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Sky Blues owners to bid for Higgs' shares in ACL (4 Viewers)

  • Thread starter SimonGilbert
  • Start date Oct 27, 2014
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D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #106
Noggin said:
If you have 2 equal offers, 1 company has brought from you before and everything went well, the other company said they wanted to buy from you before, pulled out, tried to destroy you, didn't pay the costs you had accrued as they had agreed and took you to court with a team of 7 lawyers. Which of the 2 offers would you take?
Click to expand...

The one that benefited the social wellbeing of the city of Coventry.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #107
Noggin said:
If you have 2 equal offers, 1 company has brought from you before and everything went well, the other company said they wanted to buy from you before, pulled out, tried to destroy you, didn't pay the costs you had accrued as they had agreed and took you to court with a team of 7 lawyers. Which of the 2 offers would you take?
Click to expand...

The one Alan Edward Higgs would want to sell to.
 

Warwickhunt

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #108
italiahorse said:
I still don't believe this is as straight forward as just paying out a couple of million.
Be nice if it was.

IMHO I would say that if CCFC Ltd are to bid then SISU need to put money into CCFC Ltd.
If they do that then the people owed money by Ltd surely get first pick of that money before they can use it to buy the share.
In addition I would also say that who ever owns that share also takes on half the ACL debt.

It would be nice to understand why Sisu are not snapping Higgs hand off if it's clear cut.
It would also be nice to know whether Wasps would like to split ACL with Sisu.
Click to expand...
Majority of the money is owed to SISU as ACL has had a payout + escrow account of 1.1 million anyway
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #109
skybluetony176 said:
Once bitten, twice shy?
Click to expand...

Noggin said:
If you have 2 equal offers, 1 company has brought from you before and everything went well, the other company said they wanted to buy from you before, pulled out, tried to destroy you, didn't pay the costs you had accrued as they had agreed and took you to court with a team of 7 lawyers. Which of the 2 offers would you take?
Click to expand...
You accept both and continue to negotiate in good faith like grown up business people.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #110
In fairness Noggin the court found that SISU owed nothing and the agreement was void.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #111
Noggin said:
If you have 2 equal offers, 1 company has brought from you before and everything went well, the other company said they wanted to buy from you before, pulled out, tried to destroy you, didn't pay the costs you had accrued as they had agreed and took you to court with a team of 7 lawyers. Which of the 2 offers would you take?
Click to expand...

When have wasps bought from Alan Higgs charity before?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #112
If he puts in one that AEHC finds acceptable then he has the right to a great deal of information subject to NDA's etc.

He has the right anyway as Liquidator of CCFC - but he is then bound by the NDA's
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #113
fernandopartridge said:
You accept both and continue to negotiate in good faith like grown up business people.
Click to expand...

Thats the problem though isn't it FP. SISU have eroded all the good faith away with Higgs and left Higgs with the easy excuse to accept a equivilent like for like offer from Wasps. Lets hope that either Higgs have short memories or are more grown up than SISU.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #114
Really believe that they should bid for more than wasps and make it public.
How can the council or the charity turn down offer that leads to the charity getting more money.
However it needs to be a straight payment up front deal and a drop the pointless JR deal.
They would have the whole city backing them and probably most the councillors.

Have feeling they will underbid and try a court appeal and cock it all up again though.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #115
skybluetony176 said:
Lets hope that either Higgs have short memories or are more grown up than SISU.
Click to expand...

(balloons)
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #116
Deleted member 5849 said:
(balloons)
Click to expand...

(sense of humour)
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #117
oldfiver said:
If he puts in one that AEHC finds acceptable then he has the right to a great deal of information subject to NDA's etc.

He has the right anyway as Liquidator of CCFC - but he is then bound by the NDA's
Click to expand...

he has the right to information about CCFC Ltd certainly, he should for instance have the full details of the option in his possession and should know for certain who actually owns the option (physically or beneficially) so there should be no argument about that.

