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Southport Stabbing (5 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Grendel
  • Start date Jul 29, 2024
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MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,731
Sky Blue Pete said:
Of course so they are making a profit? I wouldn’t have thought they were but maybe less of a loss

So are they the baddies and we need to get tough with them? Diplomatically??
Click to expand...
Yes
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,732
Why is declining birthrate seen as a bad thing? I understand that it stops economic growth, but so what? If the pound shrinks or house prices fall etc etc why does it matter? Less people, less requirement for housing, less strain on services and infrastructure, yes less resources available but we wont need as many. More space, better conditions for thise who are here including those who have come to Britain, I can't see the downside. If people arent willing to do certain jobs then they become more important and the wage will rise to meet demand, whether that be farming. cleaning toilets, working in retail or other manual trades then the balance will be restored.
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman, Ring Of Steel, Nuskyblue and 1 other person

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,733
Sky Blue Pete said:
I’ve not seen that. Do they do it brazenly from beaches in plain sight?
Click to expand...
An example, there are more,

French 'police watch on' as overcrowded dinghy heads across English Channel

New pictures show French authorities filming with their phones as migrants struggle through the waves to cram onto an overcrowded boat heading to Britain.
www.express.co.uk
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,734
Sky Blue Pete said:
We have lots of space too. That’s almost what aboutery. The other thing is often it’s countries close to war zones or natural disasters that take in neighbouring countries migrant population and only for a period of time

I’ve asked you lot so what’s mine

Part of it is being honest about the problem and that is linked with saying what is what isn’t possible

So with our birth rate we are screwed without managed migration of working age foreigners

As fellow human beings we need to assume that other human beings are the same as us

We need to understand and not assume that we know the circumstances of those who are taking huge risks to come to the uk. That’s all of us and I’m not judging people who disagree with me as less compassionate or empathetic

We need to be honest about what happens with crime and balance the positive and negative aspects of large numbers of people from different cultures being in the country

We have to talk and not generalise and pigeon hole groups of people based on where they’re from or their age or their nationality or their colour of race or religion or none

We need to reduce the numbers of non skilled non traumatised people from other countries coming to the country. We need to talk to all our close partners on this and work together to amend the echr and other agreeemements made decades ago in a different age and in a different world

Mostly and fundamentally for me we need to ensure we remain true to our human standards of decency and humanity in our dealings with other countries and fellow human beings
Click to expand...

Read this paragraph as I'm retiring soon and we need more suckers to pay into the Ponzi scheme that is the state pension.
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman and Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,735
Nick said:
There is no mature discussion, if people have an issue they are "far right" and "racist".

Go hang about by Cov Hill Hotel or Culworth Court for a day and you will soon see that the majority aren't grateful Ukranian families.
Click to expand...

Yes Allesley has been ruined by the policies of that hotel.

The local shop is robbed daily and undesirables wandering the streets day and night
 
Reactions: Marty

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,736
Sky Blue Pete said:
How?
Click to expand...

Turn the boats around in the sea. These people are already in a perfectly safe country, putting your own life in danger to cross a body of water is quite frankly stupid and ultimately they are not our problem. It'll only take a week's worth of boats being turned around before they stop.

Ones that have overstayed visa's will be living somewhere, use bank accounts etc. just use that information, turn up at the door and deport.
 
Reactions: Saddlebrains
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,737
Nick said:
Let's face it, they could stop all of the boats leaving their shores if they wanted to.
Click to expand...
They could, but they’re heavily incentivised not to. If we spent millions to stop migrants from voluntarily leaving our country then the government would get hammered for it.

The problem needs international co-ordination, and the acceptance that not every political group in every country is going to be 100% happy with the outcome.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,738
SBT said:
They could, but they’re heavily incentivised not to. If we spent millions to stop migrants from voluntarily leaving our country then the government would get hammered for it.

The problem needs international co-ordination, and the acceptance that not every political group in every country is going to be 100% happy with the outcome.
Click to expand...

We are giving them millions for them to stop people leaving France aren't we?

Sunak and Macron summit: UK to give £500m to help France curb small boat crossings

The cash will fund a French detention centre and is a big increase on what the UK already pays France.
www.bbc.co.uk

Is that still happening?
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,739
Nick said:
We are giving them millions for them to stop people leaving France aren't we?

