Sisu have been a total business failure (4 Viewers)

jaytskyblue · Aug 18, 2013

A business is judged on outcomes.. Primarily:

Revenue and growth
Profitability
Strengthening of product or service and assets
Clear business vision and strategy
With others such as positive customer and stakeholder relationships.

Sisu have failed totally on all these business measures.

So to anyone, name me one positive business outcome Sisu have achieved at CCFC?

Diehard Si · Aug 18, 2013

I think even a 5 year old with severe learning difficulties could tell you that SISU have been a total business failure.

One positive outcome at the time was saving us from admin/liquidation 6 years ago... wind the clock forward though and we'd have probably have been better going under then and re-building up.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Aug 18, 2013

Amen- (well it is Sunday?)

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) · Aug 18, 2013

I suppose it depends on your point of view, some on here say that CCFC are only a vehicle for SISU to clear debt through from their other companies, how this is done, I don't know, but if this is the case, some might say that they have been a success - if you consider it from running a football club, then yes they have not done very well.

skybluepete1987 · Aug 18, 2013

But it's obviously ACL's fault, a ruthless council and charity backed organisation seeking to bring the club to its knees by asking for money they're contractually entitled to.

jesus-wept · Aug 18, 2013

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) said:
I suppose it depends on your point of view, some on here say that CCFC are only a vehicle for SISU to clear debt through from their other companies

And you have to ask the question are Northampton Town going to replace us, I believe SISU's time is up here and it is only a matter of time when they vacate. It could answer a puzzling question as to why has David Cardoza been so helpful to sisu. Dumping debt is common place in American companies and to me it is clear that is what has happened here. I also think it is why sisu wanted that CVA signed and sealed quickly.

CJ_covblaze · Aug 18, 2013

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) said:
I suppose it depends on your point of view, some on here say that CCFC are only a vehicle for SISU to clear debt through from their other companies, how this is done, I don't know, but if this is the case, some might say that they have been a success - if you consider it from running a football club, then yes they have not done very well.

Well football is the type of business where you can lose a stupid amount of money without anyone batting an eyelid. What about the other businesses SISU have taken on since 08? From what I can see there has been 7 others. All liquidated at strange times. One after a SISU related company injected 20m into it the days running up to it's closure.

Could be debt dumping. Could be a way of explaining where some of Wynacre's money has gone. Money that disapeared mysteriously.

CCFC PimpRail · Aug 18, 2013

You can argue that any investment in a club will only loose you money, unless you catch it on an improving business cycle and sell on the up, which was the original business plan but failed when ccfc weren't promoted.

There is plenty of money in football, but its usually in the wrong place- Stoke City might be nice to their fans with the season ticket & travel deals, but ask them that next spring when theyre fighting relegation and should have invested better.

The only solution I can see is a cap on players wages (as per the NFL), and possibly a set price season ticket for all, the argument being if you love your team, it doesnt matter if its the quality of Chelsea, or Coventry...

jaytskyblue · Aug 18, 2013

So can anyone help us with identifying anything positive about Sisu's CCFC business performance over 5 years?
Grendel, Stupot, Fernando, Paxman, Lord, etc. Anything positive to say?

The Prefect · Aug 18, 2013

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) said:
I suppose it depends on your point of view, some on here say that CCFC are only a vehicle for SISU to clear debt through from their other companies, how this is done, I don't know, but if this is the case, some might say that they have been a success - if you consider it from running a football club, then yes they have not done very well.

They'd be wrong.

The reason the club struggles so much is that SISU have to keep the debt in Coventry City at full value in their other funds. A fund lends £10m to the Coventry City group it sits as an asset in their books and a liability to Coventry City. The club is worthless to buyers but to SISU it's worth £70m. SISU have £70m of accumulated debt sitting in the Coventry City group that can't be written off due to the effect on their other funds. With the move to Northampton things will only get worse unless they invest capital (i.e. money for shares) and not loans. The plan was to distress ACL to buy them on the cheap but it has backfired. They will now just sit at Sixfields hoping to avoid relegation for as long as the Football League can be fooled into thinking there is a stadium on the way. It will be at least 5 years and probably longer if SISU can get away with it.

NOPM gets in the way as it will keep the club in permanent transfer embargos (or special measures) and reduce gate revenues by more than 80%. SISU are gambling on there being only one more relegation in the next five years or so until they really need to build a new stadium. Their business plan will have a 'sensitivity' for relegation. League 2 gates won't be much lower than now so it won't matter too much. Relegation out of League 2 would be a different story altogether.

Reading between the lines I think CCC would sell all of ACL to the right buyers of the club and give a long lease to secure tenure. They won't do that for SISU who have proven themselves untrustworthy - given they knew the score when they bought the club.

jaytskyblue · Aug 18, 2013

So the most 'positive' we have so far is Sisu may have used CCFC successfully so far as some kind of 'debt pit'... Great lol
Any other positive Sisu CCFC business outcomes over 5 years?

