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So how could next years finances look ? (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter oldskyblue58
  • Start date May 27, 2013
Forums New posts

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • May 27, 2013
  • #1
Just guesses but food for thought. Based on 2011 accounts but discounted significantly

Ticket sales (say 5000 per match ave x£15 net) = 1,875,000
Cup games (say 3000 x 2 x £15) = 90,000
Shirt sponsorship = 300,000
other sponsorship = 100,000
TV money = 200,000
League money = 150,000
Shop sales = 100,000

total income 2,815,000

FFP player costs 60% of turnover = 1,689,000
Non FFP player costs (eg academy youngsters with contract under 21) = 208,000
Non playing staff salaries (Directors, Manager, Coaches, office, sales, etc) = 600,000
Stewards, groundstaff etc = 150,000
Stadium costs (assumes outright rent no contribution to costs) = 400,000
Academy Costs = 200,000
Training ground costs = 50,000
Merchandise cost = 30,000
Interest on existing borrowings (eg ARVO etc) = 1,000,000
Audit and other fees = 20,000
Equipment leasing = 50,000
Depreciation costs = 150,000

Total costs 4,547,000

anticipated losses 1,732,000

that would be in an average achieving year (from TF's comments about attendance).

If results went well TF reckons crowds of 7000 which with other stuff could increase income by £1m ish but some of the costs may go up eg stewards or if rent done on a deal of attendance for example

if crowds were say 3000 income would drop by £1m ish with some savings on cost like above

not saying any of this is right but it gives some ideas as to what could be the case.

it does look like that as well as financing a new build they will have losses to fund as well. Which all adds to the debt accumulating in the club.

make of it what you will
 

SkyBlueUkeman

New Member
  • May 27, 2013
  • #2
If he thinks he'll get at most 5,000 per match he is laughing.

I'm saying 20. At best.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2013
  • #3
We've gone for a cat 2 academy haven't we? I'm the FA have estimated that it would cost just shy of £1m to run a cat 2 academy, and they give you £450k towards it?
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2013
  • #4
i still cant believe that with all sisu's cost cutting, we are losing much money.

say we get 10k avr attendance times £15 say.

thats 150k per match, so for 23 home games, that's £3,450,000

now players wages, say our avr wage is £3,000 pw, times 22 players, for 52 weeks, that's £3,432,000.

so without all other factors, we make a profit on match tickets vs wages.

so how are we apparently losing 500k a month?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • May 27, 2013
  • #5
have assumed that they can not retain category B stupot07 because you need indoor facilities and only ones in the coventry area wont be available
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • May 27, 2013
  • #6
ccfc92 said:
i still cant believe that with all sisu's cost cutting, we are losing much money.

say we get 10k avr attendance times £15 say.

thats 150k per match, so for 23 home games, that's £3,450,000

now players wages, say our avr wage is £3,000 pw, times 22 players, for 52 weeks, that's £3,432,000.

so without all other factors, we make a profit on match tickets vs wages.

so how are we apparently losing 500k a month?
Click to expand...

but last year we had 34 players and i would guess next will be 28 in the squad.......... then add on the other wages(manager, directors, coaches, other staff), the overheads, the interest on loans, the depreciation. It might not be 500k pm but it will be a loss
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2013
  • #7
oldskyblue58 said:
but last year we had 34 players and i would guess next will be 28 in the squad.......... then add on the other wages(manager, directors, coaches, other staff), the overheads, the interest on loans, the depreciation. It might not be 500k pm but it will be a loss
Click to expand...

as i said, it was rough finances. we may be running at a loss, but it can't be as big as 500k per month
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2013
  • #8
ccfc92 said:
i still cant believe that with all sisu's cost cutting, we are losing much money.

say we get 10k avr attendance times £15 say.

thats 150k per match, so for 23 home games, that's £3,450,000

now players wages, say our avr wage is £3,000 pw, times 22 players, for 52 weeks, that's £3,432,000.

so without all other factors, we make a profit on match tickets vs wages.

so how are we apparently losing 500k a month?
Click to expand...
The losing 500k a month was said ages ago under Ranson

