Southport Stabbing (2 Viewers)

MalcSB · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Which countries malc and does it work / save money?

Rwanda would have been an interesting test which Labour cancelled with no alternative in place. I guess it would have been a tad embarrassing for them had it ended up working, all that has happened is that arrivals by boat have increased.

I’m sure that the short term would have been costly, but it would have had to be judged over a longer period.

Still, Starmer is smashing the gangs by getting a single supplier of boats arrested, hoorah!

Why do they all want to come to the UK when they have travelled through multiple safe countries?

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
They can’t all stay at mine Nick

How does that happen Nick? How do we stop them?

The government are making money?

We tow them back to France? We detain them properly until their case has been sorted. We screen them properly to see their age and background.

It's naive to think mates aren't getting contracts, whether labour or conservative. You have government funded NGOs coaching people how to get into the country and stay here FFS.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

Nick said:
Maybe they can start housing them with people wanting them to be let in?

Many do as was seen with ukraine and Syria as well as others giving money and time to support and help.
Eveyone has identified the problems issues and challenges but despite 14 years in charge and promising to reduce the numbers the tories didn’t manage to effect the numbers and labour despite talking about smashing gangs don’t seem to have affected the number coming in yet

To be fair they’ve only had a few months so maybe some patience is required

I wonder whether the question should be is it cheaper doing it this way?
I wonder if engaging with the local community positively would improve the situation?
There’s a huge amount of hate and fear that I sort of understand. My experience of most people who were placed in coventry who I’ve come across with church or charity or cab are mostly gratefulness

My fear is that we need mature discussion to find workable solutions. We’ve tried this shit for over a decade and not improved things

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

MalcSB said:
The French have been paid enough to stop the boats departing, in reality they just want rid.

If there were affective border controls throughout Europe - or even any - there would be some impact, surely.

Well yeah, I'm sure they could stop so many boats leaving if they really wanted to.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

MalcSB said:
Rwanda would have been an interesting test which Labour cancelled with no alternative in place. I guess it would have been a tad embarrassing for them had it ended up working, all that has happened is that arrivals by boat have increased.

I’m sure that the short term would have been costly, but it would have had to be judged over a longer period.

Still, Starmer is smashing the gangs by getting a single supplier of boats arrested, hoorah!

Why do they all want to come to the UK when they have travelled through multiple safe countries?

Always used to be linked with empire and our English language being a world wide language. Then family and then opportunity I believe. Also a sense of fair play and justness and rule of law etc but that’s changing

When I’ve read any studies on benefits uk doesn’t come out as generous but again this may have changed too

Many other countries receive so many more people and the numbers over the last few years are really not sustainable

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
My fear is that we need mature discussion to find workable solutions. We’ve tried this shit for over a decade and not improved things

There is no mature discussion, if people have an issue they are "far right" and "racist".

Go hang about by Cov Hill Hotel or Culworth Court for a day and you will soon see that the majority aren't grateful Ukranian families.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

Grendel said:
Re-enact labours previous idea of creating internment camps on islands in Scotland

Internment isn’t an answer is it or do you genuinely think it is?

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

Marty said:
Don't let them come into the country.

How?

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Internment isn’t an answer is it or do you genuinely think it is?

Why not? They are entering the country illegally and will be processed and their case decided.

I'd say it's much better than turning up with bus loads of blokes at hotels across the country and saying "crack on lads".

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

MalcSB said:
The French have been paid enough to stop the boats departing, in reality they just want rid.

If there were affective border controls throughout Europe - or even any - there would be some impact, surely.

So is it the fault of France?
Do we need better relationships or worse?
Is it worth military action?

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

Nick said:
There is no mature discussion, if people have an issue they are "far right" and "racist".

Go hang about by Cov Hill Hotel or Culworth Court for a day and you will soon see that the majority aren't grateful Ukranian families.

Which ones culworth court?
how do they show they are ungrateful
I’m not falling anyone on here racist or far right
I think it’s probably racist to suggest that all people who arrive as a immigrant / refugee is more likely to commit crime than another group
What isn’t would be evidence and facts and there are emerging trends

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
So is it the fault of France?
Do we need better relationships or worse?
Is it worth military action?

Well if they are coming on boats from France and turning up here then I'd say it's a mixture of France and Us for allowing them to rock up.

Maybe some of the organisations coaching migrants how to get into the country and stay in the country should be investigated too? They are just as bad as the "gangs" who put people on boats. Who funds them all?

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

Nick said:
Why not? They are entering the country illegally and will be processed and their case decided.

I'd say it's much better than turning up with bus loads of blokes at hotels across the country and saying "crack on lads".

Do you know what the expectation is and what do you mean ‘crack on lads’??
Camps would need staffing and not come without cost or consequence

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Which ones culworth court?
how do they show they are ungrateful
I’m not falling anyone on here racist or far right
I think it’s probably racist to suggest that all people who arrive as a immigrant / refugee is more likely to commit crime than another group
What isn’t would be evidence and facts and there are emerging trends

Culworth Court is Foleshill, have a look at the place to see that they are ungrateful.