Bill Glazier · Aug 18, 2013

Not sure if you can judge Sisu like other businesses as they aren't interested in building a business - that's not what hedge funds do. Their only aim is to get assets on the cheap and sell them on a profit. They need to keep ccfc alive, but no more than that, as a hostage that will be returned only when they get the asset they want - the Ricoh - at the price they want.

Ian Coventry · Aug 18, 2013

To be fair how many business' are making money out of 3rd division football clubs , how many business' are making money in the whole of the football league. Isn't it true that the only successful clubs have a super rich benefactor behind them, added to the fact that SISU have had 1 hand tied behind there back by ACL/CCC is it any wonder they haven't been successful in terms of a business.
Forget about the politics "PUSB"

Flying Fokker · Aug 18, 2013

CCFC PimpRail said:
You can argue that any investment in a club will only loose you money, unless you catch it on an improving business cycle and sell on the up, which was the original business plan but failed when ccfc weren't promoted.

There is plenty of money in football, but its usually in the wrong place- Stoke City might be nice to their fans with the season ticket & travel deals, but ask them that next spring when theyre fighting relegation and should have invested better.

The only solution I can see is a cap on players wages (as per the NFL), and possibly a set price season ticket for all, the argument being if you love your team, it doesnt matter if its the quality of Chelsea, or Coventry...

The days gone by. In the late 70's Chelsea were playing in front of 8500 fans just the same as City. Little did I realise City would be playing in fromtof 2000 in Northampton.

Flying Fokker · Aug 18, 2013

Ian Coventry said:
To be fair how many business' are making money out of 3rd division football clubs , how many business' are making money in the whole of the football league. Isn't it true that the only successful clubs have a super rich benefactor behind them, added to the fact that SISU have had 1 hand tied behind there back by ACL/CCC is it any wonder they haven't been successful in terms of a business.
Forget about the politics "PUSB"

I have a theory that the following has happened and that there is a way out of this:

Money would not have gone in to the playing side of things. SISU got it wrong. They were creaming off all revenues and building up debt instead. High 'managment' fees, player sales and subsequent lack of income due to losing 8000 few paying fans over their tenure at the Ricoh (And another 7000 this year alone) has compounded their stupidity. They would have been in the Premiership if they had invested early. Timmy Fisher came along 2/3 in to this cycle expecting to make a big buck in future. Too late. I think he is the main man. Not Sepella.

He is the one who now has most to lose because I think he has taken the losses of other 'investors' such as Igwe, Deliu and Brody. Possibly even Ranson as well.

I also think the only way out of this is for Fisher to be part of any plan for the future. Not because I want hime there but because he needs to be there for himself. If he has all of this debt, he will want to recoup it as soon as possible, and dare I say it, share in the success.

If I was a prospective purchaser I would be working on a strategy to keep the enemy close so that I could keep an eye on him/ her. If Fisher has any bit to play in future he needs to be totally up front. Take the flack of a massive U turn and prove that he has the club's interests at heart.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Aug 18, 2013

Flying Fokker said:
Money would not have gone in to the playing side of things. SISU got it wrong. They were creaming off all revenues and building up debt instead. High 'managment' fees, player sales and subsequent lack of income due to 8000 few paying fans has compounded their stupidity. They would have been in the Premiership if they had invested early. Timmy Fisher came along 2/3 in to this cycle expecting to make a big buck in future. Too late. I think he is the main man. Not Sepella.

He is the one who now has most to lose because I think he has taken the losses of other 'investors' such as Igwe, Deliu and Brody. Possibly even Ranson as well.

Hence the suggestion that he has 10 to 12 million reasons

SonOfSnoz · Aug 18, 2013

You know this for fact?

CJ_covblaze · Aug 18, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Hence the suggestion that he has 10 to 12 million reasons

Correct. Or at least his investors have.

jaytskyblue · Aug 18, 2013

Let's be clear Sisu are a debt centred hedge fund. Such hedge funds specialise in buying companies in trouble and selling at a higher price based on them quickly improving business performance and selling the new potential.

As stated above they have failed at every business level. There are numerous examples of small clubs doing much much better based on v.limited resource.

So anyone want to defend their business record over 5 years?
If not why would anyone suggest letting such a business acquire a key Coventry asset in the Ricoh?

SonOfSnoz · Aug 18, 2013

But they must have written off loads of debt through Cov City?
Who can say for sure, they won't leave the club better off & sell on, just might take bit longer, football is a unique industry compared to the usual ones hedgef funds work in!

shmmeee · Aug 18, 2013

Ian Coventry said:
To be fair how many business' are making money out of 3rd division football clubs ,

About 36% IIRC.