Sunak and Macron summit: UK to give £500m to help France curb small boat crossings

The cash will fund a French detention centre and is a big increase on what the UK already pays France.
www.bbc.co.uk

Is that still happening?
Click to expand...
I assume so - my point is that it’s hardly likely to work.

If your solution to a major problem is to outsource it to someone else (who has their own issues with the very same problem) then can you really act surprised if it fails?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,740
SBT said:
I assume so - my point is that it’s hardly likely to work.

If your solution to a major problem is to outsource it to someone else (who has their own issues with the very same problem) then can you really act surprised if it fails?
Click to expand...

So what's the money being spent on?
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,741
Nick said:
So what's the money being spent on?
Click to expand...
You don’t need me to tell you, it’s in the third paragraph of the article you posted.

But again - if you think we can just outsource this issue, then you’re not taking it seriously.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,742
MalcSB said:
An example, there are more,

French 'police watch on' as overcrowded dinghy heads across English Channel

New pictures show French authorities filming with their phones as migrants struggle through the waves to cram onto an overcrowded boat heading to Britain.
www.express.co.uk
Click to expand...
I would hope so cause that’s the express which is to truth what Farage is to community relations
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,743
Marty said:
Turn the boats around in the sea. These people are already in a perfectly safe country, putting your own life in danger to cross a body of water is quite frankly stupid and ultimately they are not our problem. It'll only take a week's worth of boats being turned around before they stop.

Ones that have overstayed visa's will be living somewhere, use bank accounts etc. just use that information, turn up at the door and deport.
Click to expand...
We do do the turn up at doors but like the home office didn’t invest in enough staff to make a dent

The first paragraph walk me through like I’m an idiot how that works. Who does it? What international laws would we be in danger of breaking?
Any consequences that you would feel uncomfortable seeing?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,744
SBT said:
They could, but they’re heavily incentivised not to. If we spent millions to stop migrants from voluntarily leaving our country then the government would get hammered for it.

The problem needs international co-ordination, and the acceptance that not every political group in every country is going to be 100% happy with the outcome.
Click to expand...
They have been paid millions by the UK to do just that.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,745
Sky Blue Pete said:
I would hope so cause that’s the express which is to truth what Farage is to community relations
Click to expand...
First one I could find, as I said there were more at the time.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,746
MalcSB said:
First one I could find, as I said there were more at the time.
Click to expand...
I’m not doubting it but seems unlikely and if so why do they take dangerous trips at night or when the seas are choppy if they could just do it when they like
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,747
Sometimes I love this forum today is one of those days
Thanks for not jumping down my throat
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,748
Sky Blue Pete said:
I would hope so cause that’s the express which is to truth what Farage is to community relations
Click to expand...

French police stand by as Channel migrants leave Normandy beach for Britain

Around a dozen officers, some of whom had riot shields and batons, seen at the water’s edge at Gravelines, Normandy
www.telegraph.co.uk
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,749
MalcSB said:
They have been paid millions by the UK to do just that.
Click to expand...
If you think they’re going to do anything other than the bare minimum then I don’t know what to tell you. Any other country would do the same. Outsourcing the problem to the French and expecting them to save the day for us is totally naive.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,750
Sky Blue Pete said:
We do do the turn up at doors but like the home office didn’t invest in enough staff to make a dent

The first paragraph walk me through like I’m an idiot how that works. Who does it? What international laws would we be in danger of breaking?
Any consequences that you would feel uncomfortable seeing?
Click to expand...

Who gives a fuck what international laws we're breaking... Nobody else seems to stick to anything.

I assume I'm correct about the pensions.
 
