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Sisu ownership equals more debt (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter MFenton85
  • Start date Jun 15, 2013
Forums New posts
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MFenton85

New Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #1
If Otium gets the approval from the FL on monday, does anyone else think that our current 60+ million debt will rise even more? The funds for the initial bid has to come from somewhere, either funds from the sisu group or an additional loan. Otium (Sisu) will want their money back at some point. It may go un-noticed at first, but at the next period for filling accounts, we could see a big increase.
 

ccfc_Tom

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #2
New stadium to pay for as well
 
S

Steve.B50

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #3
New stadium then they will rent it back to us.
 
S

skybluericoh

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #4
Steve.B50 said:
New stadium then they will rent it back to us.
Click to expand...

Maybe they could build one with a casino, boxes that convert to bedrooms so that they can have an onsite hotel, get planning permission for a railway station to comply with the green lobby, even have some sort of exhibition hall, nah never work
 
T

Tonylinc

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #5
Steve.B50 said:
New stadium then they will rent it back to us.
Click to expand...
Yes exactly; and what will the rent be? Higher than that being charge by ACL I'll wager.
 
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MFenton85

New Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #6
Otium was setup purely to generate capitol to CCFC, it has no other means of income from what I can see. It came close to being dissolved last month due to inactivity. I wonder how much Appletons been paid to approve them? What means of support do they have behind them? It doesnt add up.
 
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #7
MFenton85 said:
I wonder how much Appletons been paid to approve them?
Click to expand...

His salary as administrator.

One of the losing bidders remarked on Appleton's professionalism during the whole process, and accepted its legality.
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #8
MFenton85 said:
If Otium gets the approval from the FL on monday, does anyone else think that our current 60+ million debt will rise even more? The funds for the initial bid has to come from somewhere, either funds from the sisu group or an additional loan. Otium (Sisu) will want their money back at some point. It may go un-noticed at first, but at the next period for filling accounts, we could see a big increase.
Click to expand...

in theory the 60 million should be wiped out
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #9
ccfc92 said:
in theory the 60 million should be wiped out
Click to expand...

Not only will the debt just move across to otium but it will have been a great exercise for sisu because they will be able load holdings also with extra debt. just look at all the extra that will be added for legal eagles.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #10
I really don't know why you all believe that SISU are genuinely intending of moving Coventry to a new stadium.

I thought that you couldn't believe a word that came out of Tim Fisher's mouth?
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #11
So the Sisu group will be charging more fees for handling and interest on the mostly artificial debt they have created !!!
the likes of NW and Grendel will overlook these millions that the club will be strangled with and carry on bleating about the acl rent wich will look like chicken feed in comparison !!!!
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #12
sky blue john said:
Not only will the debt just move across to otium but it will have been a great exercise for sisu because they will be able load holdings also with extra debt. just look at all the extra that will be added for legal eagles.
Click to expand...

But what debt exactly? They took over with 30 mill debt. They invested nothing. Then stripped ccfc of all assets. Any player sold was worth 3 or 4 in. We are now break even. So they are owed nothing.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #13
ccfc92 said:
But what debt exactly? They took over with 30 mill debt. They invested nothing. Then stripped ccfc of all assets. Any player sold was worth 3 or 4 in. We are now break even. So they are owed nothing.
Click to expand...

Are you really that simple?

I don't think SISU 'invested' as in injected capital for a sustainable return for the club in the long term, however, you can't argue against the fact that they have supported a club that has spent more than its earned since they took over. Where did the money come from if not from them?
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #14
They have created extra debt by borrowing money from arvo against ryton and against season tickets every year. Now arvo will be charging us interest as well as sisu charging us arrangement fees for setting up these loans.
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #15
It also doesn't matter to sisu how big the debt is bigger the better because another one of their company's will be claiming interest on it !!
 
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MFenton85

New Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #16
exactly. Why do you think the Otium bid was significantly higher than the rest. Higher costs mean more interest.
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #17
MFenton85 said:
exactly. Why do you think the Otium bid was significantly higher than the rest. Higher costs mean more interest.
Click to expand...

Because they could offer the full amount of the debt. all they have done is moved the debt from that was owed to arvo and holdings across to otium. they are all the same company !!!
No money physically will have changed hands !!
 
D

DaleM

New Member
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #18
fernandopartridge said:
Are you really that simple?

I don't think SISU 'invested' as in injected capital for a sustainable return for the club in the long term, however, you can't argue against the fact that they have supported a club that has spent more than its earned since they took over. Where did the money come from if not from them?
Click to expand...

What will it take for you to see how low this lot have reduced CCFC to. Conference football maybe ? If all the money that they reckon has been put in has , then we would be playing Man U and the likes week in , week out. It's all an illusion IMO. Sisu are using CCFC to get rid of losses in other arms of the business.
 
