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Sisu pr (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Old Warwickshire lad
  • Start date Apr 13, 2015
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #141
Shouldn't this thread have been "CCFC PR"?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #142
Indeed. Weren't MMM, Noggin, Jack and the other Waspies telling us how great it was for the taxpayer will all those lovely payments?

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Oh I expect their to be outrage from some on here who always look out for the taxpayer...looks like wasps are screwing then again
Click to expand...
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #143
Grendel said:
Why would it? Naming right sponsorship is over the term of the contract not up front.

Also companies wouldn't use any cash to pay loans unless it had huge cash reserves.
Click to expand...

Maybe they get the alternative funding using any naming rights money as security for the funding. In effect the sponsors pay the new loan off. But didn't Tim say he wouldn't have taken on the same deal as Wasps because of having to pay back the loan? If you are right about alternative funding and stadium sponsorship being paid over a term, then Tim has no idea.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #144
torchomatic said:
Indeed. Weren't MMM, Noggin, Jack and the other Waspies telling us how great it was for the taxpayer will all those lovely payments?
Click to expand...

Shouldn't this thread have been "CCFC PR"?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #145
torchomatic said:
Indeed. Weren't MMM, Noggin, Jack and the other Waspies telling us how great it was for the taxpayer will all those lovely payments?
Click to expand...

Even better to have the money now and it probably sinks the JR once and for all. If the council are owed no money then what could the JR achieve? They sold an empty "soulless" "edifice" or "white elephant" - as described on here - to the only people who came forward with a business plan and are now getting their money back. Pity that the money to pay it off won't be coming from SISU as a new investor in a consortium with Wasps.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #146
Grendel said:
It will be an alternate funding source with lower interest and / or a longer payment period to reduce annual payments.
Click to expand...

But you don't actually know do you. Come on admit that this story took you by surprise too.
 
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #147
Why should there be,no risk to the taxpayer loan paid off job done.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #148
Steve, people are talking about wasps....
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #149
CCFC said:
I'll ask again as I did last time, why don't you go around pulling up others when they state false 'facts' and present opinions as facts? Funny how you only pop up when Wasps are mentioned? I called you out on it last time you popped up to defend them, and you had no response then either.
Click to expand...

MMM has connections with Wasps without doubt, possibly a business interest within the venture. I agree with you as to his obvious posting pattern on the subject and its the only time he has ever been obnoxious with me on here, when I dared to suggest that they would be bad for Cov rugby !
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #150
And the club. Surely, cutting financial ties with CCC will give them a free reign to whack our rent up? Still, as long as CCC and Wasps do OK then I don't care.

martcov said:
Even better to have the money now and it probably sinks the JR once and for all.
Click to expand...
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #151
I'm not the one who took it off track.

skybluetony176 said:
Shouldn't this thread have been "CCFC PR"?
Click to expand...
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #152
There are obviously Wasps fans or whoever who joined after they got hold of the Ricoh to basically just take the piss and cause a bit of conflict. I bet they didn't expect some of the natives to join them.

Ashdown said:
MMM has connections with Wasps without doubt, possibly a business interest within the venture. I agree with you as to his obvious posting pattern on the subject and its the only time he has ever been obnoxious with me on here, when I dared to suggest that they would be bad for Cov rugby !
Click to expand...
 

lewys33

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #153
I hate sisu more than most, and even helped Michael with KCIC duties now and again. I would do it all again in a heartbeat.

Having said that I couldn't give a fuck whether wasps paid off the loan yesterday, today, or in 50 years. What happened was wrong. Plain and simple. The council have screwed us over to spite Sisu. Anyone using this story to help their anti-sisu spin is moronic, and it just shows that you care more about hating sisu than the future of this club.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #154
lewys33 said:
I hate sisu more than most, and even helped Michael with KCIC duties now and again. I would do it all again in a heartbeat.

Having said that I couldn't give a fuck whether wasps paid off the loan yesterday, today, or in 50 years. What happened was wrong. Plain and simple. The council have screwed us over to spite Sisu. Anyone using this story to help their anti-sisu spin is moronic, and it just shows that you care more about hating sisu than the future of this club.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree, The idiotic hedge fund pushed the council over the edge and when the council hit back CCFC were caught in the crossfire and thousands of fans were left disillusioned !
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #155
I've no doubt some of the biggegst supports of the franchise (despite supposedly being against that kind of thing) have some kind of dealings or financial interests in Wasps being here, which is fair enough I guess. Can't be true for them all though.

But yeah, there are a few who would still rather see the club sink as long as SISU went with them.

Ashdown said:
Yes I agree, The idiotic hedge fund pushed the council over the edge and when the council hit back CCFC were caught in the crossfire and thousands of fans were left disillusioned !
Click to expand...
 
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #156
Just a question have any of yo had a pm from me in last few minutes think I've sent them instead of posting.
 
R

rightumpty

New Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #157
I think you should be grateful they weren't charged full price.

Seriously though, it's another example of the crap we are expected to put up with.

I say "GET THEM OUT"
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #158
Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Just a question have any of yo had a pm from me in last few minutes think I've sent them instead of posting.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am just getting the talc out to send a picture in reply. This leather is a nightmare to get on.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #159
rightumpty said:
I say "GET THEM OUT"
Click to expand...

I once got in trouble for shouting that in the street Women don't like it.
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #160
Ashdown said:
MMM has connections with Wasps without doubt, possibly a business interest within the venture.
Click to expand...

He is mates with James Haskell. I think if he has a buisness venture it should be a pie shop, as Haskell looks like he has been eating lots of them, and so MMM should be making a fortune.
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #161
lewys33 said:
I hate sisu more than most, and even helped Michael with KCIC duties now and again. I would do it all again in a heartbeat.

Having said that I couldn't give a fuck whether wasps paid off the loan yesterday, today, or in 50 years. What happened was wrong. Plain and simple. The council have screwed us over to spite Sisu. Anyone using this story to help their anti-sisu spin is moronic, and it just shows that you care more about hating sisu than the future of this club.
Click to expand...

Post of the year mate. Spot on.
 
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #162
Nick said:
Yes, I am just getting the talc out to send a picture in reply. This leather is a nightmare to get on.
Click to expand...
Not that one
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #163
martcov said:
Maybe they get the alternative funding using any naming rights money as security for the funding. In effect the sponsors pay the new loan off. But didn't Tim say he wouldn't have taken on the same deal as Wasps because of having to pay back the loan? If you are right about alternative funding and stadium sponsorship being paid over a term, then Tim has no idea.
Click to expand...

Interesting theory. So the loan would pay for itself and the initial cost of buying ACL with a 250 year lease probably cost less than JR when you take into account SISU's legal bills, CCC's legal bills and lost revenue from the disastrous Northampton move.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #164
torchomatic said:
And the club. Surely, cutting financial ties with CCC will give them a free reign to whack our rent up? Still, as long as CCC and Wasps do OK then I don't care.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that you don't care. I do. If SISU aren't involved in some form ( e.g. Buying in ), then it is game set and match to Wasps. It shows where we could have been. It is not Wasps fault that we are not there, they only came in late and from outside. We were in pole position......
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #165
Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Well I would imagine that will be the end of that court case then.
Click to expand...

As we were often told with JR1, the case was about a moment in time, not whatever happened afterwards.

No reason why JR2, this time it's personal would be any different.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #166
Deleted member 5849 said:
As we were often told with JR1, the case was about a moment in time, not whatever happened afterwards.

No reason why JR2, this time it's personal would be any different.
Click to expand...

We were also told that it was about a "remedy" if there had been wrongdoing. E.g. Loan would have to be repaid. Will be soon anyway ( apparently ).
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #167
martcov said:
We were also told that it was about a "remedy" if there had been wrongdoing. E.g. Loan would have to be repaid. Will be soon anyway ( apparently ).
Click to expand...

It would also give the opportunity to submit claims for loss of earnings, damages etc.
 
D

DaleM

New Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #168
martcov said:
Sorry to hear that you don't care. I do. If SISU aren't involved in some form ( e.g. Buying in ), then it is game set and match to Wasps. It shows where we could have been. It is not Wasps fault that we are not there, they only came in late and from outside. We were in pole position......
Click to expand...

We haven't been in "pole position" since sisu started fucking about to get it on the cheap

Sent from my GT-I8160 using Tapatalk 2
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #169
Deleted member 5849 said:
As we were often told with JR1, the case was about a moment in time, not whatever happened afterwards.

No reason why JR2, this time it's personal would be any different.
Click to expand...

I thought it was JR2, J hardeR?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #170
Grendel said:
It would also give the opportunity to submit claims for loss of earnings, damages etc.
Click to expand...