I said it on another thread, I was meant to stay somewhere last year for golf but the hotel part of it was closed to house migrants. We still managed to get in to play golf though and the hotel was trashed, stolen bikes everywhere, it was like a shanty town that had been ruined. Hotel staff getting abuse, they were kicking off every day about the meals because they wanted other things. I'd say ungrateful.

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Do you know what the expectation is and what do you mean ‘crack on lads’??
Camps would need staffing and not come without cost or consequence

"Crack on loads" is that a few buses rock up and drop them off at a hotel and they can do whatever then. Nobody has a clue what they do from then on.

Hotels need staffing and have a cost don't they?

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

Nick said:
Well yeah, I'm sure they could stop so many boats leaving if they really wanted to.

That’s just perception though - can they really stop more boats than they do?
What’s in it for the French?

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
That’s just perception though - can they really stop more boats than they do?
What’s in it for the French?

Let's face it, they could stop all of the boats leaving their shores if they wanted to.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

Nick said:
Culworth Court is Foleshill, have a look at the place to see that they are ungrateful.

I said it on another thread, I was meant to stay somewhere last year for golf but the hotel part of it was closed to house migrants. We still managed to get in to play golf though and the hotel was trashed, stolen bikes everywhere, it was like a shanty town that had been ruined. Hotel staff getting abuse, they were kicking off every day about the meals because they wanted other things. I'd say ungrateful.

Yep that’s good anecdotal evidence
I do wonder what would happen if you shoved 150 brits in a hotel and told them they couldn’t work and that their cases would be dealt with in a few months or up to a year

I wonder what would happen? In fact I think I know.

MalcSB · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Always used to be linked with empire and our English language being a world wide language. Then family and then opportunity I believe. Also a sense of fair play and justness and rule of law etc but that’s changing

When I’ve read any studies on benefits uk doesn’t come out as generous but again this may have changed too

Many other countries receive so many more people and the numbers over the last few years are really not sustainable

Most other countries have more space.

MalcSB · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
That’s just perception though - can they really stop more boats than they do?
What’s in it for the French?

They have received miilions, Pete,

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

Nick said:
Let's face it, they could stop all of the boats leaving their shores if they wanted to.

Wow really? How? Seriously and as I say if so then why aren’t we?

fatso · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
What’s the alternative friend?

Sunak (for all his faults) had a plan.
Deport all those who arrive without the required paper work. It's not difficult.

The civil service and the loonies sought to scupper the plan at every opportunity, funny how they couldn't save our pensioners from freezing to death though isn't it!

I'm now thinking it's time to withdraw from the ECHR and any other international law courts that stop us from controlling levels of immigration until we can get control of the issue.

And as a side, if there's no money for winter fuel allowance, or to house our own homeless, why are we continuing to pay France millions of pounds to stop the boats, when they are clearly failing to do so?

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Wow really? How? Seriously and as I say if so then why aren’t we?

Our police are too busy looking to see who it is Tweeting things.

What happens if somebody is found entering the country on a boat illegally? Shipped to a free hotel with free healthcare, free food, free heating etc etc. What a deterrent for the brave blokes leaving their families in places that they can't go back to because of the risk of death...

It is a long way a way from women and children being picked up from in front of missiles and brought to safety. If somebody said that the Novotel is going to be filled up with women and children taken from a city that was currently being bombed, I'd have a different view.

MalcSB · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Always used to be linked with empire and our English language being a world wide language. Then family and then opportunity I believe. Also a sense of fair play and justness and rule of law etc but that’s changing

When I’ve read any studies on benefits uk doesn’t come out as generous but again this may have changed too

Many other countries receive so many more people and the numbers over the last few years are really not sustainable

It’s as simple as this country is as soft as shit,

MalcSB · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Wow really? How? Seriously and as I say if so then why aren’t we?

We aren‘t because France is a sovereign country who have been paid millions and done fuck all.

All they need to do is to deploy a few stingers to puncture the boats before they get in the water. Instead of which the gendarmes stand around smoking Gitanes and watching - all on the British taxpayer,

rob9872 · Nov 20, 2024

I heard a conversation between some lads on the train where one suggested shooting a dinghy in the sea. In fairness to the other lads they were a bit 'you can't say that mate, bang out of order' but he then said to them if you could kill 20 to save 500 would you?

His point was that if you sank one and it was sanctioned and then publicised that's what happened that it would prevent many multiples wanting to make the perilous journey. Tbf it wasn't as articulate as that, but I'm paraphrasing,.

It would never happen of course and can you imagine the outrage if it did, I mean how could anyone officially legitimise killing a boat full of people, but the basic premise of almost using a small number in that way whilst seemingly abhorrent has a longer term positive. Could someone be brave enough to spread fake news that they had sanctioned it without actually killing anyone and even word getting about might reduce the numbers even if only temporarily?