Reactions: MalcSB

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,751
SBT said:
If you think they’re going to do anything other than the bare minimum then I don’t know what to tell you. Any other country would do the same. Outsourcing the problem to the French and expecting them to save the day for us is totally naive.
Click to expand...
Or as what appears to be the case us doing what looks politically expedient but being quite happy with the outcome
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,752
Sky Blue Pete said:
We have lots of space too. That’s almost what aboutery. The other thing is often it’s countries close to war zones or natural disasters that take in neighbouring countries migrant population and only for a period of time

I’ve asked you lot so what’s mine

Part of it is being honest about the problem and that is linked with saying what is what isn’t possible

So with our birth rate we are screwed without managed migration of working age foreigners

As fellow human beings we need to assume that other human beings are the same as us

We need to understand and not assume that we know the circumstances of those who are taking huge risks to come to the uk. That’s all of us and I’m not judging people who disagree with me as less compassionate or empathetic

We need to be honest about what happens with crime and balance the positive and negative aspects of large numbers of people from different cultures being in the country

We have to talk and not generalise and pigeon hole groups of people based on where they’re from or their age or their nationality or their colour of race or religion or none

We need to reduce the numbers of non skilled non traumatised people from other countries coming to the country. We need to talk to all our close partners on this and work together to amend the echr and other agreeemements made decades ago in a different age and in a different world

Mostly and fundamentally for me we need to ensure we remain true to our human standards of decency and humanity in our dealings with other countries and fellow human beings
Click to expand...
I agree with this in principle, but the issue for me is the sheer number of people that have entered the country in such a short period of time.

We are an ageing population, HOWEVER, we are a country that has a housing shortage as it is, we are also a country with crumbling schools, decaying roads, outdated trains, a health system in collapse, and a society that can no longer afford a winter fuel allowance for its most vulnerable.

Those of us that do work are faced with the highest tax burden in living memory, and yet STILL more people continue to flood in and drain our resources.

Just how bad do things have to get before we put up the Britain is Full sign?

What will eventually happen, is that sooner or later there will be a massive upsurge in extreme right wing support as decent people look for someone to hear their concerns.

If we don't act soon I fear this will be inevitable.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,753
Marty said:
Who gives a fuck what international laws we're breaking... Nobody else seems to stick to anything.

I assume I'm correct about the pensions.
Click to expand...
We do because we are a nation that means something that wants to lead the world in doing the right thing and being humane and respectful

We need a worldwide consensus or we need to play hardball and use our military but know that this doesn’t come without consequences

Probably bang on about pensions
 
Reactions: Skybluekyle

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,754
fatso said:
I agree with this in principle, but the issue for me is the sheer number of people that have entered the country in such a short period of time.

We are an ageing population, HOWEVER, we are a country that has a housing shortage as it is, we are also a country with crumbling schools, decaying roads, outdated trains, a health system in collapse, and a society that can no longer afford a winter fuel allowance for its most vulnerable.

Those of us that do work are faced with the highest tax burden in living memory, and yet STILL more people continue to flood in and drain our resources.

Just how bad do things have to get before we put up the Britain is Full sign?

What will eventually happen, is that sooner or later there will be a massive upsurge in extreme right wing support as decent people look for someone to hear their concerns.

If we don't act soon I fear this will be inevitable.
Click to expand...
It’s happened and I don’t think we can tread back

again no judgment but when a reasonable person on here can say they fear for their daughters safety waiting at a bus stop near to a hotel where migrants are staying we’ve gone over to legitimising what we would have considered illegitimate just a few years ago

Im not saying Nick is wrong to he concerned either and he’s just being honest about how he’s feeling
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,755
Sky Blue Pete said:
We do because we are a nation that means something that wants to lead the world in doing the right thing and being humane and respectful
Click to expand...

Humane and Respectful or rinsed?
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,756
rob9872 said:
Why is declining birthrate seen as a bad thing? I understand that it stops economic growth, but so what? If the pound shrinks or house prices fall etc etc why does it matter? Less people, less requirement for housing, less strain on services and infrastructure, yes less resources available but we wont need as many. More space, better conditions for thise who are here including those who have come to Britain, I can't see the downside. If people arent willing to do certain jobs then they become more important and the wage will rise to meet demand, whether that be farming. cleaning toilets, working in retail or other manual trades then the balance will be restored.
Click to expand...
It would be a financial disaster for the economy, in terms of demographics you'd get the dreaded reverse pyramid, ie, way too many elderly not working, drawing a pension and swamping the NHS,
while at the same time having way to few people in work to pay the taxes to fund all the pensions, let alone maintaining the nations infrastructure.

