SISU tenacity (1 Viewer)

spider_ricoh · Jun 24, 2014

Anyone else been surprised by the extent to which SISU have hung on in there??

As a paid-up member of the anti-SISU brigade, I must say that part of my "no to Sixfields" stance and general support for punitive / non-engagement measures (from everyone from the FA to the FL, ACL, CCC, Higgs to the SBT, KCIC, CCLSC and plenty of other acronyms) on the bais that SISU would at some point get fed up, sell up and walk away.

Except this hasn't happened. Thought it would be bye-bye when we got relegated. Then, when that didn't happen, when ACL got re-financed, I though SISU were snookered and would slink away, tail between legs. But no - judicial review time. And if the new stadium is a smokescreen, they are putting a fair amount of effort into it.

I supported the points deduction, the refusal of the CVA, the refusal to hand over the Ricoh - all on the basis that it would "force SISU out" - this hasn't happened but I would still support those measures.

Much of the money put in by SISU investors has been written off so presumably SISU are playing hardball with ACL to get the Ricoh and sell club + ground as a package and get at least some return - this is why they will reject KCIC's rent offer, though no doubt they will work out excuses that will at least sounds plausible to sympathetic ears.

Samo · Jun 24, 2014

It's personal.

dongonzalos · Jun 24, 2014

It's not personal its business. This I'd their only option. KCIC will be rejected as ACL earn........

Samo · Jun 24, 2014

dongonzalos said:
It's not personal its business. This I'd their only option. KCIC will be rejected as ACL earn........

Oh its business? They must be raking it in then!

Danceswithhorses · Jun 24, 2014

Samo said:
It's personal.

I agree-i think Joy feels personally slighted after being outmanoeuvred and outwitted by CCC's mortgage deal..hence the JR
It can't be business, as the case for playing in Northampton is frankly ludicrous.
Anyway, it's not her money she's gambling with, so she probably couldn't give a toss-just be glad that your investments are not in the hands of a hedge fund owner who chases her losses.

Grendel · Jun 24, 2014

Danceswithhorses said:
I agree-i think Joy feels personally slighted after being outmanoeuvred and outwitted by CCC's mortgage deal..hence the JR
It can't be business, as the case for playing in Northampton is frankly ludicrous.
Anyway, it's not her money she's gambling with, so she probably couldn't give a toss-just be glad that your investments are not in the hands of a hedge fund owner who chases her losses.

Almost certainly she owns the funds so it is her money.

Kingokings204 · Jun 25, 2014

Couldn't agree more its not business. How can any business lose 90% fan base and move 35 miles and all of the above and this be called business.

If its a tactic to get the ricoh its either a wrong/bad tactic or it simply wont work. If it was my investors money as an investor I would be pooing myself as my money is lost.

mrtrench · Jun 25, 2014

You shouldn't be surprised. From Wikipedia:

"Sisu is a Finnish word generally meaning determination, bravery, and resilience."

Jack Griffin · Jun 25, 2014

Grendel said:
Almost certainly she owns the funds so it is her money.

Don't give a f**k whose money it is. just give me back my club.

diggerdaley · Jun 25, 2014

sisu are like a compulsive gambler who keeps losing till they win or go bust.

Danceswithhorses · Jun 25, 2014

Grendel said:
Almost certainly she owns the funds so it is her money.

That's a bold statement.
Care to share your proof of this approaching 100% 'fact' Grendel ?

SkyBlueSid · Jun 25, 2014

mrtrench said:
You shouldn't be surprised. From Wikipedia:

"Sisu is a Finnish word generally meaning determination, bravery, and resilience."

SISU is also a brand of fizzy drink made in the Faroe Islands. I saw the bottling plant when I was in Klaksvik last year. Maybe this is the power behind the throne.

https://www.facebook.com/bjor.fo

Gint11 · Jun 25, 2014

diggerdaley said:
sisu are like a compulsive gambler who keeps losing till they win or go bust.

Only they probably are no where near being bust. They are a hedge fund, they will still be rich.

Covstu · Jun 25, 2014

To be fair when the deals broke down, i was actually surprised when we actually moved to Northampton i was expecting this as an empty threat but they did it, i thought the cases to sue charities and claim money back were false promises, they did it. Stadium is bullshit and we all know what they are after but there could be an ace up their sleeve.

They would sadly kill the club rather than admit defeat i think.

Gary.j · Jun 25, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
Anyone else been surprised by the extent to which SISU have hung on in there??

