Sisu you are a disgrace... (15 Viewers)

valiant15 · Mar 22, 2012

I think the expectations of city fans is slightly higher than mtfc. If sisu took on more than they should of then tough shit.

canleykid · Mar 22, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
The owners do support the club - at last count they were tens of millions of pounds in the hole. The only issue is whether they should "support" it more...which brings into play the fan factor.

If you get small crowds, you have to be run as a small team (unless you have a sugar daddy). To infer otherwise is to basically argue that the fans of Macclesfield should hold a grudge against their owners for not spending millions of pounds.

Sisu keep saying they will sort it we have been fed on there bullshit for four years,if they want to fill the ground they should invest a bit more cos if they did we wouldn't be in this mess,there paying the bills that is correct however its not from there own pocket they just give the club a loan from one of there other businesses and charge interest,they've done nothing to support the club all they do is for there benefit.

@richh87 · Mar 22, 2012

sky blue zam said:
Its just a shame even pompey have more cash than us. They own their own ground so will be making some sort of income....... SISU OUT

Sure I heard on SkySports News that they don't own the ground anymore.

Colonel Mustard · Mar 22, 2012

valiant15 said:
I think the expectations of city fans is slightly higher than mtfc. If sisu took on more than they should of then tough shit.

That's the point - why should expectations be any higher? We may have a better history than Macclesfield, but that shouldn't leave us feeling entitled. It is not unreasonable to say that the average club is a reflection of its fanbase, with the occasional sugar daddy being an exceptional variable.

Colonel Mustard · Mar 22, 2012

canleykid said:
Sisu keep saying they will sort it we have been fed on there bullshit for four years,if they want to fill the ground they should invest a bit more cos if they did we wouldn't be in this mess

We couldn't fill Highfield Road when we were in the Premiership and Chairman Richardson was "investing" £60m. I do believe that a modest investment could take this club a long way, but we shouldn't take anything for granted.

there paying the bills that is correct however its not from there own pocket they just give the club a loan from one of there other businesses and charge interest,they've done nothing to support the club all they do is for there benefit.

I'm not sure how you can loan a club like CCFC £30m (or whatever it is) and see it as financially beneficial.

Grendel · Mar 22, 2012

valiant15 said:
I think the expectations of city fans is slightly higher than mtfc. If sisu took on more than they should of then tough shit.

Of course. And twenty years ago our expectations would have been considerably higher than hull, blackpool, Swansea etc.

History means nothing and our gates suggest we deserve league 1 mediocrity.

pw362 · Mar 22, 2012

@richh87 said:
Sure I heard on SkySports News that they don't own the ground anymore.

Correct portsmouth council now own Fratton Park

rob9872 · Mar 22, 2012

kduffy said:
Of course. And twenty years ago our expectations would have been considerably higher than hull, blackpool, Swansea etc.

History means nothing and our gates suggest we deserve league 1 mediocrity.

Our gates have dipped by an average of 5,000 per game since SISU took over. Why do you think that is?

valiant15 · Mar 22, 2012

We'll probably get it with your beloved sisu eh duffy.

@richh87 · Mar 22, 2012

SISU have admitted that their game plan was to get us promoted and sell us at a profit. They gambled and lost.

The success of clubs these days is generally down to who owns them. All we need is an owner with money and ambition. We're not a small club. There are smaller in the Premier League - just with better owners.

We shouldn't beat ourselves up about not being financially self sufficient - most clubs aren't.

rob9872 · Mar 22, 2012

What killed the £30m was how it was invested. It was dripfed and with an overpaid playing staff eating it up in wages. We would all like a bottle of hindsight but if they ahd invested it in one go or looked at the ongoing debt they would be saddled with, then it could have been structured differently.

Grendel · Mar 22, 2012

rob9872 said:
Our gates have dipped by an average of 5,000 per game since SISU took over. Why do you think that is?