Ask yourself this, if our birth rate is declining so rapidly (which it is) why are we building so many new houses? And who is going to be buying and occupying all these houses in 30 years time???

My guess is that the government are quietly encouraging all immigration, both legal and illegal, in order to sustain a future work force, and I suggest any noise they make about stopping the illegal migrants is nothing but lip service.
I actually think they are secretly accelerating the process before other European countries try to tempt them to come.

This all plays into the left wings recent university campaigns of recent years, to quietly poison the minds of our young against being British, and to blame Britain and colonialism for the worlds ills, and so to raise a generation of young tax payers who are open to see the culture of the country dramatically change in an incredibly short period of time.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and SBT
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,757
I preferred the moon landing stuff
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, SBAndy, Skybluekyle and 1 other person

fatso

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,758
Sky Blue Pete said:
It’s happened and I don’t think we can tread back

again no judgment but when a reasonable person on here can say they fear for their daughters safety waiting at a bus stop near to a hotel where migrants are staying we’ve gone over to legitimising what we would have considered illegitimate just a few years ago

Im not saying Nick is wrong to he concerned either and he’s just being honest about how he’s feeling
Click to expand...
I hate to say this Pete, but Germany was able to tread back in the 1930's.
If people's concerns arnt addressed, there will be a kick back in one way or another.

For example. The migrants being held in Tamworth were removed once the local population rioted, those migrants have been moved. How long before more riots ensue? (Not that I'm advocating that of course) but I can see more trouble ahead.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,759
Sky Blue Pete said:
I’m not doubting it but seems unlikely and if so why do they take dangerous trips at night or when the seas are choppy if they could just do it when they like
Click to expand...

I have a client down in Hythe, he said to me that it used to be the case they mainly came through the night and then scattered as soon as they landed. It is generally the case now that they sit on the beach and wait to get picked up by busses. What does that tell you?

Sky Blue Pete said:
We do because we are a nation that means something that wants to lead the world in doing the right thing and being humane and respectful
Click to expand...

We are going in the direction of not being a nation with the level of immigration we currently have.
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,760
SBT said:
I preferred the moon landing stuff
Click to expand...
That's probably your level tbf.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,761
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
We are going in the direction of not being a nation with the level of immigration we currently have.
Click to expand...
I think the problem is more of a logistical one than an existential one.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,762
Nick said:
So what's the money being spent on?
Click to expand...
Baguettes
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,763
Sky Blue Pete said:
We do because we are a nation that means something that wants to lead the world in doing the right thing and being humane and respectful

We need a worldwide consensus or we need to play hardball and use our military but know that this doesn’t come without consequences

Probably bang on about pensions
Click to expand...
TBH, I'm getting a bit bored with the "we want to be leaders" crap.

Get in line.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,764
Sky Blue Pete said:
We have lots of space too. That’s almost what aboutery. The other thing is often it’s countries close to war zones or natural disasters that take in neighbouring countries migrant population and only for a period of time

I’ve asked you lot so what’s mine

Part of it is being honest about the problem and that is linked with saying what is what isn’t possible

So with our birth rate we are screwed without managed migration of working age foreigners

As fellow human beings we need to assume that other human beings are the same as us

We need to understand and not assume that we know the circumstances of those who are taking huge risks to come to the uk. That’s all of us and I’m not judging people who disagree with me as less compassionate or empathetic

We need to be honest about what happens with crime and balance the positive and negative aspects of large numbers of people from different cultures being in the country

We have to talk and not generalise and pigeon hole groups of people based on where they’re from or their age or their nationality or their colour of race or religion or none

We need to reduce the numbers of non skilled non traumatised people from other countries coming to the country. We need to talk to all our close partners on this and work together to amend the echr and other agreeemements made decades ago in a different age and in a different world

Mostly and fundamentally for me we need to ensure we remain true to our human standards of decency and humanity in our dealings with other countries and fellow human beings
Click to expand...
There are plenty with lots more space than we have. And then people complain about house prices and availability of social housing.

 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Como

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2024
  • #2,765
Marty said:
Who gives a fuck what international laws we're breaking... Nobody else seems to stick to anything.

I assume I'm correct about the pensions.
Click to expand...
State pensions being a Ponzi scheme? I hadn't thought about it that way before, but yes.
 
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