Something I Don't Understand Here

Discussion in 'Coventry City General Chat' started by James Smith, Aug 8, 2013.

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  1. James Smith

    James Smith Well-Known Member

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    Tim said the following in a written Q&A session with the Coventry [Evening] Telegraph
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...43+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=fr&client=firefox-a

    Okay why didn't he produce the signed documents as evidence in court? I always thought that would be his Smoking Gnu and yet nothing appears to have ever been published proving this deal ever took place - Why not?

    Have they been stored in the same place as the plans for the White Elephant Stadium? ;)
     
  2. Godiva

    Godiva Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think the documents (if they exist) were not presented in court? Even if ccc renerged a signed deal, that is not what sisu complained in court.
     
  3. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

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    Never mind all that stadium nonsense...do you have pix of this smoking gnu???
     
  4. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    but with their history of litigation its pretty safe to say they would have took them court in the 1st instance and not when the ACL loan was re-financed. Going by their own history and business model it pretty much confirms fish face is talking a load of shit, just for a change
     
  5. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

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    This is true...plus the fact that previously SISU (rental agreement) & presently Suarez...have shown that signed contracts, mean little or nothing to the people that sign them when they don't want to honour them anymore.
    Whether these documents exist or not is of no relevance to our future...just ammo in a tit-for-tat slanging match.
     
  6. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    They could only take them to JR proceedings once the loan was in place, otherwise what would the JR be over?

    History of litigation? I don't think any side of this argument are litigation averse..... do you?
     
  7. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    Rather embarrassingly, all these massive Coventry City fans believe that trying to renegotiate an agreed deal is fine for a council and a stadium operating company but isn't for their football club.
     
  8. spoon

    spoon New Member

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    Gnu_smoke.jpg
     
  9. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    breach of contract, if it did indeed ever exist
     
  10. theferret

    theferret Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand what you are saying. It was precisely at the time that the ACL loan was re-financed that the 'deal' collapsed - and I suspect this came somewhat out of the blue for SISU.

    I could be wrong, but there has never really been a denial by ACL or CCC that there was an agreement in place for SISU to purchase the half share in ACL. For that reason I can only conclude that documents must exist, and on this issue at least, it is an accurate description of events otherwise ACL would be screaming from the rooftops that no such deal was agreed, but they haven't (and they're not exactly averse to calling TF a liar in angry press statements).
     
  11. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    No breach of a contract that doesn't effectively exist - it's reneging an agreement but the contract hadn't been performed at that point.
     
  12. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    what i am saying is that if SISU had a signed contract for them to restructure the debt which was then renaged upon by CCC why did they not litigate them at this point in keeping with their business model.

    the judicial review that they bought against ACL/CCC was for miss use of public money, no mention of breach of contract to my knowledge.

    they had the oppertunity to litigate them twice for 2 seperate thing and didnt, why?
     
  13. theferret

    theferret Well-Known Member

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    I see your point now, but FP answers that above I guess.
     
  14. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

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    The documents we were debate were those relating to buying into the stadium. The rental agreement renegotiation is great as long as it is negotiated - SISU chose to simply not pay what was legally owed - according to the courts. And whichever way you look at it - SISU have engineered one of several optional outcomes - ACL cease to trade so they can pick up the Ricoh at a knockdown price, they get to pay what THEY decide for rent, or as has happened the agreement is torn up via either CVA or liquidation of Ltd.
     
  15. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    Think you have to ask what was signed ........

    was it a heads of terms or a contract ........ the first isnt binding in law the second usually is

    Also whose 50% was being bought in return for the debt settlement. Unlikely it was the Councils and whilst they may have had HOT's with the charity they did not have a binding contract. The council could veto or not the Charity deal deal but it could not force one on the Charity
     
  16. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

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    That isn't a Gnu. That's just a sketch of Huggy-bear wearing a hell's angel's helmet & shades.
     
  17. James Smith

    James Smith Well-Known Member

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    Right so if it was an agreed deal why hasn't Young Timothy produced the signed documents to try and shame the council? We only have the word of Young Timothy that a deal was done until he provides proof. Given what SISU think of the council, you'd think he'd be waving in the face of anyone who he met. Strangely he doesn't appear to be doing so.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
  18. theferret

    theferret Well-Known Member

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    All this considered though, on the face of it, it didn't seem like a bad deal. Mortgage would have been settled (effectively putting a value of £14 million on the Higgs share), and CCC would have retained 50% of ACL and complete ownership of the freehold. Yes, with a lease extension, but it was already a long lease anyway. I'm still not altogether sure why they just didn't bite the bullet and go with it.
     
  19. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    FP Said "No breach of a contract that doesn't effectively exist - it's reneging an agreement but the contract hadn't been performed at that point"

    i cant confess to being an expert on law but i would think that when a contract is signed it is no longer an agreement it is a contract and therefore legaly binding.

    could be wrong though
     
  20. theferret

    theferret Well-Known Member

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    Why would he need to? Only you are questioning it. Nobody from ACL/CCC has EVER denied that the agreement, referred to by TF, was as he describes it.
     
  21. theferret

    theferret Well-Known Member

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    It was a HOT agreement rather than a contract though. I think OSB makes the distinction in an earlier post.
     
  22. James Smith

    James Smith Well-Known Member

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  23. James Smith

    James Smith Well-Known Member

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    Well if it was me and everyone was going on about me and my firm reneging on paying the agreed rent and I had proof that the landlords were just as bad at keeping their word, I'd show and tell everyone.

    Are the council still under the legal cosh preventing them from saying anything much given SISU could still appeal against the ruling?
     
  24. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    you could be right, fishfase doesn't exactly say what was signed. he just says it was documented and signed then CCC reneged on it. it could of just been the minutes from the meeting that were signed. either way he's still full of shit
     
  25. theferret

    theferret Well-Known Member

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    OK, but until I read your OP, I wasn't aware this issue was even in doubt, I thought it was universally accepted that CCC reneged on that deal. They didn't do anything illegal though clearly, and TF is in no position to talk about morals, so I see no value in trying to prove something that isn't being denied.
     
  26. James Smith

    James Smith Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the council were using the SISU handshake technique for agreeing something.

     
  27. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    if i remeber in their statement after the judge threw the proceedings out, they said that it had stopped them saying anything, i think it was till today that sisu had to lodge an appeal so if they dont maybe the council will make some further statements tomorrow, who knows?

    one thing we can say for sure, there is plenty more milage in the statement tank for all parties involved.
     
  28. James Smith

    James Smith Well-Known Member

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    Point taken, just found it odd that he hasn't mentioned it again and yet this seemed to me to be the stated reason for them seeking the JR. Thought the council might have been keeping quiet because of the proceedings in court hanging over them.
     
  29. Nsgdm1

    Nsgdm1 Member

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    Wasn't the appeal deadline today ? I assume with no news SISU decided against appealing
     
  30. James Smith

    James Smith Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen SISU as appealing.
     
  31. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    see OSB's post. What documentary evidence of anything has been released by either side? Why hasn't it been denied if it's a lie.

    I think you need to grow up and try thinking beyond all this "Young Timothy" drivel.
     
  32. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    i think you're right lets all call him fat smug timmy from now on.
     
  33. James Smith

    James Smith Well-Known Member

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    It was I thought what Ronnie Corbett was called by his mother in "Sorry". Having checked I can't actually find any evidence of this so It'll have to be something else. I thought it was a bit kinder than "Fish Face" or any of the other derogatory names he's been called on here.
     
  34. Nonleagueherewecome

    Nonleagueherewecome Well-Known Member

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    Something not being denied that has been said by Fisher doesn't make it true. Everything that pratt says is a lie until there is documentedevidence. To say that he "has previous" would be massively understating it. I've always assumed that this matter was complete and utter bullshit that was just laughed out of the room by everyone when he raised it!
     

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