I think a lot of factors. Of course dissolusionement and lack of investment are factors. However, there has been decline since moving to the Ricoh. The new stadium hiked attendances which now are returning to Highfield Road levels of support - this you could argue is our natural fanbase. I would not anticipate a new owner will benefit from 20,000 plus crowds.

rob9872 · Mar 22, 2012

It demonstrated that with a successful team that potential was there. Its an entertainment product and clubs of our stature historically like Southampton and Norwich are enjoying far greater crowds, which if you consider in the past the Dell was an average lower than HR.

A new investor shouldn't now budget for 20k (or 22k as SISU did) but budget for a much lower figure and tell the manager that his transfer chest will consist of anything generated over that equilibrium.Then its up to the fans. We know that if we don't turn out, players will be sold, but if we get off our bums and support, the manager and team will have investment and we can snowball continued success.

Colonel Mustard · Mar 22, 2012

rob9872 said:
Our gates have dipped by an average of 5,000 per game since SISU took over. Why do you think that is?

Interesting question. I had to look up the stats - here are the last 10 years:

14812
14816
16047
21301
20342
19123
17407
17305
16309
14950

So what you see there is a rainbow shape. Interestingly, our attendance is settling back down to the original Highfield Road/initial Championship levels. If I had to add some commentary, I'd say that we got the inevitable new stadium bump, but long-term apathy settled in to leave the hardcore. I think the decline in attendance would have been inevitable given our financial circumstances, whether it was SISU or McGinnity at the helm.

Grendel · Mar 22, 2012

rob9872 said:
It demonstrated that with a successful team that potential was there. Its an entertainment product and clubs of our stature historically like Southampton and Norwich are enjoying far greater crowds, which if you consider in the cast will be boe of the Dell was an average lower than HR.

A new investor shouldn't now budget for 20k (or 22k as SISU did) but budget for a much lower figure and tell the manager that his transfer chest will consist of anything generated over that equilibrium.Then its up to the fans. We know that if we don't turn out, players will be sold, but if we get off our bums and support, the manager and team will have investment and we can snowball continued success.

Yes I agree however the culture is that supporters expect to see big signings and results before they are prepared to attend.

Grendel · Mar 22, 2012

valiant15 said:
We'll probably get it with your beloved sisu eh duffy.

Yes of course. I eat, drink and sleep SISU. Of course.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 22, 2012

kduffy said:
Of course. And twenty years ago our expectations would have been considerably higher than hull, blackpool, Swansea etc.

History means nothing and our gates suggest we deserve league 1 mediocrity.

Wigan have had lower crowds on several occasions this season-but one example of a club that would be nowhere without its benevolent owner.

Grendel · Mar 22, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Wigan have had lower crowds on several occasions this season-but one example of a club that would be nowhere without its benevolent owner.

Wigan are not really a football town so yes this is down to the charming Dave Whelan. A one off though. Gibson at Middlesborough is another I guess.

rob9872 · Mar 22, 2012

Jack Walker

rob9872 · Mar 22, 2012

Possibly Bill Kenwright too although of course Everton are a much bigger club

@richh87 · Mar 22, 2012

kduffy said:
Wigan are not really a football town so yes this is down to the charming Dave Whelan. A one off though. Gibson at Middlesborough is another I guess.

So two one-offs then.

Abramovich is another i'd argue - Chelsea aren't historically as well supported as the clubs around them, ie Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal.

There are examples all over the place. We have the potential to draw big crowds. 8th biggest City in England (I think), a one club City. We saw against Leeds last year that even a sniff of success and people come flooding back.

Our only restraint is our owners IMO.

Grendel · Mar 22, 2012

@richh87 said:
So two one-offs then.
We saw against Leeds last year that even a sniff of success and people come flooding back.

Our only restraint is our owners IMO.

Who were the owners then?

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 22, 2012

kduffy said:
Wigan are not really a football town so yes this is down to the charming Dave Whelan. A one off though. Gibson at Middlesborough is another I guess.

