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Sky Sports saying Tudgay has signed (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter junglej13
  • Start date Jul 29, 2014
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Noggin

New Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #36
shmmeee said:
You mis-represent my argument.
Click to expand...

its his raison d’être
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #37
Noggin said:
its his raison d’être
Click to expand...

It's not misrepresenting his argument it's showing it's a false position. There is a difference between a free transfer of a player in contract and a free agent.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #38
shmmeee said:
I'm not saying all frees are crap, I'm saying that saying that all signings that cost money are crap is stupid.
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Of course that is stupid but at the level of transfer fees we would be paying it doesn't bring any extra guarantee of player quality than a free transfer. Regardless of how much we have taken it was stupid to expect us to go and splash £1 million on bringing players in.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #39
Grendel said:
It's not misrepresenting his argument it's showing it's a false position. There is a difference between a free transfer of a player in contract and a free agent.
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Wait, what?

All I was saying is that those who were reeling off lists of free players to make some kind of point (like you were) were making a silly argument as I could list players who were free and bloody awful. Similarly, you and others were listing players that cost money and were average to make the same point.
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #40
shmmeee said:
BRB off to tell the owners of Real and Man City they can save millions.

This is such an asinine argument.

I could reel out Manset, Slager, Philliskirk, Kilbane, Elliot, Edge, Heridasson, O'Donovan.

And that's just the last 3 seasons. Not even getting to the likes of Sherwood and De Zeeuw.
Click to expand...

As others have pointed out, we're not remotely close to being like Real Madrid or Man City (other than the Sky Blue connection). To link them is ridiculous.

My point is that it would be great to spend money on new strikers. However, for those we have paid money on and failed as well as brought in on frees and failed, there's been examples of not spending money on strikers and it proving rather fruitful...a la Clarke/McGoldrick. Regardless of how we got to this situation, we're a L1 club and need to cut our cloth accordingly. I'd rather us bring in freebies who 'might' do the job rather than spending a million on someone who 'might' do the job.

One final thing...I'd like to think I'm articulate and have a good grasp of the English language, but what the 'eff' does 'Asinine' mean?!

WM
 
W

wal3590

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #41
"I wouldn't care as much if we hadn't got rid of £4m worth of players this summer. Is it really too much to ask that we go in for one of the many players moving around at this level for a fee? Why constrict yourself when you've got that cash floating about?"

Maybe because it will be going straight in Sisu's back pocket rightly or wrongly. I am fairly happy with the signings so far, I am sure some of the Wilson money has probably been spent on wages, Pugh, Johnson, Tudgay O'brien, and Swanson all have dropped a level. I really don't think we can moan about the players we have brought in, all fairly decent in my eyes. Credit to Waggott and Pressley in my eyes
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #42
CCFC said:
Of course that is stupid but at the level of transfer fees we would be paying it doesn't bring any extra guarantee of player quality than a free transfer. Regardless of how much we have taken it was stupid to expect us to go and splash £1 million on bringing players in.
Click to expand...

Why? Weren't we promised it'll be reinvested? Is it better to spend the money on agents fees and wages for an out on contract player instead?
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #43
CCFC said:
Of course that is stupid but at the level of transfer fees we would be paying it doesn't bring any extra guarantee of player quality than a free transfer. Regardless of how much we have taken it was stupid to expect us to go and splash £1 million on bringing players in.
Click to expand...

So at what price does it start guaranteeing quality? By definition, however infinitesimal the amount of money we have, it still opens doors that cannot be opened if we have none (and lord knows we need to be kicking a few doors down).
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #44
shmmeee said:
Wait, what?

All I was saying is that those who were reeling off lists of free players to make some kind of point (like you were) were making a silly argument as I could list players who were free and bloody awful. Similarly, you and others were listing players that cost money and were average to make the same point.
Click to expand...

When you referred to the "many" players signed for a fee at this level - how many?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #45
wal3590 said:
"I wouldn't care as much if we hadn't got rid of £4m worth of players this summer. Is it really too much to ask that we go in for one of the many players moving around at this level for a fee? Why constrict yourself when you've got that cash floating about?"