If you look at the last 12 months, considering we haven't paid any rent, cut wages a lot on coming down to league 1, had 2 big away days at Spurs and Arsenal and had a 31k gate up the Ricoh. Made approx 1.5 mill in Bigi and Keogh sales (possibly more in sales from add ons with Gunnar and Turner both being promoted) and barely paid a transfer fee then the accounts for the last year may look more pleasing than in previous years
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2013
  • #9
CCFC said:
The losing 500k a month was said ages ago under Ranson

If you look at the last 12 months, considering we haven't paid any rent, cut wages a lot on coming down to league 1, had 2 big away days at Spurs and Arsenal and had a 31k gate up the Ricoh. Made approx 1.5 mill in Bigi and Keogh sales (possibly more in sales from add ons with Gunnar and Turner both being promoted) and barely paid a transfer fee then the accounts for the last year may look more pleasing than in previous years
Click to expand...

exactly my point, so how we can be in "financial ruin" is beyond me
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2013
  • #10
CCFC said:
The losing 500k a month was said ages ago under Ranson

If you look at the last 12 months, considering we haven't paid any rent, cut wages a lot on coming down to league 1, had 2 big away days at Spurs and Arsenal and had a 31k gate up the Ricoh. Made approx 1.5 mill in Bigi and Keogh sales (possibly more in sales from add ons with Gunnar and Turner both being promoted) and barely paid a transfer fee then the accounts for the last year may look more pleasing than in previous years
Click to expand...

To be fair 31k at £5 a head is actually marginally less than an average 10.8k league match at approx £15 per head. Also we wouldn't have got the whole £1.5m up front for Keogh and bigi.

But I take your point, we couldn't have been far from breakeven this season.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2013
  • #11
ccfc92 said:
i still cant believe that with all sisu's cost cutting, we are losing much money.

say we get 10k avr attendance times £15 say.

thats 150k per match, so for 23 home games, that's £3,450,000

now players wages, say our avr wage is £3,000 pw, times 22 players, for 52 weeks, that's £3,432,000.

so without all other factors, we make a profit on match tickets vs wages.

so how are we apparently losing 500k a month?
Click to expand...

If you add the add ons that OSB included to that. Your talking another £3m so that's a potential £250k loss per month.
 

cloughie

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2013
  • #12
Assume playing in walsall or elsewhere and the gates will be less than 2000 plus away supporters

Rent alone against income becomes a negative
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2013
  • #13
stupot07 said:
To be fair 31k at £5 a head is actually marginally less than an average 10.8k league match at approx £15 per head. Also we wouldn't have got the whole £1.5m up front for Keogh and bigi.

But I take your point, we couldn't have been far from breakeven this season.
Click to expand...

I think its Implied from the Admin report that Circa £3M. for losses on last season IMO ......could be wrong though.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • May 27, 2013
  • #14
So if we can stay away & they only get a 2K gate the losses pitch up to close on £3M, cool.. let them take that & see how they like it.
 
S

Skybluesquirrel

New Member
  • May 28, 2013
  • #15
OSB knows what he is doing. Makes sense to me. Would the club have to pay for transport for fans as part of any deal agreed with the football league? Over the course of a year, a mini bus, petrol and some snacks could add up...

Ive used OSB's figures and tried to calculate what happens in two other scenarios - namely play at the Ricoh and play at the Ricoh with new owners. Both very unlikely but did it to show how much more SISU are willing to finance in their seeming determination to play outside of the city.

I can't get the spreadsheet to upload, but the main points are;

Play at Ricoh

Increase matchday income to around £2.8 million, due to increased gates of £7,000. This assumes some will boycott but allows for more support as we will have a greater budget for wages.

Added another £50K to shop sales for additional sales due to remaining in the city.

Wages can increase to £2.3 million.

Overall losses are down from £1.7 million to £1.3 million

New Owners

Increase matchday income to around £2.8 million, due to increased gates of 11,500. This assumes no boycott and allows for more support as some fans will return and greater success as we will have a greater budget for wages.

Added another £75K to shop sales for additional sales due to optimism of new start.

Wages can increase to £3.2 million.

