There's contact' is the perfect example of it. How do you deem what enough contact is to be a penalty? If I touch someone's shoulder is that a penalty? Or does the contact have to be hard enough for someone to fall? If so, that's entirely subjective as it will be very different for a 6"5 centre back and a 5"5 winger. People will talk about consistency, but it also goes in our favour. Hamer has got away with so much this season, little niggles here or there that would warrant a much earlier yellow card or a second yellow on a few occasions, that everyone on here would be crying about if it was an opposition player. I am not saying the standard of refereeing is great, but there is a huge element of bias in fans opinions of refs in that they only seem to notice the things that go against them so that adds to the feeling of inconsistency.

kg82 · Dec 11, 2020

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee said:
It has to be subjective. I don't buy in to the whole "the rules/laws (I've forgotten which is correct already!) should be so clearly defined that every ref makes the exact same decision every time. 'There's contact' is the perfect example of it. How do you deem what enough contact is to be a penalty? If I touch someone's shoulder is that a penalty? Or does the contact have to be hard enough for someone to fall? If so, that's entirely subjective as it will be very different for a 6"5 centre back and a 5"5 winger. People will talk about consistency, but it also goes in our favour. Hamer has got away with so much this season, little niggles here or there that would warrant a much earlier yellow card or a second yellow on a few occasions, that everyone on here would be crying about if it was an opposition player. I am not saying the standard of refereeing is great, but there is a huge element of bias in fans opinions of refs in that they only seem to notice the things that go against them so that adds to the feeling of inconsistency.

True. It goes the other way as well though. Fans trying to be impartial to the point where they miss things going against us. Think I did it the other night with the one on Biamou.

jordan210 · Dec 11, 2020

Nick said:
Exactly, you only have to look at challenges that have gone in on our players.

Only the other night the ref bottled giving their player a 2nd yellow for a clear bookable offence.

Consistency is the main issue. How many times have we picked up a yellow. They do the same/worse straight after and nothing?

is this because most teams surround the ref at every challenge when we don’t ?

on Tuesday every time one of our players who was on a yellow made any sort of challenge Rotherham started to chirp the ref.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 11, 2020

kg82 said:
True. It goes the other way as well though. Fans trying to be impartial to the point where they miss things going against us. Think I did it the other night with the one on Biamou.

I think if both sets of fans say you’re out to get them you probably had a bad game. That said it won’t be intentional just a reflection of the lack of quality available

stevefloyd · Dec 11, 2020

I have said and will always maintain that to be a professional referee you should have played either professional football or semi professional, this would at least give some of the lower league players a chance to stay in the game of a sort and at least they are a little more streetwise about the game... Also they need to get rid of the fucking lunatic idiots that dictate to the referees and hand some sort of common sense back to the man in the middle...apart from that I fucking detest the useless fuckers at the best of times because when they put their little hitler suits on they become fucking big time charlies, I am not saying its an easy job but they make it harder by trying the dictator shit, they should all aim to be as good as Pierluigi Collina was...rant over

Adge · Dec 11, 2020

stevefloyd said:
I have said and will always maintain that to be a professional referee you should have played either professional football or semi professional, this would at least give some of the lower league players a chance to stay in the game of a sort and at least they are a little more streetwise about the game... Also they need to get rid of the fucking lunatic idiots that dictate to the referees and hand some sort of common sense back to the man in the middle...apart from that I fucking detest the useless fuckers at the best of times because when they put their little hitler suits on they become fucking big time charlies, I am not saying its an easy job but they make it harder by trying the dictator shit, they should all aim to be as good as Pierluigi Collina was...rant over

Poor. I can assure you that I’m not Hitler in a black uniform. Have you thought that many referees do it (like myself) just because they like football?

Adge · Dec 11, 2020

jordan210 said:
What I never understand with Refs is they are meant to keep up with some of the fastest athletes in the world for 90 mins. But quite a few are 40+ and look over weight.

Maybe football needs a ref in each half to combat this.

Again this is a myth that referees (especially at our level) are unfit.
There is a fitness (inc a test) that has to be maintained throughout the season.

Adge · Dec 11, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
I can't ever remember thinking a ref had a good game in L1 and L2.

So you don’t think the officials at the L2 playoff final against Exeter had a good game?

Adge · Dec 11, 2020

Sky Blue Pete said:
As an aside my son and I are trying to complete our training and there are no courses cause of covid and no plans. Idiots

If you need any help before/after let me know or want to discuss anything.

Adge · Dec 11, 2020

Northeast sky blue said:
I think most people would be happy with a bit of consistency, referees seem to struggle with that even within the same match

Isn’t VAR 100% consistency? After all, this is what we wanted all along wasn’t it?

Northeast sky blue · Dec 11, 2020

Adge said:
Isn’t VAR 100% consistency? After all, this is what we wanted all along wasn’t it?

I'm not sure the officials interpretation of VAR is consistent

Skybluefaz · Dec 11, 2020

Adge said:
So you don’t think the officials at the L2 playoff final against Exeter had a good game?

No they should have sent Doyle off

mark82 · Dec 11, 2020

Adge said:
Poor. I can assure you that I’m not Hitler in a black uniform. Have you thought that many referees do it (like myself) just because they like football?

What colour uniform do you wear?

mark82 · Dec 11, 2020

Adge said:
Isn’t VAR 100% consistency? After all, this is what we wanted all along wasn’t it?

It's still very subjective isn't it? VAR has its problems but it does help. I'd happily take VAR at our level but know many others won't.

Hutch11 · Dec 11, 2020

Bring back Paul Danson

Adge · Dec 11, 2020

mark82 said:
What colour uniform do you wear?