Maybe because it will be going straight in Sisu's back pocket rightly or wrongly. I am fairly happy with the signings so far, I am sure some of the Wilson money has probably been spent on wages, Pugh, Johnson, Tudgay O'brien, and Swanson all have dropped a level. I really don't think we can moan about the players we have brought in, all fairly decent in my eyes. Credit to Waggott and Pressley in my eyes
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None of the money has gone on wages, it's gone on paying for the Sixfields adventure. I'd bet my account that when the accounts come out the wage bill this season is lower than last.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #46
Grendel said:
When you referred to the "many" players signed for a fee at this level - how many?
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https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

I make it 21 at a rough count.
 
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wal3590

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #47
shmmeee said:
None of the money has gone on wages, it's gone on paying for the Sixfields adventure. I'd bet my account that when the accounts come out the wage bill this season is lower than last.
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I'm not so sure, Baker and Murphy will be on "biggish" wages I guess but like I said in previous post most the incoming players have dropped down a level, okay they may have to take a smallish paycut but Tudgay would have been on 10k at Forest I would have thought?
 

skybluedan

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #48
ccfcmustang said:
I just cant for the life of me understand why we wont spend a bit of cash on a striker, the striker position is one where you need to spend a bit of cash to get a player capable of getting 10-15 goals a season, 20+ and your probably looking for a figure over £1m, i accept that is probably too much. But spending half that on a player whos going to score 15 is worth it in my book
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Totally agree bit of money on that higdon guy would be worth it
 
L

LB87ccfc

Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #49
skybluedan said:
Totally agree bit of money on that higdon guy would be worth it
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It seems to me we waiting to see what kind of budget we will have ie if return to the Ricoh we will have a bigger budget than what we have now...
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #50
Jack Griffin said:
No chance he has any resale value. 1 year is not unreasonable for a striker that age, the younger midfielders signed got 2 year deals. This reflects market forces..
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Yeah. The jobs market in the lower leagues now more closely reflects the 'real' jobs market (apart from the wages but I think even those are under pressure).
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #51
Yes your right as usual all our loan players have turned out superbly?

Easy to pick out players that haven't made it what about the ones that did.
Huckerby, Dublin, Keene, just to mention 3.

Really a shit argument Grendel need to do better.

Grendel said:
Well I long for day we had Freddie Eastwood and Cody McDonald those free scoring goal machines.

Things dried up when we got that loan from forest, that freebie from charlton and that kid from the academy.
Click to expand...
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #52
wal3590 said:
I'm not so sure, Baker and Murphy will be on "biggish" wages I guess but like I said in previous post most the incoming players have dropped down a level, okay they may have to take a smallish paycut but Tudgay would have been on 10k at Forest I would have thought?
Click to expand...

By that logic Clarke and Moussa would also have been on decent wages, as both came from the Championship and we were in the Championship when Christie signed his new deal as well.
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #53
Never all players in this league are free didn't you know that?


shmmeee said:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

I make it 21 at a rough count.
Click to expand...
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #54
letsallsingtogether said:
Never all players in this league are free didn't you know that?
Click to expand...

Less than one per club - not exactly many is it?
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #55
shmmeee said:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

I make it 21 at a rough count.
Click to expand...

This one should come out everytime that somebody mentions "Community asset" or "Local childrens charity".

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #56
lordsummerisle said:
This one should come out everytime that somebody mentions "Community asset" or "Local childrens charity".

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion
Click to expand...

You could have a field day with that site and this forum.
 
W

wal3590

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #57
shmmeee said:
By that logic Clarke and Moussa would also have been on decent wages, as both came from the Championship and we were in the Championship when Christie signed his new deal as well.
Click to expand...

Sort of agree but how many of us had really heard of Moussa before he signed? I think Tudgay is a lot better known and has been at bigger clubs..meaning bigger wages. I am sitting on the fence on this one really, yes I would like us to spend some money but only if the deal is right on a quality player, but on the other hand why spend the money if Pressley feels he can get better players on Frees and loans? Less risk and expectation on the player I guess.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #58
wal3590 said:
Sort of agree but how many of us had really heard of Moussa before he signed? I think Tudgay is a lot better known and has been at bigger clubs..meaning bigger wages. I am sitting on the fence on this one really, yes I would like us to spend some money but only if the deal is right on a quality player, but on the other hand why spend the money if Pressley feels he can get better players on Frees and loans? Less risk and expectation on the player I guess.
Click to expand...