He does not have the right to information about commercial arrangements between the stakeholders of a third party (ACL) unless he has a bid accepted by one of those stakeholders for the sale of their interest to CCFC Ltd. At the moment he doesn't have that acceptance indeed he hasn't even put a bid in. So where in law exactly does he have this right to information on the JV - CCFC Ltd have no part right or interest in the JV, ACL, Wasps, AEHC
 
Last edited: Oct 27, 2014

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #118
skybluetony176 said:
(sense of humour)
Click to expand...

(desperate excuses)
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #119
dongonzalos said:
Really believe that they should bid for more than wasps and make it public.
How can the council or the charity turn down offer that leads to the charity getting more money.
However it needs to be a straight payment up front deal and a drop the pointless JR deal.
They would have the whole city backing them and probably most the councillors.

Have feeling they will underbid and try a court appeal and cock it all up again though.
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with the council anymore.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #120
covcity4life said:
(desperate excuses)
Click to expand...

(not really. it didn't happen in the board room it happened after a football match and is in no way responsible for the breakdown of any deal (past or present) for higgs share of ACL)
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #121
The trouble is Joy is used to bidding in distressed msrkets not bouyant ones.

SISU need to be successful in buying this 50% or we are stuffed for years to come. They really are playing catch up afyrr trying to be greedy.
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #122
(too big a sentence for brackets pal)
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #123
covcity4life said:
(too big a sentence for brackets pal)
Click to expand...

(sorry)
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #124
skybluetony176 said:
Nothing to do with the council anymore.
Click to expand...

I agree but some have suggested the council may exert pressure due to the wasps deal.
However there is nothing reported in the wasps deal that says the whole deal is dependant on the charity selling their share as well
 
Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #125
oldskyblue58 said:
he has the right to information about CCFC Ltd certainly, he should for instance have the full details of the option in his possession and should know for certain who actually owns the option (physically or beneficially) so there should be no argument about that.

He does not have the right to information about commercial arrangements between the stakeholders of a third party (ACL) unless he has a bid accepted by one of those stakeholders for the sale of their interest to CCFC Ltd. At the moment he doesn't have that acceptance indeed he hasn't even put a bid in. So where in law exactly does he have this right to information on the JV - CCFC Ltd have no part right or interest in the JV, ACL, Wasps, AEHC
Click to expand...

As Liquidator he has a right to know anything about the assets of CCFC within his remit.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #126
and the assets of CCFC ltd that he has power over are what exactly?

1) a option formula that can not be exercised
2) the right to be informed of a bid received by AEHC for the shares they own in ACL
3) the right to make a bid for said shares
 
Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #127
SimonGilbert said:
It has been completed and is not reliant on anything else - confirmed by the council.
Click to expand...

That's good someone here was telling us it is dependant so they have their 'facts' wrong once again.
No excuse them for SISU putting in a higher bid than wasps. I think (not fact) that a charity maybe legally obliged to do what is best for the charity how can they turn down a higher offer if it is payment straight away?

Unless their is some truth in wasps having a power to veto?
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #128
oldskyblue58 said:
and the assets of CCFC ltd that he has power over are what exactly?
Click to expand...

The option
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #129
oldskyblue58 said:
Unless they match or better the deal with Wasps then it is going to be rejected. There is the problem for SISU. They do not actually know the finer details of the Wasps offer to AEHC. Which means they could easily undercook the offer and that's it gone. This is not a bidding war or an auction. The option allows one crack at it get that wrong and that's it gone.

The original JV deal SISU should already have details of from the previous due diligence, if they haven't what the hell were they doing at that time? They could make an offer that matches or betters Wasps subject to disclosure of the revised JV details (if it has been revised at all). Do the ACL stakeholders have to disclose the details of anything at the moment - would have thought they are within their rights not to release anything detailed at the moment. Make an offer subject to disclosure that is of interest and that's different. Is that possible though considering AEHC probably want nothing to do with SISU - so it would have to be a better offer to make them have to consider it
Click to expand...

I seem to remember that the joint venture agreement was changed as part of the council buying out the mortgage.
It would not be unreasonable to ask for details of the changes.

As you say: The club have only one shot at getting the bid right.
And even if they do log 'the right bid', there's nothing to suggest that Higgs are bound to accept it.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #130
Has the veto question been bottomed out?