Black with a moustache.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 11, 2020

stevefloyd said:
I have said and will always maintain that to be a professional referee you should have played either professional football or semi professional, this would at least give some of the lower league players a chance to stay in the game of a sort and at least they are a little more streetwise about the game... Also they need to get rid of the fucking lunatic idiots that dictate to the referees and hand some sort of common sense back to the man in the middle...apart from that I fucking detest the useless fuckers at the best of times because when they put their little hitler suits on they become fucking big time charlies, I am not saying its an easy job but they make it harder by trying the dictator shit, they should all aim to be as good as Pierluigi Collina was...rant over

I started refereeing when I was 16, guess now I know why lunatic parents charge onto the pitch to swear in people’s faces because little Charlie was ruled offside

Nick · Dec 11, 2020

Some Sunday League refs were decent, knew how to speak to people and have a laugh and just enjoyed it. Even if they made dodgy decisions they could diffuse it.

Then you had the others who just thought they should be in the Premier League and were absolute dicks, no shock they are the ones that get most of the stick.

Abusing volunteers who do it for kids football is shocking from the parents though. Although even when my daughter played netball I was trying to get her to play the dark arts but she was too polite.

The main issue with high level refs is that they arent answerable, even with VAR they arent made to backup their decisions to say why things are given. It isn't the technology fucking VAR up it's the gimps who are operating it.

robbiethemole · Dec 11, 2020

Nick said:
Some Sunday League refs were decent, knew how to speak to people and have a laugh and just enjoyed it. Even if they made dodgy decisions they could diffuse it.

Then you had the others who just thought they should be in the Premier League and were absolute dicks, no shock they are the ones that get most of the stick.

Abusing volunteers who do it for kids football is shocking from the parents though. Although even when my daughter played netball I was trying to get her to play the dark arts but she was too polite.

The main issue with high level refs is that they arent answerable, even with VAR they arent made to backup their decisions to say why things are given. It isn't the technology fucking VAR up it's the gimps who are operating it.

pretty sure you're not allowed a two-footed tackle in netball

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 11, 2020

Nick said:
Some Sunday League refs were decent, knew how to speak to people and have a laugh and just enjoyed it. Even if they made dodgy decisions they could diffuse it.

Then you had the others who just thought they should be in the Premier League and were absolute dicks, no shock they are the ones that get most of the stick.

Abusing volunteers who do it for kids football is shocking from the parents though. Although even when my daughter played netball I was trying to get her to play the dark arts but she was too polite.

The main issue with high level refs is that they arent answerable, even with VAR they arent made to backup their decisions to say why things are given. It isn't the technology fucking VAR up it's the gimps who are operating it.

I got paid £25 for doing the games in the Coventry junior leagues. A lot of parents and coaches a complete embarrassment giving pure dog’s abuse to people doing their best. I also used to do 5-a side, players just threatening me and screaming in my face so I went home in tears and didn’t bother again.

If you want better refs give them a chance. If some really are just weak then we need to find better ways of raising their performance.

clint van damme · Dec 11, 2020

I'll never get as frustrated with referees as I did when we were in the top flight and the blatant bias towards big clubs and England international's.

What we're experiencing is incompetence, back then it was plain cheating

Sky Blue Pete · Dec 11, 2020

Adge said:
If you need any help before/after let me know or want to discuss anything.

Any names as to how we can get started would be great. Birmingham county not interested. I’ve done it for 10 years in my 20’s and enjoyed it and thanks Adge

Johhny Blue · Dec 11, 2020

mark82 said:
What colour uniform do you wear?

Wrong thread mate

Sky Blue Pete · Dec 11, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I got paid £25 for doing the games in the Coventry junior leagues. A lot of parents and coaches a complete embarrassment giving pure dog’s abuse to people doing their best. I also used to do 5-a side, players just threatening me and screaming in my face so I went home in tears and didn’t bother again.

If you want better refs give them a chance. If some really are just weak then we need to find better ways of raising their performance.

Yep I had a dad in an under 12 game!!!!!!! Storm on to the pitch after a foul (that I’d given) to say I should be protecting his son. It was an under 12 game, I was about 17 and he called me a cxxt, wanker, bastard and many other things. I was very composed, checked the kid was ok, asked him to leave the pitch, he wouldn’t, asked the manager to remove him from the pitch, he wouldn’t. I threatened to abandon the game. He eventually left. I finished the game, an off duty police office came and gave me his contact details as a witness to the verbal abuse. Heard nothing more from the fa or the police. I cycled everywhere at that point. I sobbed all the way home.

What kind of dad does that over a bloody game.

Was it you Grendel? Lol

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 11, 2020

mark82 said:
What colour uniform do you wear?

He wears brown.

Nick · Dec 11, 2020

robbiethemole said:
pretty sure you're not allowed a two-footed tackle in netball

No but I was trying to teach her play to the whistle.

A girl got hit in the face with the ball and start crying, my daughter stops playing to ask if shes OK.

She also refused to dummy throw the ball in their faces to make them flinch and move.

Nick · Dec 11, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I got paid £25 for doing the games in the Coventry junior leagues. A lot of parents and coaches a complete embarrassment giving pure dog’s abuse to people doing their best. I also used to do 5-a side, players just threatening me and screaming in my face so I went home in tears and didn’t bother again.

If you want better refs give them a chance. If some really are just weak then we need to find better ways of raising their performance.

That's the thing though, some refs were always decent. Obviously people make mistakes but when people just act like dicks and give it attitude as if they can never be wrong and nobody can ask them anything thats when theres issues.

There are also straight up cheats and people who are far too unfit.

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