You can't keep moving hte goalposts, are we talking about wages or frees (I'm bored of the frees argument now, it goes nowhere).

In terms of wages (roughly):

Tudgay = Clarke
O'Brien = Moussa
Swanson = Baker
Pugh = Murphy
Miller = Christie

That leaves all the transfer money, plus Wilson's and Marshall's wages for any other signings/paying for Sixfields.
 
W

wal3590

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #59
What you on about? All I've said is in my opinion we have probably spent a little bit of thew Wilson money on some wages on the players who have come in. I then said I don't mind if we spend some of it on Transfer fees or not aslong as we bring the right player in.

Now try and make an argument out of that
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #60
wal3590 said:
What you on about? All I've said is in my opinion we have probably spent a little bit of thew Wilson money on some wages on the players who have come in. I then said I don't mind if we spend some of it on Transfer fees or not aslong as we bring the right player in.

Now try and make an argument out of that
Click to expand...

I have no idea what we're arguing about.

Hug it out?
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #61
Yes but which are the clubs hat are spending and why?

Oh and how many of those loan players turn out any good.

Suppose we'll find out you will be on here later in the season slagging them off as usual.


Grendel said:
Less than one per club - not exactly many is it?
Click to expand...
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #62
letsallsingtogether said:
Yes but which are the clubs hat are spending and why?

Oh and how many of those loan players turn out any good.

Suppose we'll find out you will be on here later in the season slagging them off as usual.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find most people are slagging them off already.
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #63
Grendel said:
I think you'll find most people are slagging them off already.
Click to expand...

No they aren't, even amongst those people who expect us to struggle this year the general opinion is the signings have been of a better quality than expected but we've gotten rid of alot of players we know are good and our signings only might be good that along with the squad currently at least being way to small.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #64
On official site now, done deal!
 

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #65
http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/marcus-tudgay-signing-coventry-city-280714-1789488.aspx

Subject to FL and FA approval? Or is that mandatory for every transfer now?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #66
We're not still under embargo are we?

Edit: When did the 75% of outgoing player wages rule get lifted?
 
Last edited: Jul 29, 2014

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #67
Tudgay a Promising signing on paper. We seem to have done some reasonable deals, let's hope they stay fit? I still don't think we have improved on last years squad, would like to see two more coming in. A striker and a central mid before the season starts. In midfield I would like to see a Lee Carsley type player, can put the foot in and win the ball and distribute it simply and effectively.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #68
SlowerThanPlatt said:
http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/marcus-tudgay-signing-coventry-city-280714-1789488.aspx

Subject to FL and FA approval? Or is that mandatory for every transfer now?
Click to expand...

Isn't every transfer subject to approval?
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #69
Hobo said:
Tudgay a Promising signing on paper. We seem to have done some reasonable deals, let's hope they stay fit? I still don't think we have improved on last years squad, would like to see two more coming in. A striker and a central mid before the season starts. In midfield I would like to see a Lee Carsley type player, can put the foot in and win the ball and distribute it simply and effectively.
Click to expand...

See I think we have that with fleck who I think the majority rate. I think we need a more moussa type of player, a playmaker someone who can get 10+ goals and produce a bit of flair, something different. I don't see that in the team.

Also 1 or 2 more strikers as SM and MT are not enough obviously.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2014
  • #70
Kingokings204 said:
See I think we have that with fleck who I think the majority rate. I think we need a more moussa type of player, a playmaker someone who can get 10+ goals and produce a bit of flair, something different. I don't see that in the team.

Also 1 or 2 more strikers as SM and MT are not enough obviously.
Click to expand...

Have you seen o'brien or Swanson play? I've only seen 45 mins at Nuneaton, but Swanson in particular looked a busy tricky player.

Plus Moussa wasn't a playmaker, and his goal tally last season was by far the best of his entire career and no guarantee it would ever be repeated.
 
Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
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