Theoretically. Didn't work before when the stadium was empty. The judge said it was reasonable for CCC to expect that there would be new tenents/ buyers within the remaining 42 years of the lease. I would think events have proved the judge right and we have not heard of any significant new smoking guns from that time.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #171
INDEBTED rugby club Wasps want to raise up to £30million including in loans from ordinary fans - partly to pay back a taxpayer loan from Coventry City Council, the Observer understands.
Our council sources say councillors have been briefed by senior council officers on Wasps' latest proposals to raise loans from a mixture of institutional investors, and fans - through a 'retail bond' scheme.
The 'retail bond' scheme would invite ordinary people, fans and possibly local companies to invest money as an "I owe you", with the expectation it would be returned by Wasps at some point in future.
It follows unconfirmed speculation for months that Wasps have been trying to raise similar monies from traditional lenders in the finance markets, partly to enable them to re-finance the loan and pay off the council in full.
Hotel Chocolate is among companies to have issued a 'retail bond' scheme. As a return on punters' investment, they issued free chocolate as a type of interest payment.
It is understood a third part of Wasps' plan is to raise money from the naming rights in the Ricoh Arena from a sponsor, who would pay potentially millions of pounds for the stadium to be re-named using their company name.
There is speculation that Jaguar Land Rover could be interested in the naming rights, which it is understood are due within the next two years.
Council sources say income from the naming rights could help pay off the £13.4million loan owed to the council since a secret deal in October last year. That deal saw indebted London Wasps Holdings Limited buy the Ricoh company Arena Coventry Limited on a massive 250-year lease for £5.5million - plus the loan - from previous ACL joint owners, the council and Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
Council sources say it is hoped the council loan could be paid back in full within months - rather than the planned 20 years - when Wasps intend to issue a prospectus for the retail bond scheme.
The prospectus would claim business has significantly increased since their Ricoh move. Wasps maintain their turnover is increasing - albeit from a low base - since their switch from Adams Park in High Wycombe. Their Ricoh attendances have been bolstered by free, cheap and 'buy one, get one free' ticket offers.
It is not known if Wasps might seek to borrow to pay off the council loan against the future income they expect from the naming rights next year.
We revealed the latest 2013/4 accounts for London Wasps Holdings Limited - owners of stadium operating company Arena Coventry Limited - show £22million debt, including loans which have been borrowed against future rugby Premiership income.
The last ACL accounts, for 2013/4, recorded £400,000 losses. The Coventry Observer has exposed inaccurate public claims by council leader Ann Lucas about ACL's finances. We have also highlighted how the council's Labour leaders had repeatedly stated they would only expose city taxpayers to risk from loans in viable and sustainable companies.
News of the possibility of the council loan being paid back in full comes three weeks before council and general elections in which Labour insiders fear some political fall-out from the secret deal, which both Labour and Conservative councillors agreed in private.
While Coventry City fans are divided over the entire saga, many on social media have expressed fury with the council for selling the Sky Blues' Ricoh home - which always depended on Sky Blues' income to be viable - to an out-of-town rugby club.
Coventry City's future is uncertain. Its current owners say the club cannot continue as tenants of Wasps at the Ricoh and want to build a new stadium to maximise commercial income. That would see the club playing nearby but outside their traditional domicile home city.
Council sources also say the 'retail scheme' could enable ordinary punters to place their bonds in ISAs to enable them to get tax breaks.
Sky Blues' owners Sisu have an appeal outstanding against their failed attempt at last year's judical review to claim the original council loan to ACL in January 2013 was an unlawful use of taxpayers' money.
Council sources claim if the loan is paid off it would bolster the council's ongoing argument that the loan was made at a commercial rate, and was not 'state aid'. The council still owns the Ricoh freehold.
Twenty-five high-profile Coventry City fans and professionals including academics, business people, lawyers, accountants and writers have called for a wide-ranging independent review into the Wasps deal, false council claims, use of taxpayers' money and other aspects of council conduct.
A response is awaited from communities secretary Eric Pickles, now held up until after the election. Councillors have said the council's independent auditor will scrutinise the deal later this year as part of an annual inspection of council accounts - which opponents say would be too limited.


Read more: Indebted Wasps may seek fans' loans and pay back council taxpayers | Coventry Observer
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #172
torchomatic said:
Wasps, for example? What about comparable L1 clubs? I'm not disagreeing they should be cheap but what do other clubs charge?
Click to expand...

Not disagreeing with the point, but other clubs are not our competition and what they do is as relevant as asking what New York Yankees do.

Our competition is family entertainment in the local area.
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #173
RFC said:
They also give away 75% of their tickets, good PR but not so good when you've got to pay a debt of £14 million + interest over the next 20 years? LOL
Click to expand...

Whilst I'll concede that they might have done that for the first match at the Ricoh do you have anything to prove that they're still doing that? Or is this the same as when we were in Northampton and Tim was accused of giving them away and there was no evidence of this (to my knowledge) found.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #174
That article is hilarious.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 14, 2015
  • #175
James Smith said:
Whilst I'll concede that they might have done that for the first match at the Ricoh do you have anything to prove that they're still doing that? Or is this the same as when we were in Northampton and Tim was accused of giving them away and there was no evidence of this (to my knowledge) found.
Click to expand...

Well, given they have publicly declared a 50% revenue increase and crowds are 400% up its believable isn't it?

Other than the last game tickets have been available from many sources as well as the BOGOF offers. Free tickets to sports clubs, schools and businesses have been common place.
 
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