Tbh I dont think there is a genuine workable solution and this is here to stay. A bunch of blokes on a footie forum certainly aren't going to solve it, so the answers we should be looking for are how we keep our families and businesses that they pose a risk to safe in the short term and how we help improve it for them so they can eventually integrate into our society.

MalcSB · Nov 20, 2024

Nick said:
Our police are too busy looking to see who it is Tweeting things.

What happens if somebody is found entering the country on a boat illegally? Shipped to a free hotel with free healthcare, free food, free heating etc etc. What a deterrent for the brave blokes leaving their families in places that they can't go back to because of the risk of death...

It is a long way a way from women and children being picked up from in front of missiles and brought to safety. If somebody said that the Novotel is going to be filled up with women and children taken from a city that was currently being bombed, I'd have a different view.

At the very least they should be made to work. Filling pot holes would be a start,

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

MalcSB said:
At the very least they should be made to work. Filling pot holes would be a start,

I am sure their funded legal teams would have a massive issue with that.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

MalcSB said:
Most other countries have more space.

We have lots of space too. That’s almost what aboutery. The other thing is often it’s countries close to war zones or natural disasters that take in neighbouring countries migrant population and only for a period of time

I’ve asked you lot so what’s mine

Part of it is being honest about the problem and that is linked with saying what is what isn’t possible

So with our birth rate we are screwed without managed migration of working age foreigners

As fellow human beings we need to assume that other human beings are the same as us

We need to understand and not assume that we know the circumstances of those who are taking huge risks to come to the uk. That’s all of us and I’m not judging people who disagree with me as less compassionate or empathetic

We need to be honest about what happens with crime and balance the positive and negative aspects of large numbers of people from different cultures being in the country

We have to talk and not generalise and pigeon hole groups of people based on where they’re from or their age or their nationality or their colour of race or religion or none

We need to reduce the numbers of non skilled non traumatised people from other countries coming to the country. We need to talk to all our close partners on this and work together to amend the echr and other agreeemements made decades ago in a different age and in a different world

Mostly and fundamentally for me we need to ensure we remain true to our human standards of decency and humanity in our dealings with other countries and fellow human beings

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

MalcSB said:
They have received miilions, Pete,

Of course so they are making a profit? I wouldn’t have thought they were but maybe less of a loss

So are they the baddies and we need to get tough with them? Diplomatically??

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

MalcSB said:
We aren‘t because France is a sovereign country who have been paid millions and done fuck all.

All they need to do is to deploy a few stingers to puncture the boats before they get in the water. Instead of which the gendarmes stand around smoking Gitanes and watching - all on the British taxpayer,

I’ve not seen that. Do they do it brazenly from beaches in plain sight?

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 20, 2024

MalcSB said:
At the very least they should be made to work. Filling pot holes would be a start,

They aren’t allowed to work and potentially that would be a solution
Not sure who would employ the supervisors or do the training etc but it’s got potential for me

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
We have lots of space too. That’s almost what aboutery. The other thing is often it’s countries close to war zones or natural disasters that take in neighbouring countries migrant population and only for a period of time

I’ve asked you lot so what’s mine

Part of it is being honest about the problem and that is linked with saying what is what isn’t possible

So with our birth rate we are screwed without managed migration of working age foreigners

As fellow human beings we need to assume that other human beings are the same as us

We need to understand and not assume that we know the circumstances of those who are taking huge risks to come to the uk. That’s all of us and I’m not judging people who disagree with me as less compassionate or empathetic

We need to be honest about what happens with crime and balance the positive and negative aspects of large numbers of people from different cultures being in the country

We have to talk and not generalise and pigeon hole groups of people based on where they’re from or their age or their nationality or their colour of race or religion or none

We need to reduce the numbers of non skilled non traumatised people from other countries coming to the country. We need to talk to all our close partners on this and work together to amend the echr and other agreeemements made decades ago in a different age and in a different world

Mostly and fundamentally for me we need to ensure we remain true to our human standards of decency and humanity in our dealings with other countries and fellow human beings

The birth rate would probably go up in the country if we could fire kids out and have them all paid for and housed? People can't afford to have 4 or 5 children.

Let's face it, are people from completely different cultures the same?

If there is so much space, use some of the money being paid to hotel chains to knock up some camps in the middle of nowhere for them to go while they are processed. We were quick enough to give out contracts to build mega hospitals that were never actually used during COVID.

Again, would it be a deterrent if people coming over knew they would be in a camp in the middle of nowhere rather than a 4-star hotel?

MalcSB · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
I’ve not seen that. Do they do it brazenly from beaches in plain sight?

Yes

Nick · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
They aren’t allowed to work and potentially that would be a solution
Not sure who would employ the supervisors or do the training etc but it’s got potential for me

It wouldn't be work as such, they wouldn't be getting paid. Just earning what they are being given by the government.

I have no issue when people want to come here and graft and earn an honest living.

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