SISU v Football League - in Court. (1 Viewer)

Voice_of_Reason · May 25, 2013

The Football League rules state quite clearly that Coventry City Football Club Limited has the right to play in the Football League. Football League rules are set in concrete.

The only way SISU can continue is to purchase CCFC Limited. SISU can only take action against the Football League rules AFTER a decision has been made should the decision not go in it's favour..

Should a Court decide that Football League rules are wrong, this has serious implications for all other 72 League Club.

Bye Bye SISU.. I can't see any Court ruling that Football League rules are wrong.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 25, 2013

This is where FL rules and Commercial Law clash this could have all sorts of implications

Voice_of_Reason · May 25, 2013

Exactly ! SISU must be worrying now ! (But Tim hasn't a clue, has he ?)

deanocity3 · May 25, 2013

Voice_of_Reason said:
The Football League rules state quite clearly that Coventry City Football Club Limited has the right to play in the Football League. Football League rules are set in concrete.

The only way SISU can continue is to purchase CCFC Limited. SISU can only take action against the Football League rules AFTER a decision has been made should the decision not go in it's favour..

Should a Court decide that Football League rules are wrong, this has serious implications for all other 72 League Club.

Bye Bye SISU.. I can't see any Court ruling that Football League rules are wrong.

It all depends on the judge
http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Timothy_S._Fisher

Sky_Blue_Ste · May 25, 2013

Surely the FL have already made they're decision on who CCFC Ltd are by deducting us 10 pts last season?

chiefdave · May 25, 2013

Why can't you see any Court ruling that Football League rules are wrong? If law clashes with FL rules the the law will take precedence. Just look at the Bosman ruling.

You also have to allow for some weird ruling, you never quite know what a judge is going to come up with. Also factor in that SISU can probably string this out for years and take it to European Court, the league won't want that.

deanocity3 · May 25, 2013

Sky_Blue_Ste said:
Surely the FL have already made they're decision on who CCFC Ltd are by deducting us 10 pts last season?

I think they have now realised that deduction of 10 points may have been an error now.but it's now too late

quinn1971 · May 25, 2013

chiefdave said:
Why can't you see any Court ruling that Football League rules are wrong? If law clashes with FL rules the the law will take precedence. Just look at the Bosmanve ruling.

You also have to allow for some weird ruling, you never quite know what a judge is going to come up with. Also factor in that SISU can probably string this out for years and take it to European Court, the league won't want that.

Think everyone is reading too much into what fisher says.fact is sisu want out they have for a long time.they spoke to hoffman a while ago about selling.dont forget hoffman/haskell have already agreed a deal about the ricoh with acl.theyve been planning this for two years they have some big name lawyers involved who are experts in football administration and they will have gone over every detail several times.it might take a while but sisu will be gone.

Voice_of_Reason · May 25, 2013

chiefdave said:
Why can't you see any Court ruling that Football League rules are wrong? If law clashes with FL rules the the law will take precedence. Just look at the Bosman ruling.

You also have to allow for some weird ruling, you never quite know what a judge is going to come up with. Also factor in that SISU can probably string this out for years and take it to European Court, the league won't want that.

This is my point -- any action that needs to be taken will be down to SISU to challenge Football League rules in Court should a decision NOT go in their favour. The other 72 League Clubs would be effected.

chiefdave · May 25, 2013

quinn1971 said:
Think everyone is reading too much into what fisher says.fact is sisu want out they have for a long time.they spoke to hoffman a while ago about selling.dont forget hoffman/haskell have already agreed a deal about the ricoh with acl.theyve been planning this for two years they have some big name lawyers involved who are experts in football administration and they will have gone over every detail several times.it might take a while but sisu will be gone.

I have no doubt SISU have a figure at which they will quite happily walk away and with more than one interested party there is of course the possibility of a bidding war and that figure being reached. However if SISU are forced out I can't see them going quietly. Even if they can't get their money back they strike me as people who will cause as much trouble as possible on the way out.