As a paid-up member of the anti-SISU brigade, I must say that part of my "no to Sixfields" stance and general support for punitive / non-engagement measures (from everyone from the FA to the FL, ACL, CCC, Higgs to the SBT, KCIC, CCLSC and plenty of other acronyms) on the bais that SISU would at some point get fed up, sell up and walk away.

Except this hasn't happened. Thought it would be bye-bye when we got relegated. Then, when that didn't happen, when ACL got re-financed, I though SISU were snookered and would slink away, tail between legs. But no - judicial review time. And if the new stadium is a smokescreen, they are putting a fair amount of effort into it.

I supported the points deduction, the refusal of the CVA, the refusal to hand over the Ricoh - all on the basis that it would "force SISU out" - this hasn't happened but I would still support those measures.

Much of the money put in by SISU investors has been written off so presumably SISU are playing hardball with ACL to get the Ricoh and sell club + ground as a package and get at least some return - this is why they will reject KCIC's rent offer, though no doubt they will work out excuses that will at least sounds plausible to sympathetic ears.

No, no surprise at all. I've always thought that both sisu's' and any NOPM campaign would be attritional. I wouldn't be surprised if they stayed in Northampton for the full 5 years, unless of course the JR has an impact.

Jack Griffin · Jun 25, 2014

Gary.j said:
No, no surprise at all. I've always thought that both sisu's' and any NOPM campaign would be attritional. I wouldn't be surprised if they stayed in Northampton for the full 5 years, unless of course the JR has an impact.

That is what I've always expected.. as long as it can be spun out with the FL.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Jun 25, 2014

Eyes on the prize.

Relegation? Irrelevant minutiae. Fans boycott? Irrelevant minutiae. Bad press? Irrelevant minutiae.

They want the Ricoh. They haven't as yet got it. So they stay. Everything else is noise.

Eyes on the prize. No blinking......

mrtrench · Jun 25, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Eyes on the prize.

Relegation? Irrelevant minutiae. Fans boycott? Irrelevant minutiae. Bad press? Irrelevant minutiae.

They want the Ricoh. They haven't as yet got it. So they stay. Everything else is noise.

Eyes on the prize. No blinking......

Absolutely. "All the rest is propaganda"

ccfc1234 · Jun 26, 2014

Sisu is much bigger than CCFC, if we were the only business they controlled or trying to make profit for their investors from, they would be indeed in dire straits. They are rich enough to ride this out and with the Council also not being short of funds to prop up ACL due to us the tax payer, it could be a long messy and traumatic road. My biggest fear is that IF SISU dont get their own way they could kick the club on their way out the door out of spite to make sure when they do get back to the Ricoh they are a footballing non entity. I just hope for the sake of all the loyal fans and the City SISU and all involved parties can move from their extreme positions to one of willing negotiation.

Rusty Trombone · Jun 26, 2014

ccfc1234 said:
Sisu is much bigger than CCFC, if we were the only business they controlled or trying to make profit for their investors from, they would be indeed in dire straits. They are rich enough to ride this out and with the Council also not being short of funds to prop up ACL due to us the tax payer, it could be a long messy and traumatic road. My biggest fear is that IF SISU dont get their own way they could kick the club on their way out the door out of spite to make sure when they do get back to the Ricoh they are a footballing non entity. I just hope for the sake of all the loyal fans and the City SISU and all involved parties can move from their extreme positions to one of willing negotiation.

How much money have SISU got? What other businesses are they controlling?

Nick · Jun 26, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
How much money have SISU got? What other businesses are they controlling?

Would be very interesting to see what else they "owned".

Rusty Trombone · Jun 26, 2014

Nick said:
Would be very interesting to see what else they "owned".

They had, maybe still have, some of Netia Spolka Akcyjna in Poland, apparantly 'The Company and its subsidiaries (together, the “Netia Group”) is the largest alternative fixed-line telecommunication operator in Poland. The Netia Group provides various voice telephony, data transmission, television, mobile voice and broadband services'. Maybe these services could be used to help the KCIC conversation flow.

Nick · Jun 26, 2014

Maybe they could increase the Polish fanbase by showing games there?

Rusty Trombone · Jun 26, 2014

Nick said:
Maybe they could increase the Polish fanbase by showing games there?

Not one zloty more is in full operation I'm afraid.

ccfc1234 · Jun 26, 2014

I could not tell you with any accuracy what they own as they are a very secretive company. However if you Google the CEO's name she has been involved in some high profile distressed company acquisitions in the past. They also have a executive team that CCFC alone would not sustain. I would estimate (total guess) their wealth to be approx 300m most of which will be tied up in companies they are turning round (aka fattening up) for a profitable sale.