Overall losses are down from £1.7 million to £700K, if all the extra income goes on contracts. You could make smaller losses by cutting the wages.

So, around £400,000 to make a point. Assuming ACL would let them back in of of course.
 
B

Bluegloucester

New Member
  • May 28, 2013
  • #16
Skybluesquirrel said:
OSB knows what he is doing. Makes sense to me. Would the club have to pay for transport for fans as part of any deal agreed with the football league? Over the course of a year, a mini bus, petrol and some snacks could add up...

Ive used OSB's figures and tried to calculate what happens in two other scenarios - namely play at the Ricoh and play at the Ricoh with new owners. Both very unlikely but did it to show how much more SISU are willing to finance in their seeming determination to play outside of the city.


I can't get the spreadsheet to upload, but the main points are;

Play at Ricoh

Increase matchday income to around £2.8 million, due to increased gates of £7,000. This assumes some will boycott but allows for more support as we will have a greater budget for wages.

Added another £50K to shop sales for additional sales due to remaining in the city.

Wages can increase to £2.3 million.

Overall losses are down from £1.7 million to £1.3 million

New Owners

Increase matchday income to around £2.8 million, due to increased gates of 11,500. This assumes no boycott and allows for more support as some fans will return and greater success as we will have a greater budget for wages.

Added another £75K to shop sales for additional sales due to optimism of new start.

Wages can increase to £3.2 million.

Overall losses are down from £1.7 million to £700K, if all the extra income goes on contracts. You could make smaller losses by cutting the wages.

So, around £400,000 to make a point. Assuming ACL would let them back in of of course.
Click to expand...

How is income of £2.8m for gates of 7k and 11.5k? Bit confused SBS
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
  • May 28, 2013
  • #17
This is wild guessimating
 
S

Skybluesquirrel

New Member
  • May 29, 2013
  • #18
Bluegloucester said:
How is income of £2.8m for gates of 7k and 11.5k? Bit confused SBS
Click to expand...

Using the same figures as the original post. Just increasing the attendances/matchday receipts.
 
S

Skybluesquirrel

New Member
  • May 29, 2013
  • #19
Paxman II said:
This is wild guessimating
Click to expand...

Not really Paxman. Its called projections and forecasting. Something I've done numerous times for companies. Guessing OSB has too.

Surprising how accurate you can be...
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • May 29, 2013
  • #20
Skybluesquirrel said:
Not really Paxman. Its called projections and forecasting. Something I've done numerous times for companies. Guessing OSB has too.

Surprising how accurate you can be...
Click to expand...

No guestimating necessary SBS ,the Clubs own official survey revealed a take up of 25% to travel and watch our team.
 
B

Bluegloucester

New Member
  • May 29, 2013
  • #21
Skybluesquirrel said:
Using the same figures as the original post. Just increasing the attendances/matchday receipts.
Click to expand...

Surely a gate of 11.5k would produce more revenue than a gate of 7k?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • May 29, 2013
  • #22
Do you pay VAT on tickets?
 
B

Bluegloucester

New Member
  • May 29, 2013
  • #23
stupot07 said:
Do you pay VAT on tickets?
Click to expand...

Yes, you do pay VAT
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • May 29, 2013
  • #24
Bluegloucester said:
Yes, you do pay VAT
Click to expand...

Thought so, so that's 20% of the ticket income we don't see anything of then and needs to be added to the anticipated losses.
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • May 29, 2013
  • #25
Does anybody know when the accounts for ACL are due out? Must be soon surely?
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • May 29, 2013
  • #26
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/27691-ACL-£1m-profit/page3
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • May 30, 2013
  • #27
Flying Fokker said:
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/27691-ACL-£1m-profit/page3
Click to expand...

Wish you hadn't posted that, a trip through CJ Parkers mind is just an invitation to madness.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 30, 2013
  • #28
lordsummerisle said:
Wish you hadn't posted that, a trip through CJ Parkers mind is just an invitation to madness.
Click to expand...

Visions of a chris Coleman and Andy thorn management duo and hoards of Coventry fans verbally abusing primary school children by any chance?
 
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