Last edited: Jun 16, 2013
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 15, 2013
  • #19
DaleM said:
TBF you NW and the rest are complete and utter fuckwits.
Click to expand...

I hope you mean some other poster with those initials.
 
D

DaleM

New Member
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #20
Deleted member 5849 said:
I hope you mean some other poster with those initials.
Click to expand...

Sorry i assumed you were a Sisu rent boy :facepalm:
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #21
DaleM said:
Sorry i assumed you were a Sisu rent boy :facepalm:
Click to expand...

You would assume wrong.

If you want to call me a fuckwit on a thread I haven't even posted in then this is a new low.

Even for here.
 

Sisued

New Member
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #22
'However, the bid from Otium Entertainment Group Limited was substantially more than any of the other three bids received and was the bid which gave the greatest return to the unsecured, non-connected creditors of CCFC Limited by a considerable margin'

Absoloutely no mention of what happens to the debt owed to the connected companies so im assuming that gets swallowed into the new company?
The debts still there and it will be a hell of a lot larger over the next 3 years. In fact you could pretty much guarantee that whatever they 'bid' for the company is now an additional part of the debt
 
G

georgehudson

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #23
if you are prepared to swallow this edict then that is your choice,
the owners loyalty is to their investors,
& NOT to CCFC fans,
perhaps it might be an idea, if you've got a pension plan, to ask your provider as to which company they are investing in
 
S

SkyBlueBlood

Member
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #24
The debt will be the fictitious £70m quoted by SISU plus all legal fees for this admin debacle and all legal fees for pretending to buy a new stadium.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #25
Septic and Fisher are a better double act than Seigfried and Roy......The £70m debt is here...now it's gone...it's over here...now it's gone.....it's over here but is now £120m...now it's gone... it's over here!!!!
In essence, the debt will always be there, only varying sizes to suit SISU's mood on any particular day.
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #26
:claping hands::claping hands::claping hands:Exactly perfectly explained
Sky Blue Kid said:
Septic and Fisher are a better double act than Seigfried and Roy......The £70m debt is here...now it's gone...it's over here...now it's gone.....it's over here but is now £120m...now it's gone... it's over here!!!!
In essence, the debt will always be there, only varying sizes to suit SISU's mood on any particular day.
Click to expand...
 

mattylad

Member
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #27
MFenton85 said:
If Otium gets the approval from the FL on monday, does anyone else think that our current 60+ million debt will rise even more? The funds for the initial bid has to come from somewhere, either funds from the sisu group or an additional loan. Otium (Sisu) will want their money back at some point. It may go un-noticed at first, but at the next period for filling accounts, we could see a big increase.
Click to expand...
no doubt in my mind that every single penny will still be payable
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #28
Think in terms of the debt (aside from that owed to ACL, Higgs Charity) you need to think about the Group situation.

Optium is part of the SBS&L group. It is owned by SBS&L plus ARVO

If CCFC Ltd owes other group members there is a liability on CCFC Ltd accounts. However there is an equal asset sitting on the balance sheet of another group company. The whole thing contras out and can be transferred around the group pretty much how the owners want.

The "investment" from SISU and ARVO that will show in the group accounts will be something like this

amount owed 31/05/11
ARVO £2m
SBS&L £29m

plus
increase in ARVO debt £8.25m (ARVO owed 10.25m am guessing that is not paid off, I suspect any money from ARVO was actually channelled through Otium to CCFC H then in to CCFC Ltd in the first place)
amounts put in to finance the group since 01/06/11 - say losses have been £8m (of which ARVO increase covers £6m capital excluding interest)

plus
what is paid to the non connected creditors of CCFC Ltd say £1m ?

that would be a total put in by SISU and ARVO of £40m .................. and in order to sort out the admin is just the cash necessary to pay off ACL/The Charity, £1m

The football club will be in CCFC H who at 31/05/11 owed other group members £47m (that will have increased in the last 2 years by probably £8m) and will still have a charge over its assets in favour of ARVO £10m. It will also include old debts, as part of that figure,pre SISU that have not been discounted

Its all accountancy smoke and mirrors but one thing is certain our football club will still be in huge debt.
 
Last edited: Jun 16, 2013

deanocity3

New Member
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #29
they won the bid because they had the highest bid..
yet do they have that amount,i doubt it.
I could have bid £100m,did they have to prove they had the cash.
 

BrisbaneBronco

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #30
deanocity3 said:
they won the bid because they had the highest bid..
yet do they have that amount,i doubt it.
I could have bid £100m,did they have to prove they had the cash.
Click to expand...

Guess they would only have to show proof of funds of say 1m to cover ACL debt in full.
The rest was a debt to themselves
 
C

CarpyCov84

New Member
  • Jun 16, 2013
  • #31
They won the bid due to a weak administrator and out bidding anyone else by miles due to owing themselves the money it's a utter disgrace if this is allowed to go ahead from the F.A...
 
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