Rusty Trombone · Jun 26, 2014

ccfc1234 said:
I could not tell you with any accuracy what they own as they are a very secretive company. However if you Google the CEO's name she has been involved in some high profile distressed company acquisitions in the past. They also have a executive team that CCFC alone would not sustain. I would estimate (total guess) their wealth to be approx 300m most of which will be tied up in companies they are turning round (aka fattening up) for a profitable sale.

Net worth of £800k according to their 2013 accounts. Turnover of £1.7m, Grendel achieves that turnover with 4 phone calls.

Their investors may have money, but they will run out of patience soon (hopefully).

ccfcway · Jun 26, 2014

Nick said:
Would be very interesting to see what else they "owned".

ask them Nick, surely they will answer ?

ccfcway · Jun 26, 2014

ccfc1234 said:
I could not tell you with any accuracy what they own as they are a very secretive company. However if you Google the CEO's name she has been involved in some high profile distressed company acquisitions in the past. They also have a executive team that CCFC alone would not sustain. I would estimate (total guess) their wealth to be approx 300m most of which will be tied up in companies they are turning round (aka fattening up) for a profitable sale.

they have put £70m of that into CCFC

RPHunt · Jun 26, 2014

ccfc1234 said:
I could not tell you with any accuracy what they own as they are a very secretive company. However if you Google the CEO's name she has been involved in some high profile distressed company acquisitions in the past. They also have a executive team that CCFC alone would not sustain. I would estimate (total guess) their wealth to be approx 300m most of which will be tied up in companies they are turning round (aka fattening up) for a profitable sale.

Their accounts tell a very different story - don't confuse Assets Under Management with SISU's own worth. Their income for the last couple of years suggests AUM of less than £100M..

As for their executive team, SISU paid out a little more than £0.5M on staff costs for about 20 people. Just what kind of 'executive' do you imagine they can hire for £25k p.a. in the West End of London? There will be kitchen staff in hotels nearby that wouldn't work for that!

wingy · Jun 26, 2014

Tena City ....Is that how much they've increased our value by ..........Chrystalized ........Isn't that what Tena Lady does for seepage ......Enough to make you weep.

ccfc1234 · Jun 26, 2014

RPHunt said:
Their accounts tell a very different story - don't confuse Assets Under Management with SISU's own worth. Their income for the last couple of years suggests AUM of less than £100M..

As for their executive team, SISU paid out a little more than £0.5M on staff costs for about 20 people. Just what kind of 'executive' do you imagine they can hire for £25k p.a. in the West End of London? There will be kitchen staff in hotels nearby that wouldn't work for that!

On reflection, I would totally agree their net worth would be a far lower figure than the assets they have under management. Am not sure if they have the ability however to leverage income from other companies in their portfolio towards under preforming assets? With regards to their books, I could not think of a better sector of hiding revenue streams and business outgoings than a hedge fund as they could pay people from one of their business when in reality they are totally focussed on a different company altogether. They do this for many reasons the main being to reduce tax across their portfolio.

Rusty Trombone · Jun 26, 2014

ccfc1234 said:
On reflection, I would totally agree their net worth would be a far lower figure than the assets they have under management. Am not sure if they have the ability however to leverage income from other companies in their portfolio towards under preforming assets? With regards to their books, I could not think of a better sector of hiding revenue streams and business outgoings than a hedge fund as they could pay people from one of their business when in reality they are totally focussed on a different company altogether. They do this for many reasons the main being to reduce tax across their portfolio.

Not that great at hiding away from tax (from 2011)........The owner of Coventry City registered a loss before tax of £272,000, a slight improvement on last year's figure of £376,000. The figures were not helped by a £161,000 tax bill Sisu had to pay after an HMRC inquiry into previous tax years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ity-owner-Sisu-Capital-posts-272000-loss.html

ccfc1234 · Jun 26, 2014

To know how good or bad they are at hiding tax we would need to see the books from their other companies too. They may have been using CCFC to bury bad news so to speak. Maybe to protect the books and inflate the balance sheet of another company that was closer to being sold?

Danceswithhorses · Jun 27, 2014

Grendel said:
Almost certainly she owns the funds so it is her money.

As you seem to have forgotten to reply to my polite request for you to back up your statement with proof, i'll ask it again..
Care to share your proof of this approaching 100% 'fact' Grendel ?

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