SkyBlueBlood · May 25, 2013

Voice_of_Reason said:
The Football League rules state quite clearly that Coventry City Football Club Limited has the right to play in the Football League. Football League rules are set in concrete.

The only way SISU can continue is to purchase CCFC Limited. SISU can only take action against the Football League rules AFTER a decision has been made should the decision not go in it's favour..

Should a Court decide that Football League rules are wrong, this has serious implications for all other 72 League Club.

Bye Bye SISU.. I can't see any Court ruling that Football League rules are wrong.

There is a legal precedent for this. The taxman has tried and tried again to get the courts to rule that the Football Creditors rule (A Football League rule) should not stand over the insolvency laws but every time the courts have ruled in favour of the Football League. It would be the same in this case, mind I would not be surprised if SISU thought they were more powerful than HMRC

3D Jase · May 25, 2013

Coventry Loyal Football Supports.

Today four Coventry businessmen are pleased to announce investment into an alternative new football club for Coventry.

Coventry United Football Club based at Westwood Heath is an exciting, passionate club with big future plans and high expectations. Work is already underway to recruit additional new football talent to bolster this progressing side.

The committee members have been loyal CCFC supporters for many years and collectively decided to start and support a new Coventry football team from a lower division without any complications, turmoil, uncertainty or distractions allowing us supports to enjoy the football games.

The new team will be based around new talent, club stability, supporters engagement and most importantly proud to be playing in Coventry.

The club is very humble and isn't embarrassed to be starting at the bottom of the Midland Combination League, it has the desire to get promoted year on year, so feel free to come and support CovUtd – its FREE to everyone, donations are always welcome but not compulsory.

Thanks for listening to: OUR Coventry, OUR Team

Paxman II · May 25, 2013

A little optimistic Quinn but perfectly feasible.

The Share may have sat with CCFC Ltd but the FL agreed player registrations and a host of other footballing requirements with Holdings and deducted 10 points on the basis Ltd and |Holdings were one of the same football club? That suggest to me that the beneficial right is still with the football club we know exist as Holdings. That will be the most likely legal argument and the FL would be on shaky ground. SISU new this early and quickly withdrew their appeal against a points deduction remember?

I still maintain Haskell and co must approach SISU and cut them a cheque....better for all in the long run. best be quick though because if SISU do indeed start the land acquisitions and spending on stadium projects etc they will then close the door on that option and sell when they have a new stadium, probably doubling the initial investment and then some therefore regaining most if not all previous losses.

Guess if Haskell and co are serious enough they will be doing this now.

quinn1971 · May 25, 2013

chiefdave said:
I have no doubt SISU have a figure at which they will quite happily walk away and with more than one interested party there is of course the possibility of a bidding war and that figure being reached. However if SISU are forced out I can't see them going quietly. Even if they can't get their money back they strike me as people who will cause as much trouble as possible on the way out.

No doubt they won't go quietly but they will go.do they really want to risk getting into the same situation at their new ground.sisu will be getting pressure of their creditors to get some if not all of their money back.haskells desperate to get the ricoh. Just watch what happens when the serious bids go in and the real moneys on the table.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 25, 2013

Will if these ba---rds win will wait till outcome. I will watch you even if they go when we are away. Good luck

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 25, 2013

Dont like the united call yourselves just Coventry be better

DaleM · May 25, 2013

Paxman II said:
A little optimistic Quinn but perfectly feasible.

The Share may have sat with CCFC Ltd but the FL agreed player registrations and a host of other footballing requirements with Holdings and deducted 10 points on the basis Ltd and |Holdings were one of the same football club? That suggest to me that the beneficial right is still with the football club we know exist as Holdings. That will be the most likely legal argument and the FL would be on shaky ground. SISU new this early and quickly withdrew their appeal against a points deduction remember?

I still maintain Haskell and co must approach SISU and cut them a cheque....better for all in the long run. best be quick though because if SISU do indeed start the land acquisitions and spending on stadium projects etc they will then close the door on that option and sell when they have a new stadium, probably doubling the initial investment and then some therefore regaining most if not all previous losses.

Guess if Haskell and co are serious enough they will be doing this now.

Lucky to get their money back IMO. Who would want to buy a conference club with 12000 cap for 40 mill +

quinn1971 · May 25, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Dont like the united call yourselves just Coventry be better

Yep..drop the utd. Coventry sporting club used to play up there.i used work there. Shame they folded.would have been interesting if they were still going.could have had coventry sporting club in a higher league than coventry city.

SkyblueBazza · May 25, 2013

Voice_of_Reason said:
The other 72 League Clubs would be effected.

How can you say they "would be effected (affected even?)"??? Not every club is set up like ours so all it would mean for some is "Okay...we'll make a note of that". Or am is missing some subtlety hidden point?

Paxman II · May 25, 2013

Dale I'm a businessman and I see things a little differently perhaps.
A stadium built for add on's in capacity has already been configured at MK Dons new stadium.
It's been quoted the initial capacity will be 15,000 - around our best home gates at the Ricoh? It would be a full house with atmosphere unlike the Ricoh.
A new stadium wholly owned would triple in value if we get promoted once or even twice.
All revenue would be ours including all concerts, shopping malls etc. The mortgage on the build would be less than the rent at the Ricoh? In fact lease revenue from the shops and other landsite builds along side the stadium would cover it's loan cost most likely. The rest is the clubs. Is it starting to make sense now.......

But again perhaps I'm missing something?

SkyblueBazza · May 25, 2013

SkyBlueBlood said:
"There is a legal precedent for this...It would be the same in this case"

New precedents can also be set

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 25, 2013

Paxman II said:
Dale I'm a businessman and I see things a little differently perhaps.
A stadium built for add on's in capacity has already been configured at MK Dons new stadium.
It's been quoted the initial capacity will be 15,000 - around our best home gates at the Ricoh? It would be a full house with atmosphere unlike the Ricoh.
A new stadium wholly owned would triple in value if we get promoted once or even twice.
All revenue would be ours including all concerts, shopping malls etc. the mortgage on the build would be less than the rent at the Ricoh?

But the again perhaps I'm missing something?

What concerts shopping malls etc ?

cloughie · May 25, 2013

SkyblueBazza said:
New precedents can also be set

And that would throw the whole FL rules into disarray

won't happen

Sky Blues · May 25, 2013

3D Jase said:
Coventry Loyal Football Supports.

Today four Coventry businessmen are pleased to announce investment into an alternative new football club for Coventry.

Coventry United Football Club based at Westwood Heath is an exciting, passionate club with big future plans and high expectations. Work is already underway to recruit additional new football talent to bolster this progressing side.

The committee members have been loyal CCFC supporters for many years and collectively decided to start and support a new Coventry football team from a lower division without any complications, turmoil, uncertainty or distractions allowing us supports to enjoy the football games.

The new team will be based around new talent, club stability, supporters engagement and most importantly proud to be playing in Coventry.

The club is very humble and isn't embarrassed to be starting at the bottom of the Midland Combination League, it has the desire to get promoted year on year, so feel free to come and support CovUtd – its FREE to everyone, donations are always welcome but not compulsory.

Thanks for listening to: OUR Coventry, OUR Team

Any relation to Coventry Cathedral United FC? https://www.facebook.com/pages/Coventry-Cathedral-United-FC/153268664686747

SkyblueBazza · May 25, 2013

cloughie said:
And that would throw the whole FL rules into disarray

won't happen

You mean you doubt it will happen. Just like many things are doubted...but happen.

chiefdave · May 25, 2013

cloughie said:
And that would throw the whole FL rules into disarray

won't happen

just because it would be an issue for FL rules doesn't mean it won't happen. Instead of something like this put it into an extreme situation, if the FL at their next meeting put in place a rule that bans all players from Germany do you think that would stand up when challenged in court just on the basis it's a FL rule?

DaleM · May 25, 2013

Paxman II said:
Dale I'm a businessman and I see things a little differently perhaps.
A stadium built for add on's in capacity has already been configured at MK Dons new stadium.
It's been quoted the initial capacity will be 15,000 - around our best home gates at the Ricoh? It would be a full house with atmosphere unlike the Ricoh.
A new stadium wholly owned would triple in value if we get promoted once or even twice.
All revenue would be ours including all concerts, shopping malls etc. the mortgage on the build would be less than the rent at the Ricoh?

But the again perhaps I'm missing something?

In the next 3 seasons with FFP we are not going to be able to invest in the team. If it is Walsall ground sharing then gates will probably be half max what we get now. In 3 years time , whether we be at Ansty, Holbrooks wherever concerts etc won't be held there . The Ricoh with its bigger capacity will take the gigs everytime. Sorry but 20 mill mortgage will be a lot more than the rent that has been offered. 20 million would pay the rent , that was offered , for 50 years. Sisu have been here since 2007 and only paid rent for 5 years so that is only 6 million . Do you really, truly think that we will get promoted ? I have followed City since I was 14. I am now 43 . We have only had 1 blip in all that time and actually won something . Everytime we get a decent player , who looks like he may become an asset to the team, he is sold without a second thought for the fans. It is a downward spiral and to be honest I fear we will be playing the likes of Nuneaton in a few years.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 25, 2013

Nuneaton aren't being relegated are they

DaleM · May 25, 2013

http://www.bbc.co.uk/homes/property/mortgagecalculator.shtml

20 million over 25 years at 2.5% equals 90k+ a month. It really doesn't make any sense to me.

wingy · May 25, 2013

Paxman II said:
Dale I'm a businessman and I see things a little differently perhaps.
A stadium built for add on's in capacity has already been configured at MK Dons new stadium.
It's been quoted the initial capacity will be 15,000 - around our best home gates at the Ricoh? It would be a full house with atmosphere unlike the Ricoh.
A new stadium wholly owned would triple in value if we get promoted once or even twice.
All revenue would be ours including all concerts, shopping malls etc. The mortgage on the build would be less than the rent at the Ricoh? In fact lease revenue from the shops and other landsite builds along side the stadium would cover it's loan cost most likely. The rest is the clubs. Is it starting to make sense now.......

But again perhaps I'm missing something?

Try the 8000 quoted on the radio today Paxman.................its all about Viability .

SkyblueBazza · May 25, 2013

wingy said:
Try the 8000 quoted on the radio today Paxman.................its all about Viability .

Going only by reading the earlier posts (so I stand to be corrected) referring to his interview - that 8000 appears to be the anticipated attendance figure at a venue outside the City...whilst the new stadium is being built & NOT the planned capacity of the new stadium.

Noggin · May 25, 2013

SkyblueBazza said:
Going only by reading the earlier posts (so I stand to be corrected) referring to his interview - that 8000 appears to be the anticipated attendance figure at a venue outside the City...whilst the new stadium is being built & NOT the planned capacity of the new stadium.

Tim Fisher said 6k-7k at the venue outside the city if we are doing very well and very significantly lower if we aren't.

Linnell said 8k capacity at the new stadium but modular and they would add capacity as required, we don't know if Linnell got the wrong end of the stick somehow though or if he has been told this. Fisher didnt mention the new stadium capacity on the radio.

SkyblueBazza · May 25, 2013

Noggin said:
Tim Fisher said 6k-7k at the venue outside the city if we are doing very well and very significantly lower if we aren't.

Linnell said 8k capacity at the new stadium but modular and they would add capacity as required, we don't know if Linnell got the wrong end of the stick somehow though or if he has been told this. Fisher didnt mention the new stadium capacity on the radio.

Cool, thanks for that - I tried the link earlier but need the laptop. iPhone doesn't work with BBC links :-(

SISU v Football League - in Court. (1 Viewer)

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