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So, what EXACTLY is required for City to stay up? (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter The CableGuy
  • Start date Jan 29, 2012
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T

The CableGuy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #1
Let's look at the relegated teams that finished in 22nd place over the past 8 seasons in this league:

2010/11: Preston, 42 points
2009/10: Sheff Wed, 47 points
2008/09: Norwich, 46 points
2007/08: Leicester, 52 points (we finished in 21st/53 pts despite the Charlton 'performance')
2006/07: Southend, 42 points
2005/06: Crewe, 42 points
2004/05: Gillingham: 50 points (went down on goal difference, Crewe stayed up)
2003/04: Walsall, 51 points (went down on goal difference, Gillingham stayed up)

Over the last 8 seasons, teams on average have required more than 46.5 points to stay up.

Lets say that City need 47 points to stay up.

This is what they had until now, what they've got, and what they have left:

27 games played.
19 games left.
22 points at present.
57 points left to play for.

************************

Assuming that 47 points would be enough, City need another 25 points from their remaining 19 games.

City need something like:

8 wins and 1 draw from 19 games

OR perhaps

6 wins and 10 draws from 19 games

OR, if you're looking at a minimum number of wins required plus draws:

3 wins and 16 draws

....which would require City to lose none of their remaining 19 games.

The key fact is this:

Assuming that 47 points would be enough, City can afford to lose a maximum of TEN of their remaining 19 games. If they lost 10, they could still stay up, but only if they won 8 and drew 1 of their remaining games.

You, at the back? Stop laughing!

Of course if the teams above us pick up form and leave us further behind for dust at the bottom of the league, then this becomes totally irrelevant anyway and you should start asking your sat-nav the best way to get to Hartlepool and Yeovil.

So, there you have it. 8 wins and a draw required, give or take a win depending on what teams do and on what's happened over the previous 8 seasons.
 

pusbccfc

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #2
Very well done, I just can't see 8 wins, although we have started to win at home.
Once we get that win away we might start stringing in results.
 

WillieStanley

New Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #3
Goal difference is going to be a big factor if we were to stay up. Our goal difference isn't actually that bad. The next few weeks is make or break time. If we can beat all these teams around us then I'm sure we'll have a chance. If we don't, it is then I'll be more inclined to believe we are down. Stranger things have happened. If we get these two more loans and with Nimley and Hermann on side now, anything is possible!!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #4
Do-able. But a huge ask, especially when you consider we have only won 5 all season so far.

Said before, the key to any possible salvation is our away form. We desperately need some wins on the road.
 

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #5
Viagra !!!
 
M

musicmanskyblue

New Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #6
A Time Machine...
 

WillieStanley

New Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #7
Win at home, draw away, job done... wait...:facepalm:
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #8
Great work Cableguy but think it's also useful to look at what 21st place finished on to give us a better idea of what's required as that's where we need to finish: -

2010/11: Preston, 42 points - 21st = Doncaster 48 points
2009/10: Sheff Wed, 47 points - 21st = Crystal Palace 49 points
2008/09: Norwich, 46 points - 21st = Plymouth 51 points
2007/08: Leicester, 52 points (we finished in 21st/53 pts despite the Charlton 'performance')
2006/07: Southend, 42 points - 21st =Hull City 49 points
2005/06: Crewe, 42 points - 21st = QPR 50 points
2004/05: Gillingham: 50 points (went down on goal difference, Crewe stayed up)
2003/04: Walsall, 51 points (went down on goal difference, Gillingham stayed up)

I'm not sure 47 points will be enough, i fear we will need the magic 50....
 
T

The CableGuy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #9
stupot07 said:
Great work Cableguy but think it's also useful to look at what 21st place finished on to give us a better idea of what's required as that's where we need to finish: -

2010/11: Preston, 42 points - 21st = Doncaster 48 points
2009/10: Sheff Wed, 47 points - 21st = Crystal Palace 49 points
2008/09: Norwich, 46 points - 21st = Plymouth 51 points
2007/08: Leicester, 52 points (we finished in 21st/53 pts despite the Charlton 'performance')
2006/07: Southend, 42 points - 21st =Hull City 49 points
2005/06: Crewe, 42 points - 21st = QPR 50 points
2004/05: Gillingham: 50 points (went down on goal difference, Crewe stayed up)
2003/04: Walsall, 51 points (went down on goal difference, Gillingham stayed up)

I'm not sure 47 points will be enough, i fear we will need the magic 50....
Click to expand...

I did at first focus on the '21st place' teams but I thought saying 'that Donny stayed up with 48 pts' was depressing enough , when they could have stayed up with 43 pts last season.

I fear you could be right regarding the 50 pts mark. If that's the case and we actually get 50, then let's pray that goal difference comes into play: ours is -13, compared to -22 for both Donny and Forest. Of the bottom 7 teams, only Watford and Millwall have better goal difference than City.

If only we could score more goals. Defensively were not that bad compared to most of the teams in this dogfight. Ideally we could do with blasting 4 or five past Forest and Ipswich.
 
Last edited: Jan 29, 2012

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #10
stupot07 said:
Great work Cableguy but think it's also useful to look at what 21st place finished on to give us a better idea of what's required as that's where we need to finish: -

2010/11: Preston, 42 points - 21st = Doncaster 48 points
2009/10: Sheff Wed, 47 points - 21st = Crystal Palace 49 points
2008/09: Norwich, 46 points - 21st = Plymouth 51 points
2007/08: Leicester, 52 points (we finished in 21st/53 pts despite the Charlton 'performance')
2006/07: Southend, 42 points - 21st =Hull City 49 points
2005/06: Crewe, 42 points - 21st = QPR 50 points
2004/05: Gillingham: 50 points (went down on goal difference, Crewe stayed up)
2003/04: Walsall, 51 points (went down on goal difference, Gillingham stayed up)

I'm not sure 47 points will be enough, i fear we will need the magic 50....
Click to expand...

Why the hell does it matter what 21st finished on? 22nd goes down.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #11
stupot07 said:
Great work Cableguy but think it's also useful to look at what 21st place finished on to give us a better idea of what's required as that's where we need to finish: -

2010/11: Preston, 42 points - 21st = Doncaster 48 points
2009/10: Sheff Wed, 47 points - 21st = Crystal Palace 49 points
2008/09: Norwich, 46 points - 21st = Plymouth 51 points
2007/08: Leicester, 52 points (we finished in 21st/53 pts despite the Charlton 'performance')
2006/07: Southend, 42 points - 21st =Hull City 49 points
2005/06: Crewe, 42 points - 21st = QPR 50 points
2004/05: Gillingham: 50 points (went down on goal difference, Crewe stayed up)
2003/04: Walsall, 51 points (went down on goal difference, Gillingham stayed up)

I'm not sure 47 points will be enough, i fear we will need the magic 50....
Click to expand...


Not so sure this season. Think it could be lower, based on the fact that teams keep beating each other and nicking points here there and everywhere. It could be around 44 / 45 points this season possibly. If so, that would be a more achievable target to aim for. What we do desperately need from elsewhere is though, one or two teams to have terrible runs of form. Bristol have been having a few good results recently. I am just concerned that Forest simply cannot continue to be having such a dire run as they are. They have just two wins in 12 games.

It's still think it's too tough an ask for us. We need all the wins as stated and we need other teams to continue to falter.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #12
shmmeee said:
Why the hell does it matter what 21st finished on? 22nd goes down.
Click to expand...

Yes 22nd goes down 21st stays up - if you look at purely 22nd you may feel as though 43 points is good enough as Preston, Southend and Crewe went down on 42 points, however they were all significantly cast adrift from 21st place

In fact at this point of the season last year preston were bottom and 6 points adrift with a couple of games in hand and finished the season 6 points adrift and relegated.
Southend were second from bottom and 6 points from safety and managed only to shorten that gap to 5. (incidently leeds only had 14 points from 27 games)
Crewe were bottom and 6 points from safety mid Jan and finished 8 points adrift.

If these teams had have finished on 43 points they would have still been relegated which is why i feel looking at 21st is a clearer indication of what we need to stay up, especially considering it is us that needs to close the 6 point deficit up.
Crewe were
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #13
shmmeee said:
Why the hell does it matter what 21st finished on? 22nd goes down.
Click to expand...
I think what Stu is trying to get at is even if Preston had managed 47 points last season they would have still been relegated, so you could say Preston needed at least 48 points to even have a chance of survival last season.
 
S

Sutty

Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #14
WINS:

Ipswich (h)
Barnsley (h)
Peterbrough (h)
Millwall (h)
Doncaster (h)
Portsmouth (h)
Forest (a)

DRAWS:

Leeds (h)
Watford (a)
Bristol City (a)
Birmingham (h)
 

@richh87

Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #15
One good thing though looking at the fixtures is that our last 6 games are:

Peterborough (H)
Bristol City (A)
Burnley (A)
Millwall (H)
Doncaster (H)

Southampton (A)

Some real 6 pointers there; and 3 of them at home.

If we can just stay a few points off them til the run-in we might have a chance. Let's hope Pompey are docked points for admin and that someone else has a shocker financially too!
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #16
Voodoo probably, but I ain't giving up just yet.
 

BackRoomRummermill

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #17
A massive slice of luck would be good !!! but good post it has put everything ino perspective.
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #18
Sod the over-analysis: it all depends on other results, and some years are always a lot tighter than others. Me? I thought we were down before we won 3 home league games on the bounce. Now, there's an inkling of hope, but if we do stay up it will feel like we've won the cup. I've absolutely loved the last 3 games, and if the lads can carry on playing with such belief-and Sheff continue to put in such vintage performances-we have got a real chance! We're in good form just as the likes of P'boro are spiralling.
 

keef

New Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #19
My mates a P'boro fan and he thinks they are looking like relegation candidates.
There are too many games left to predict what will happen but i think we have a reasonable chance of staying up
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #20
I'd take 48 points now and let the others worry if I could. Sadly I think we'll still go with around 42ish. Hope I'm wrong. Feb is a big month with some winnable fixtures. If we can get on a run, gain some momentum and finally pick up an away win then we have a chance.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #21
keef said:
My mates a P'boro fan and he thinks they are looking like relegation candidates.
There are too many games left to predict what will happen but i think we have a reasonable chance of staying up
Click to expand...


i thought they'd be struggling from the off this year and were one of my tips for the drop. They have lost the last 3, so maybe they will continue their poor run of form a little while longer. It actually would have to be quite a while longer to be honest as they are 11 points clear of us at the moment.
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #22
Otis said:
i thought they'd be struggling from the off this year and were one of my tips for the drop. They have lost the last 3, so maybe they will continue their poor run of form a little while longer. It actually would have to be quite a while longer to be honest as they are 11 points clear of us at the moment.
Click to expand...

I'm expecting to be ahead of them in 4 games time then!!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #23
I can see them losing the next 4 maybe. Can't see us winning another 4 on the bounce though.
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #24
Otis said:
I can see them losing the next 4 maybe. Can't see us winning another 4 on the bounce though.
Click to expand...

I know sarcasm is immediately apparent when typed, but I thought it may have been caught out on my previous post!! I'll give it 5 games!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #25
No, got the sarcasm.
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2012
  • #26
basically we need to win half our remaining games? OK tall order but it never really works that way in reality.
Depends on other teams and what happens to them. Maybe Bristol will nose dive the next 18 games and we only need 5 wins and a draw to make it? So many parameters and if we are on 5 points from safety now and a couple of wins the whole process of what we need changes again?
You have to concentrate one game at a time and hope others do worse than you. That's probably the main factor to look for from here on in - hope others do worse than us.
The games will run out and the odds worsen so games like Blackpool are where we need to win as Bristol already lost and that gap quickly closes. There are no excuses now we must turn it around before it is too bigger bridge to climb.
 

Gaz

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 30, 2012
  • #27
57 points left to play for and we need to get 7 points more than Doncaster, Forrest, and Ipswich.
 

keef

New Member
  • Jan 30, 2012
  • #28
If we get 57 points we may make the play offs......

Make it happen Thorn you loser
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 30, 2012
  • #29
If we don't make the play-offs Thorn should be sacked.
 

Waldorf

New Member
  • Jan 30, 2012
  • #30
what EXACTLY is required for City to stay up?
Click to expand...
Either one point more than the third bottom team, or a better goal difference (by one goal) than them - it's as simple as that. Forget the "we need so many points" malarky, all the list of where fourth from bottom finished in terms of points tells us that we may need somewhere between 42 and 52 points.
I've been through too many relegation battles that I know we ain't down till the last result that makes it so. I remember us needing to go to Spurs (top of the league at the time?) and win on the last day of the season, and beating them. Teams in this division are so close in ability (yes, even us!) that if we need to go to Soton on the last day and get a result, I'd believe we could do it.

It ain't over til the fat lady sings, and she hasn't even started gargling yet.
 

Tankie

New Member
  • Jan 30, 2012
  • #31
"What do we need to stay up"
I suppose we could try an away day at Lourdes"
If Harry Shaw fancies it of cause
 

sky_blue_up_north

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 30, 2012
  • #32
Must win games coming up real 6 pointers, Ipswich, Forest we cannot afford to drop points against either of them. We must start picking up points away from home, our record is appalling. In the end if we stay up this season it will be the greatest escape ever and AT should be held in the same esteem as Hil, Curtis and Sillett.
 
T

The CableGuy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 31, 2012
  • #33
Assuming that 47 points would be enough, City can afford to lose a maximum of NINE of their remaining 18 games. If they lost 9, they could still stay up, but only if they won 8 and drew 1 of their remaining games.
Click to expand...

Updated after another injury time shocker!
 
E

ELSIE EFSEY

New Member
  • Jan 31, 2012
  • #34
Not looking good . Ipswich looked good tonight
 
M

Macca

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 31, 2012
  • #35
Whats needed to keep us up? A couple of reefers and an acid tab and I could see it
 
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