I would probably echo Rob's sentiments in adding Blackburn to the list-they've always struggled to get people through the gate at Ewood Park. I think the situation we have is such though that the fans are now essentially the only 'investors' the club has who will stay for the long haul. The ground is a millstone around the club's neck, and though bigger crowds won't make the problem go away, of course not, they will certainly contribute a not insignificant sum to the club coffers-OSB posted some good ballpark calculations last week on the scale of the potential income to be gained.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 22, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
Interesting question. I had to look up the stats - here are the last 10 years:

14812
14816
16047
21301
20342
19123
17407
17305
16309
14950

So what you see there is a rainbow shape. Interestingly, our attendance is settling back down to the original Highfield Road/initial Championship levels. If I had to add some commentary, I'd say that we got the inevitable new stadium bump, but long-term apathy settled in to leave the hardcore. I think the decline in attendance would have been inevitable given our financial circumstances, whether it was SISU or McGinnity at the helm.

I agree for the first couple of seasons the Ricoh was pretty full with people expecting the dawn of a new era at the Ricoh and roped in by the operation premiership malarky.
Even without SISU attendances would have decreased assuming we had no success in the time, there could be an argument made though that SISU have accelerated the decrease in attendances.

Colonel Mustard · Mar 23, 2012

CCFC said:
Even without SISU attendances would have decreased assuming we had no success in the time, there could be an argument made though that SISU have accelerated the decrease in attendances.

I think it's more likely that SISU sustained the attendances for longer. The McGinnity regime ran into the wall in 2007 - the club was minutes away from administration. In that scenario, we'd likely have seen the team reduced to a poorer squad than we have now, a ten-point deduction, inevitable relegation to L1, and thus a natural drop in attendance to the hardcore by 2008.

@richh87 · Mar 23, 2012

kduffy said:
Who were the owners then?

The fans came because we were enjoying success - and success requires investment. That's the point here.

All we need are decent owners.

BurbageSkyBlues · Mar 23, 2012

Bottom line is that we are trying to sell a product to customers. If the shelves are empty, or full of rubbish, the customers won't come in through the door.

You have to invest in your product to attract customers. Then your business gets noticed, attracts more attention and more customers.

At the moment, we need that catalyst to get going.......

SydneySkyBlue · Mar 23, 2012

Quite.

The only way to get bums on seats is success on the pitch. Something that SISU have failed to do and are no longer capable of producing - they won't even attempt to fund a relegation fight.

We need new owners if only to give us a fresh start.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 23, 2012

They entrusted Ranson to make their investment deliver a return-he failed, and with that money unpaid they've seen fit to put the club on life support to protect what remains of that investment. We can't spend what we ain't got, so change is imperative.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Mar 23, 2012

SISU are poor, poor owners. Despite recent group losses, they are unwilling - note, not incapable - of providing the investment needed to allow the business to find its natural level.

Boardroom comings and goings have been of alarming regularity, investment in all aspects of the playing squad within the bottom three of the league - which is exactly where we have ended up, their crack-down on any dissent a disgrace, liaison with fans who gave up shares for the greater-good lamentable, and our accounting delinquent

Covstu · Mar 23, 2012

@richh87 said:
So two one-offs then.

Abramovich is another i'd argue - Chelsea aren't historically as well supported as the clubs around them, ie Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal.

There are examples all over the place. We have the potential to draw big crowds. 8th biggest City in England (I think), a one club City. We saw against Leeds last year that even a sniff of success and people come flooding back.

Our only restraint is our owners IMO.

Al Feyed for Fulham also??

Ashdown · Mar 23, 2012

Indeed MMM, but there are posters on GMK who are still hailing them as our wonderful saviours. Its testament to our management team that we are still in with a small chance of survival under the circumstances. The truth is as a hedge fund the accounting misdemeanors indicate to me that they are hedging their bets as to continue to support the club depending on which League we shall be in next year and the financial ramifications that will bring................they could with a little foresight and minimal expenditure, have made sure we could still compete months ago.

Grendel · Mar 23, 2012

Covstu said:
Al Feyed for Fulham also??

I suppose if he was here the soc campaigners could have stood by the statue (which would of course not be of Jimmy hill) and shouted "beat it".

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 23, 2012

Or a Richard Keys statue and 'smash it'.

Grendel · Mar 23, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Or a Richard Keys statue and 'smash it'.

They certainly wouldn't be singing Thriller.

Sisu you are a disgrace... (15 Viewers)

New Member

New Member

Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Member

New Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency