SISU the future (3 Viewers)

dongonzalos · Mar 24, 2013

Does anyone have any idea what their plan is?

The council always had reservations about doing business with SISU. However I believe if SISU produced a viable sustainable business plan for the future of the club.
A business plan to develop the area and invested in the team. They would do business with them.

However that door now seems to be firmly shut.

ACL were trying to do business with SISU. The Higgs charity were very keen to get out.

I get the distinct impression SISU only had chats with ACL
To get a complete insight of their business structure before planning to destroy them.

ACL said the trust now has completely gone and they cannot see themselves doing business with SISU.

We seem to think their previous plan was starve ACL of funds until they go under then take control if them.

If now ACL and the council will no longer do business with at all?

What are SISU going to do?

Regis87 · Mar 24, 2013

Fuck off hopefully

SydneySkyBlue · Mar 24, 2013

There is no future with SISU. Nobody in the city trusts them any more - an important factor in business negotiations.

I think they know this and they're simply clutching at straws now.

italiahorse · Mar 24, 2013

dongonzalos said:
Does anyone have any idea what their plan is?

The council always had reservations about doing business with SISU. However I believe if SISU produced a viable sustainable business plan for the future of the club.
A business plan to develop the area and invested in the team. They would do business with them.

However that door now seems to be firmly shut.

ACL were trying to do business with SISU. The Higgs charity were very keen to get out.

I get the distinct impression SISU only had chats with ACL
To get a complete insight of their business structure before planning to destroy them.

ACL said the trust now has completely gone and they cannot see themselves doing business with SISU.

We seem to think their previous plan was starve ACL of funds until they go under then take control if them.

If now ACL and the council will no longer do business with at all?

What are SISU going to do?

Obviously for what ever reason SISU have upset ACL. We don't know the exact details.
We have been told that the council would exercise a veto to prevent SISU from purchasing the stadium.

The only other information we have is that SISU are, for what ever reason, trying to keep hold of CCFC.

So you can deduce that SISU holding onto CCFC but not ever getting hold of the stadium is just a downward spiral.

Us fans can just sit back helplessly and watch.

Sick Boy · Mar 24, 2013

dongonzalos said:
The council always had reservations about doing business with SISU.

I thought they were the council's preferred buyer of the club?

wozey · Mar 24, 2013

What they will do is move out of the RA and hope ACL come running offering a cheap deal that involves part ownership of the RA and then sell up

torchomatic · Mar 24, 2013

They were. No one's doubting that SISU fucked up royally, but ACL are risking a lot.

Sick Boy said:
I thought they were the council's preferred buyer of the club?

BrisbaneBronco · Mar 24, 2013

Well they appear to be on the back foot at present.

Do they cut and run and lose 50m
Do they liquidate CCFC Holdings to be spiteful, but still lose 50m
Do they look to build a Southampton type ground and hang around for 3 more years in the hope that they will be able to sell the club with ground ownership for around 100m. Problem here is that they would not get planning permission off the council to do this. Also doubt the Football League would allow them to play outside the City. This is probably something which SISU are talking to the FL about, along with where we can play our remaining 3 home games.
Only option in Coventry is the Butts Arena which is actually owned by Coventry Rugby Club. They could buy this and agree that the Rugby Club continued to play there also. Problem is that capacity is not big enough and to expand they would have to get council approval(no chance).
SISU could in fact have a case against the Council and ACL for restriction of trade, on the basis that they will not sell them the stadium or allow them to build a new one within the city boundaries, or allow them to keep the additional income generated on match days.

CJparker · Mar 24, 2013

italiahorse said:
Obviously for what ever reason SISU have upset ACL. We don't know the exact details.

Try the fact that they have withheld the contractually-due rent for a year in a brazen attempt to force ACL into liquidation and pick up the ground on the cheap. I think that might just have annoyed ACL...

grego_gee · Mar 24, 2013

wozey said:
What they will do is move out of the RA and hope ACL come running offering a cheap deal that involves part ownership of the RA and then sell up

Didn't someone just get sacked for tweeting "up the RA"? Who was it?
maybe he meant Richo Arena!........ He missed a good defense there!
Bring him back!

imp:

Wrenstreetcarpark · Mar 24, 2013

BrisbaneBronco said:
Well they appear to be on the back foot at present.

Do they cut and run and lose 50m
Do they liquidate CCFC Holdings to be spiteful, but still lose 50m
Do they look to build a Southampton type ground and hang around for 3 more years in the hope that they will be able to sell the club with ground ownership for around 100m. Problem here is that they would not get planning permission off the council to do this. Also doubt the Football League would allow them to play outside the City. This is probably something which SISU are talking to the FL about, along with where we can play our remaining 3 home games.
Only option in Coventry is the Butts Arena which is actually owned by Coventry Rugby Club. They could buy this and agree that the Rugby Club continued to play there also. Problem is that capacity is not big enough and to expand they would have to get council approval(no chance).
SISU could in fact have a case against the Council and ACL for restriction of trade, on the basis that they will not sell them the stadium or allow them to build a new one within the city boundaries, or allow them to keep the additional income generated on match days.

Who do you think owns the freehold of the Butts?

The Prefect · Mar 24, 2013

italiahorse said:
The only other information we have is that SISU are, for what ever reason, trying to keep hold of CCFC.

I heard a while back that SISU had done a debt for equity swap and wiped the club's debt to them clean...

IF this is true (and we can't see the accounts to verify this) the reason they might have done this was to protect their investment i.e. their auditors may have insisted that there was no chance of their debt being repaid therefore they couldn't show it a full value elsewhere in their assets (i.e. in the accounts of other hedge funds). When the debt is swapped for equity they can go at full value. A £1 debt buys a £1 share for instance.

Put simply - their auditors might have asked them to write off some of their loans because the club would never repay them. That means other funds that might have invested the loans would have up to £30m to write off (assuming 75% write off of £40m loaned)... If they do an equity swap the investment could remain at full value.

SISU are fighting so hard to keep these investments at full value for their stakeholders as loans may have come from numerous of their funds. If they have to write them off they could be in big trouble.

This mess could end up costing Joy Seppala her job and in extreme circumstances cause their funds huge problems if people want to withdraw.

My guess is that they're fighting so they don't have to write off their £40m investment as they can't afford to.

skyblue025 · Mar 24, 2013

Yes but can you see a way they can get their investment back? They are going to have to keep paying more and more in to what is nothing more than a mid table Div 1 team. A dwindling support which makes the break even figure harder and harder to achieve. With FFP coming in the squad is going to be smaller and of a lower standard.

I am struggling to see a way out they can get anywhere near a 1/4 of their investment back. There is no way CCC/ACl are going to let them get the stadium. They will deny them planning permission for a new stadium, If SISU plan on building a new stadium "Up the road somewhere" who is going to fund it? They talk of 30 mil for a new stadium, what sort of stadium are you going to be able to build for 30 mil? Not much of one.

wozey · Mar 24, 2013

skyblue025 said:
Yes but can you see a way they can get their investment back? They are going to have to keep paying more and more in to what is nothing more than a mid table Div 1 team. A dwindling support which makes the break even figure harder and harder to achieve. With FFP coming in the squad is going to be smaller and of a lower standard.<br />
<br />
I am struggling to see a way out they can get anywhere near a 1/4 of their investment back. There is no way CCC/ACl are going to let them get the stadium. They will deny them planning permission for a new stadium, If SISU plan on building a new stadium "Up the road somewhere" who is going to fund it? They talk of 30 mil for a new stadium, what sort of stadium are you going to be able to build for 30 mil? Not much of one.

CCC could not reject planning on the grounds they don't like sisu it can only be opposed if a valid reason exists and or local people in that area objected to the plans

dongonzalos · Mar 24, 2013

Sick Boy said:
I thought they were the council's preferred buyer of the club?

Sorry I mean since SISU opened negotiations with ACL

grego_gee · Mar 24, 2013

wozey said:
CCC could not reject planning on the grounds they don't like sisu it can only be opposed if a valid reason exists and or local people in that area objected to the plans

They could in fact be difficult.... but it would be of no consequence because all planning issues can be appealed to the secretary of state.

imp:

wozey · Mar 24, 2013

grego_gee said:
They could in fact be difficult.... but it would be of no consequence because all planning issues can be appealed to the secretary of state.<br />
<br />
<img src="images/smilies/hat.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Pimp" smilieid="48" class="inlineimg" />

Completely correct if local planning failed so its not an issue and people really need to start understanding this mate

Baginton · Mar 24, 2013

what has trust got to do with it, surely the bottom line is all about $$$

dongonzalos · Mar 24, 2013

grego_gee said:
They could in fact be difficult.... but it would be of no consequence because all planning issues can be appealed to the secretary of state.

imp:

I would imagine there would be opposition from the locals for where ever a suggested site was.

The council would just be more sympathetic to those concerns than normal I would imagine.

dongonzalos · Mar 24, 2013

wozey said:
What they will do is move out of the RA and hope ACL come running offering a cheap deal that involves part ownership of the RA and then sell up

I think ACL are past that point

dongonzalos · Mar 24, 2013

I just really can't see a plan other than rent somewhere else and hope ACL come back cap in hand
However I really don't think ACL will.

So what do SISU do then just keep renting off someone else and lose money?

Jack Griffin · Mar 24, 2013

If CCFC move out of Coventry they have to agree a timetable to return to the City/Conurbation with the Football League (it is in their rules), what happens if they renegade on that lord only knows.

dongonzalos · Mar 24, 2013

I hope the approach the yank and say give us 10 million we will go. Or we stick around and drag it out as long as possible.

skyblue025 · Mar 25, 2013

grego_gee said:
They could in fact be difficult.... but it would be of no consequence because all planning issues can be appealed to the secretary of state.

imp:

Yes and how long would that take? The SISU 3 year plan to get the stadium opened would then be a 5 year plan. They can't afford to take the club elsewhere for 3 years never mind 5 or longer.

leicesterskyblue · Mar 26, 2013

skyblue025 said:
Yes and how long would that take? The SISU 3 year plan to get the stadium opened would then be a 5 year plan. They can't afford to take the club elsewhere for 3 years never mind 5 or longer.

Time wouldn't be the issue really as the appeal would be heard within 6 months. The Planning inspectorate would look at the planning practicalities of a 2nd stadium of that kind of size within the city and would point to the RICOH and say sort it out rather than build something which isn't needed. Finding the land to build such a stadium would be tricky to start with, and any such land would need to include a massive element of housing, 20% affordable at least, plus all the infrastructure etc etc. You couldn't just pick a bit of green belt near Leamington or rugby and stick it there like playing Sim City!!!

If it got called in by the SoS they could consider massive strategic development...but would need CCC to support it as the nearest major urban conurbation.

Flying Fokker · Mar 26, 2013

SoS?.......

Spencer · Mar 26, 2013

leicesterskyblue said:
Time wouldn't be the issue really as the appeal would be heard within 6 months. The Planning inspectorate would look at the planning practicalities of a 2nd stadium of that kind of size within the city and would point to the RICOH and say sort it out rather than build something which isn't needed. Finding the land to build such a stadium would be tricky to start with, and any such land would need to include a massive element of housing, 20% affordable at least, plus all the infrastructure etc etc. You couldn't just pick a bit of green belt near Leamington or rugby and stick it there like playing Sim City!!!

If it got called in by the SoS they could consider massive strategic development...but would need CCC to support it as the nearest major urban conurbation.

I'm afraid I can't agree with all of that. The planners wouldn't care less that there is already a stadium in the city and the government would welcome any private investment that might serve to stimulate the economy (especially the construction industry which is seen as the route cause of the, almost, triple dip recession).

coundonskyblue · Mar 26, 2013

Am I the only one who thinks its crazy to even consider building a new ground because of an argument over the price of a pie?

chiefdave · Mar 26, 2013

skyblue025 said:
Yes and how long would that take? The SISU 3 year plan to get the stadium opened would then be a 5 year plan. They can't afford to take the club elsewhere for 3 years never mind 5 or longer.

I think at some point public opinion would start to swing away from ACL / council. If the club had a viable plan to return to the city and the council were seen to be blocking it out of spite surely people would turn against them. They need people to vote for them so once that happened you'd probably see them change their stance.

Spencer · Mar 26, 2013

coundonskyblue said:
Am I the only one who thinks its crazy to even consider building a new ground because of an argument over the price of a pie?

No, I guess most people do.

rupert_bear · Mar 26, 2013

What SISU's grand future plan is a massive mystery. So they win or even draw this court case so it's status quo for them. They won't get the Ricoh, there are no revenue stream other than dwindling gates, no players to sell for decent fees, players to recruit for next year yet an embargo is in place. All the running costs of the team,wages matchday costs, tax, etc,etc has to be met by the parent company. In my opinion they are stuffed and if i was them i would cut my losses and run, if you do please please take those two cretins Fisher and Waggott with you. If you need help here's Central Taxis phone number 02476333333

mattylad · Mar 26, 2013

Now we have to await the administrator report which could take at least another month and then we hope that the whole crap is sorted in time for us to start next season in this league and not reforming in the EVO whatever its called league.

leicesterskyblue · Mar 26, 2013

Spencer said:
I'm afraid I can't agree with all of that. The planners wouldn't care less that there is already a stadium in the city and the government would welcome any private investment that might serve to stimulate the economy (especially the construction industry which is seen as the route cause of the, almost, triple dip recession).

Worked in town planning 2003-2009...not a huge amount has changed since then....

leicesterskyblue · Mar 26, 2013

...Also lots of talk about public opinion swinging against ACL....cant see it. its 50/50 amongst City fans, though hopefully more can see through SISU than that.

Say there's 315,000 residents in Cov, and say 50,000 have been to a game at some point in the last 5 years, thats still 265,000 residents who couldn't give a shit about the club or football so would actually be backing the Council to get money out of a company that "owes it over a million in rent"...thats a lot of pot holes filled in!

Its easy to slate ACL about them not being about the best interests of CCFC.....thats not whats in their job description.. their job is to run the RICOH..which as its owned by the Council (very loosely speaking) should be run in the best interest in all 315,000 residents, not 10,000 fans who go regularly or 50,000 who'd go to Wembley for a cup final.

Grendel · Mar 26, 2013

leicesterskyblue said:
Its easy to slate ACL about them not being about the best interests of CCFC.....thats not whats in their job description.. their job is to run the RICOH..which as its owned by the Council (very loosely speaking) should be run in the best interest in all 315,000 residents, not 10,000 fans who go regularly or 50,000 who'd go to Wembley for a cup final.

Why are rules different in other cities where stadiums are council owned?

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