Some basic ricoh questions (1 Viewer)

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 12, 2014

The Gentleman said:
You're probably right about them wanting to get out a lot quicker than what has actually happened but being the sort of people they are I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't look at it from a valuable real estate point of view and all that crap about Ranson being in charge and Joy not knowing is bollocks as far as I'm concerned. She has always pulled the strings at Sisu HQ and do people really think they would be shelling the money they did without serious questions being asked, if people think different then to me that is naive.

I'd be reasonably sure the initial money pumped in would indeed have been down to management to do with as they wished... although I'd also be pretty sure the general plan was always agreed beforehand as being spend a bit on players, improve the side, rather than anything else.

In the grand scheme of things, the money put in then was a small pin-prick in the wider context, and the amount available would have been agreed to begin with also, so then it's down to the appointed management to make it work or not.

And only when it becomes a 'not' do you start taking an interest...

The Gentleman · Nov 12, 2014

Grendel said:
What would you define as buying in the cheap now we know what 100% ownership is a shade under £6 million for well beyond the lifetime if the actual stadiums existence?

Struggling with them fingers again? I presume you meant 'being on the cheap'. Free with a win with the JR, I don't know really but everything they have done so far would suggest that they haven't wanted to actually part with any money for it and that last offer after Wasps stepped in was to look like they tried because they now know they don't stand a chance of getting it and to use the line that they want to help integrate with the local community made me feel sick and just kick Fisher in the balls even harder (that's not a threat btw)

The Gentleman · Nov 12, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'd be reasonably sure the initial money pumped in would indeed have been down to management to do with as they wished... although I'd also be pretty sure the general plan was always agreed beforehand as being spend a bit on players, improve the side, rather than anything else.

In the grand scheme of things, the money put in then was a small pin-prick in the wider context, and the amount available would have been agreed to begin with also, so then it's down to the appointed management to make it work or not.

And only when it becomes a 'not' do you start taking an interest...

Still don't buy it though, good business leaders allow management to do the tasks they can't but always expect full reports on everything that goes on and with business it is never the here and now, it is always what about a few years down the line and I'm sure that someone in Sisu would have eyed up the Ricoh.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 12, 2014

The Gentleman said:
Still don't buy it though, good business leaders allow management to do the tasks they can't but always expect full reports on everything that goes on and with business it is never the here and now, it is always what about a few years down the line and I'm sure that someone in Sisu would have eyed up the Ricoh.

This top-end management isn't just involved with CCFC though. They might be important to us but, much as we're often told nobody else in Coventry much cares about the club, so for SISU it's just one of many speculations. I'd be fairly sure the idea was big return in 2-3 years and out. nice and simple, little lost really (relatively speaking, anyway!).

It's to their, errm, credit(?) that they didn't take the option of winding the whole shebang up when that didn't work. We'll see, a nice long lease certainly makes the Ricoh more attractive now, but I'm not entirely convinced it's the golden goose many have it down as. What it is handy for, of course, is if you buy a football club for zip and a stadium for zip, you can probably shift the both combined for 'something'. I'd be surprised if it's ever been about turning the Ricoh into a long term profit return though, that just makes little sense to me given previous track records. Streamline it, make it efficient, sell on something that has value where once it had none is the bog standard way of doing such things.

dongonzalos · Nov 12, 2014

Grendel said:
What would you define as buying in the cheap now we know what 100% ownership is a shade under £6 million for well beyond the lifetime if the actual stadiums existence?

Is that six million plus 14?

What was Daniel Gidneys price back in the day?

Looks like it may have gone down by 3 million?

stupot07 · Nov 13, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Is that six million plus 14?

What was Daniel Gidneys price back in the day?

Looks like it may have gone down by 3 million?

The £14m is the loan. They're buying 100% ACL and extended the lease for £6.5m, and taking on the liabilities.

And no, Gidney offered to sell the matchday F&B's to ccfc for £24m IIRC.

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Como · Nov 13, 2014

Higgs agreed to the Wasps purchase.

fernandopartridge · Nov 13, 2014

stupot07 said:
The £14m is the loan. They're buying 100% ACL and extended the lease for £6.5m, and taking on the liabilities.

And no, Gidney offered to sell the matchday F&B's to ccfc for £24m IIRC.

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He was a funny character. Worked for a company who's shareholders were a labour local authority and a charity. I remember reading an interview with him and his hero was Maggie Thatcher.

dongonzalos · Nov 13, 2014

stupot07 said:
The £14m is the loan. They're buying 100% ACL and extended the lease for £6.5m, and taking on the liabilities.

And no, Gidney offered to sell the matchday F&B's to ccfc for £24m IIRC.

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So they took on a 14 million pound loan and spent 6 million on ACL meaning the total cost was around 20 million?

stupot07 · Nov 13, 2014

dongonzalos said:
So they took on a 14 million pound loan and spent 6 million on ACL meaning the total cost was around 20 million?

Ha ha you're desperately trying to dress this up as a great deal. No ACL cost £6.5m. And they're taking on the liabilities. Stop spinning it Don.

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Rusty Trombone · Nov 13, 2014

stupot07 said:
Ha ha you're desperately trying to dress this up as a great deal. No ACL cost £6.5m. And they're taking on the liabilities. Stop spinning it Don.

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The quoted value of a deal often includes the liabilities, when people buy a house they don't say it cost the amount of the deposit, they say the amount including the mortgage.

stupot07 · Nov 13, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
The quoted value of a deal often includes the liabilities, when people buy a house they don't say it cost the amount of the deposit, they say the amount including the mortgage.

That's completely different, when you buy a house that is exactly what you have paid the previous owner for it. Ok this case the £14m is misleading and makes out they they have paid more for ACL's shares than they have.

If the loan was a commercial one and still with YB, no one would be mentioning it.

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Rusty Trombone · Nov 13, 2014

stupot07 said:
That's completely different, when you buy a house that is exactly what you have paid the previous owner for it. Ok this case the £14m is misleading and makes out they they have paid more for ACL's shares than they have.

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What if the previous owner had a mortgage, they would still say they had sold it for the full value, not the actual cash they receive.

stupot07 · Nov 13, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
What if the previous owner had a mortgage, they would still say they had sold it for the full value, not the actual cash they receive.

It's nothing but spin to make the deal look better than it is. The repayments are imbedded in the operating costs.

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Grendel · Nov 13, 2014

Has anyone confirmed the loan is actually being purchased or not? The council could still own the loan and wasps make the repayments could they not?

Rusty Trombone · Nov 13, 2014

stupot07 said:
It's nothing but spin to make the deal look better than it is. The repayments are imbedded in the operating costs.

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Its not unusual to value a deal in this way, as long as the different components are detailed then it's not spin, but certainly different people may interpret things differently.

Rusty Trombone · Nov 13, 2014

Grendel said:
Has anyone confirmed the loan is actually being purchased or not? The council could still own the loan and wasps make the repayments could they not?

I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere, TF mentioned it in the SCG minutes, but he may not be totally correct.

Not sure what would be best for Wasps, the interest from the Council may be lower, but maybe they want control through another company.

Grendel · Nov 13, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
Its not unusual to value a deal in this way, as long as the different components are detailed then it's not spin, but certainly different people may interpret things differently.

No there is never a situation where you would have an Independent value of a business worth £20 million as it has £14 million worth of loans attached to it. Of course its spin to say its worth £20 million

Rusty Trombone · Nov 13, 2014

Grendel said:
No there is never a situation where you would have an Independent value of a business worth £20 million as it has £14 million worth of loans attached to it. Of course its spin to say its worth £20 million

Depends what the assets are worth, a business could have £100m of loans and still be worth £200m.

Godiva · Nov 13, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
Depends what the assets are worth, a business could have £100m of loans and still be worth £200m.

Yes - assets is the key word here.
The liability is countered by an asset.
In this case the loan (liability) is countered by the value of lease (asset).

Wasps is buying ACL for £2.77mx2 = £5.5m - that's the purchase price.
On top they seem to pay £1m to extend the lease, which increases the asset value of the lease.

CCFC89 · Nov 14, 2014

I'm not sure if this question is in the right thread or this question as already been answered but its about purchasing tickets for this saturday's game. Now admit I haven't been to a Cov game for some time so i'm a bit unsure. Now I've only just decided today to attend tomorrow's game however i went online to purchase my tickets to find that the only place where I can collect my tickets is (not at the ground on the day of the game!) but actually at the City Club shop on Gallagher Retail Park. The problem i have is that I don't live in Coventry and don't have a car, now I just wanted to double check if it is possible to actually purchase tickets online but able to pick them up at the stadium. This all my sound daft but I'm just a little bit unsure, I know I can just purchase tickets on the day of the game at the ground but purchasing online does save a couple of quid and less hassle.

torchomatic · Nov 14, 2014

Not sure how this works but if you don't pick them up by a certain time, 1pm(?) for example, then they take them to the Ricoh for collection. There's a window next to the Wasps' Club Shop.

CCFC89 said:
I'm not sure if this question is in the right thread or this question as already been answered but its about purchasing tickets for this saturday's game. Now admit I haven't been to a Cov game for some time so i'm a bit unsure. Now I've only just decided today to attend tomorrow's game however i went online to purchase my tickets to find that the only place where I can collect my tickets is (not at the ground on the day of the game!) but actually at the City Club shop on Gallagher Retail Park. The problem i have is that I don't live in Coventry and don't have a car, now I just wanted to double check if it is possible to actually purchase tickets online but able to pick them up at the stadium. This all my sound daft but I'm just a little bit unsure, I know I can just purchase tickets on the day of the game at the ground but purchasing online does save a couple of quid and less hassle.

CCFC89 · Nov 14, 2014

torchomatic said:
Not sure how this works but if you don't pick them up by a certain time, 1pm(?) for example, then they take them to the Ricoh for collection. There's a window next to the Wasps' Club Shop.

Is this the case mate, cause I hope it is as this would be handy.

torchomatic · Nov 14, 2014

I'm sure they do that, but you may have to give them a ring to confirm.

CCFC89 said:
Is this the case mate, cause I hope it is as this would be handy.

dongonzalos · Nov 14, 2014

stupot07 said:
Ha ha you're desperately trying to dress this up as a great deal. No ACL cost £6.5m. And they're taking on the liabilities. Stop spinning it Don.

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Just quoting the facts you are leaving out.
Spinning some may say is what you are doing?

Roughly 20 million for ACL

dongonzalos · Nov 14, 2014

Grendel said:
Has anyone confirmed the loan is actually being purchased or not? The council could still own the loan and wasps make the repayments could they not?

Doesn't matter who is the receiver of the payments Waps have taken on around 14 million debt plus paying 6.5 million.
You can't just ignore the 14 million and say they got all of ACL for 6.5 million.

Some basic ricoh questions (1 Viewer)

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