Stand Your Ground Law (1 Viewer)

Otis · Jul 23, 2018

A US thing. Anyone heard of it? Can't say I have.

A man pushes another man over in a row about parking and the guy on the floor simply gets his gun out shoots the guy who pushed him and kills him.

No charges.

Stand your ground: No charges after man shot dead in Florida parking row - Man shot dead in Florida parking row

It's like the Purge.

Gazolba · Jul 24, 2018

No charges yet.

Stand-your-ground law - Wikipedia

see also:

Castle doctrine - Wikipedia

Otis · Jul 24, 2018

Gazolba said:
No charges yet.

Stand-your-ground law - Wikipedia

see also:

Castle doctrine - Wikipedia

Yeah, saw the no charges yet, but the fact is, there may be no charges.

Crazy. Surely you shoot an unarmed man you should be immediately charged.

clint van damme · Jul 24, 2018

Otis said:
Yeah, saw the no charges yet, but the fact is, there may be no charges.

Crazy. Surely you shoot an unarmed man you should be immediately charged.

Don't know about in the States but you can get away with a lot here claiming self defence if you can convince a judge you felt suitably threatened.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 24, 2018

This is a difficult onel. My natural instinct is it's ridiculous. But... put yourself in a culture where you're allowed to carry guns, and this bloke comes alonmg, argues with you, pushes you over aggressively.

You'd feel a little bit threatened... wouldn't you?

Isn't the issue in *this* case more (again!) a culture that allows you to carry guns? Here, in all probability you wouldn't have a weapon to shoot him with, so you'd be looking for a large stick or something to ward him off.

So I don't think it's as simple as this particular law being wrong.

Otis · Jul 24, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
This is a difficult onel. My natural instinct is it's ridiculous. But... put yourself in a culture where you're allowed to carry guns, and this bloke comes alonmg, argues with you, pushes you over aggressively.

You'd feel a little bit threatened... wouldn't you?

Isn't the issue in *this* case more (again!) a culture that allows you to carry guns? Here, in all probability you wouldn't have a weapon to shoot him with, so you'd be looking for a large stick or something to ward him off.

So I don't think it's as simple as this particular law being wrong.

Yeah, but merely basing it one this one clip. The other guy pushes the man over, but then just stands there. There is no sign of it then turning into a prolonged attack.

Sure if the guy was attacking him, but he just seems to push him over and then stand there.

Can only assume this victim thought it WAS going to turn into some kind of attack.

pastythegreat · Jul 24, 2018

clint van damme said:
Don't know about in the States but you can get away with a lot here claiming self defence if you can convince a judge you felt suitably threatened.

But that's not entirely true. Self defence means you can DEFEND yourself from attack. You can use as much force as reasonable to defend yourself. ie, if somebody punches you, you can punch them. You can't pull out a claw hammer and smash his skull claiming self defence.

Otis · Jul 24, 2018

Think I need to put this lot back in the toolbox then.

clint van damme · Jul 24, 2018

pastythegreat said:
But that's not entirely true. Self defence means you can DEFEND yourself from attack. You can use as much force as reasonable to defend yourself. ie, if somebody punches you, you can punch them. You can't pull out a claw hammer and smash his skull claiming self defence.

Not strictly true. You can kick someone on the ground if you can make a case that you though they were going to seriously hurt you when they got up.

I saw someone get away with murder, (not literally), in court using this tactic after they'd leathered someone. A lot depends on the perceived level of threat and being able to prove that perceived level of threat.
The claw hammer is probably an extreme example but it depends what you are faced with though I think you'd have trouble defending hitting someone with a hammer!

pastythegreat · Jul 24, 2018

Th

clint van damme said:
Not strictly true. You can kick someone on the ground if you can make a case that you though they were going to seriously hurt you when they got up.

I saw someone get away with murder, (not literally), in court using this tactic after they'd leathered someone. A lot depends on the perceived level of threat and being able to prove that perceived level of threat.
The claw hammer is probably an extreme example but it depends what you are faced with though I think you'd have trouble defending hitting someone with a hammer!

Thats what I'm saying. It has to be reasonable to defend.
In the Army you have to live by the Rules of Engagement or the "white card" as it was know (as it written on a white card). Just because a terrorist is holding a gun, it doesn't necessarily mean he's going to use it so you can't shoot him. If he points his gun at somebody though you can now engage.

Same applies in self defence. You can't punch somebody just because he's clenched his fist.

Johnnythespider · Jul 24, 2018

It's still the wild west over there, they haven't come very far have they. The right to bear arms is ludicrous, no gun and there is no death here. It's murder to me if you go out with a gun.

Gazolba · Jul 24, 2018

Johnnythespider said:
It's still the wild west over there, they haven't come very far have they. The right to bear arms is ludicrous, no gun and there is no death here. It's murder to me if you go out with a gun.

The right to bear arms is enshrined in the US constitution.
That cannot be changed without 2/3 of the states agreeing, and that will NEVER happen.
However, each state has its own local laws which are described in the links I provided above.

vow · Jul 24, 2018

Aye, the 2nd amendment, agreed in the 18th (?) century when folk used muskets not fookin semi-automatic pistols!
About time it was amendend again, don't you think?

pastythegreat · Jul 24, 2018

vow said:
Aye, the 2nd amendment, agreed in the 18th (?) century when folk used muskets not fookin semi-automatic pistols!
About time it was amendend again, don't you think?

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shmmeee · Jul 25, 2018

pastythegreat said:
But that's not entirely true. Self defence means you can DEFEND yourself from attack. You can use as much force as reasonable to defend yourself. ie, if somebody punches you, you can punch them. You can't pull out a claw hammer and smash his skull claiming self defence.

Dont get why not. I'm not a fighter, the only way Im feeling safe is if they're unconscious. If I go too far on making sure they ain't getting back up to attack me that's not my fault.

Frankly you get physical with someone you lose all rights IMO.

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