If it is genuine and wasps have the power to veto then this is a waste of time.

If the council have a power to veto or there us no power to veto. Then it really comes down to SISU bidding 3 million plus with a promise of payment immediately.

3 million for half of ACL of 30 million for a 18k stadium?

Come in SISU show you can do the right thing for once do not try and manoeuvre on this one show us you have learnt from your mistakes.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #131
Godiva said:
I seem to remember that the joint venture agreement was changed as part of the council buying out the mortgage.
It would not be unreasonable to ask for details of the changes.

As you say: The club have only one shot at getting the bid right.
And even if they do log 'the right bid', there's nothing to suggest that Higgs are bound to accept it.
Click to expand...

If it is a payment up front for more than the existing bid are they not bound by the charities commission to do what is best for the charity?
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #132
dongonzalos said:
Has the veto question been bottomed out?

If it is genuine and wasps have the power to veto then this is a waste of time.

If the council have a power to veto or there us no power to veto. Then it really comes down to SISU bidding 3 million plus with a promise of payment immediately.

3 million for half of ACL of 30 million for a 18k stadium?

Come in SISU show you can do the right thing for once do not try and manoeuvre on this one show us you have learnt from your mistakes.
Click to expand...

Where does £30M come from?

You also forget that ACL has debts of £15m approx that is has to service and repay.

We do not know whch arm of WASPS has bought the shares but if that was to fold all the debt would effectively fall on the remaining shareholder
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #133
dongonzalos said:
If it is a payment up front for more than the existing bid are they not bound by the charities commission to do what is best for the charity?
Click to expand...

It does not always come down to money - I understood the HIGGS investment was to help provide the community with a local sports facility and for its local football team.

( I do not know ) but if helps fulfill those aims it could argue it has met its obligations and aims?

Just thinking aloud
 
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #134
oldfiver said:
I have said before and will repeat - until we have actually seen what CCC have "sold" to WASPS you do not know what they have "bought". WASPS may have been tempted by added incentives above those available to SISU - this might be the reason they are refusing to give out details
Click to expand...

It could also be that Wasps have given incentives so that CCC sell,ie why have compusory purchase orders been instigated on certain businesses in the Ricoh area:thinking about:
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #135
Godiva said:
I seem to remember that the joint venture agreement was changed as part of the council buying out the mortgage.
It would not be unreasonable to ask for details of the changes.

As you say: The club have only one shot at getting the bid right.
And even if they do log 'the right bid', there's nothing to suggest that Higgs are bound to accept it.
Click to expand...

Got a reference for that God.
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #136
oldfiver said:
It does not always come down to money - I understood the HIGGS investment was to help provide the community with a local sports facility and for its local football team.

( I do not know ) but if helps fulfill those aims it could argue it has met its obligations and aims?

Just thinking aloud
Click to expand...

The Higgs investment was to bail CCFC out when it needed some money.
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #137
Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
It could also be that Wasps have given incentives so that CCC sell,ie why have compusory purchase orders been instigated on certain businesses in the Ricoh area:thinking about:
Click to expand...

Thats interesting, which businesses?
 
S

SkyBlueCharlie

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #138
I just don't understand why they (Sisu) are going through all of this hassle.

(I) They've moved on and are building a new stadium, details of which will be announced as soon as they are available so why would they want half a share in a stadium they they don't want?

(2) If they only own 50% of ACL they they won't have ALL of the revenues etc for 365 days of the year which I thought that was a pre-requisite for the new stadium.
 
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #139
Nick said:
That Sky Blue PM seems like a fun guy.



Where are these people found?
Click to expand...

Think thats our old friend do miss him
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Oct 27, 2014
  • #140
Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
It could also be that Wasps have given incentives so that CCC sell,ie why have compusory purchase orders been instigated on certain businesses in the Ricoh area:thinking about:
Click to expand...

Would be logical I suppose. The second 'test' set out by Cllr Taylor way back when was any owner would have to promise to use the Ricoh Arena to regenerate the north of Coventry.
 
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