What's in that hand that Sisu have tied behind their back? Is it the money to buy into the Ricoh at the agreed price 6 years ago and avoid a large amount of the losses they've accrued?

tuousis · Aug 18, 2013

Flying Fokker said:
I have a theory that the following has happened and that there is a way out of this:

Money would not have gone in to the playing side of things. SISU got it wrong. They were creaming off all revenues and building up debt instead. High 'managment' fees, player sales and subsequent lack of income due to losing 8000 few paying fans over their tenure at the Ricoh (And another 7000 this year alone) has compounded their stupidity. They would have been in the Premiership if they had invested early. Timmy Fisher came along 2/3 in to this cycle expecting to make a big buck in future. Too late. I think he is the main man. Not Sepella.

He is the one who now has most to lose because I think he has taken the losses of other 'investors' such as Igwe, Deliu and Brody. Possibly even Ranson as well.

I also think the only way out of this is for Fisher to be part of any plan for the future. Not because I want hime there but because he needs to be there for himself. If he has all of this debt, he will want to recoup it as soon as possible, and dare I say it, share in the success.

If I was a prospective purchaser I would be working on a strategy to keep the enemy close so that I could keep an eye on him/ her. If Fisher has any bit to play in future he needs to be totally up front. Take the flack of a massive U turn and prove that he has the club's interests at heart.

On the subject of Fisher, he is intelligent (1sts in Engineering at Imperial College,London).Maybe he should have brushed up on his Maths.A junior would have told him that Northampton was a loser.

Grendel · Aug 18, 2013

shmmeee said:
About 36% IIRC.

What's in that hand that Sisu have tied behind their back? Is it the money to buy into the Ricoh at the agreed price 6 years ago and avoid a large amount of the losses they've accrued?

You remind me of one of those old records that get annoyingly stuck and say the same thing over and over again.

The past is not relevant and will not resolve the issues of today.

Spionkop · Aug 18, 2013

Bill Glazier (what a goalie), think out of the thousands of posts you've got the exact expression, it sums up exactly our predicament - Sisu are holding CCFC hostage. Spot on. It's a hostage situation.

SonOfSnoz · Aug 18, 2013

After Acl held them hostage firet!

fernandopartridge · Aug 18, 2013

The ignored part is the 10k or so loyal supporters who fucked off since 2006 to then sit and snipe NOPM.

CCFC PimpRail · Aug 18, 2013

SonOfSnoz said:
After Acl held them hostage firet!

Curse that ACL, the club should have stayed at Highfield Road, renting it for £1,000,000 p.a. SISU would have forced them to go bust, brought HR, sold the land, and built their new 10k seater stadium...

Bill Glazier · Aug 18, 2013

Spionkop said:
Bill Glazier (what a goalie), think out of the thousands of posts you've got the exact expression, it sums up exactly our predicament - Sisu are holding CCFC hostage. Spot on. It's a hostage situation.

Yep, I've heard Joe Elliot has had Sky Blue Sam's ear in the post.

jaytskyblue · Aug 18, 2013

So in conclusion

No one can identify anything positive with respect to any aspect of Sisu's business performance over 5 years in charge of CCFC.

So no one wants Sisu to stay owners of CCFC right?

ajsccfc · Aug 18, 2013

Are you waiting for these mythical Sisu fans hinted at so often here to appear? They really don't exist.

Sky Blue Spud · Aug 18, 2013

Article in todays Sunday Express:

Coventry owner climbs into black

SISU Capital, the hedge fund that owns struggling Coventry City Football Club, has climbed back into the black with a £96,367 profit according to its latest set of accounts.

By: Geoff Ho
Published: Sun, August 18, 2013

0Comments

Sisu-acquired-Coventry-City-in-2007 Sisu acquired Coventry City in 2007

The results for the 12 months to March 31 show that Sisu, which is under pressure from Coventry fans to sell the club, made a profit due to cost cutting. Last year it recorded a £18,665 loss.

The accounts show that turnover fell 19.9 per cent to £1.7 million, due to investors pulling their money out if its funds. The withdrawals led to a fall in the amount of fees it could charge for managing people’s money.

Sisu acquired Coventry City in 2007. This rescued the club from administration following relegation from the Premier League in 2001 with debts of £60 million.

Privately owned Sisu Capital invests in European investment markets with a focus on the UK, and is based in London’s Mayfair.

However, Sisu underestimated the high costs of chasing promotion.

The once high-flying club has consistently struggled on the pitch and last year it was relegated to English football’s third tier. It has also been evicted from its stadium.

Privately owned Sisu Capital invests in European investment markets with a focus on the UK, and is based in London’s Mayfair.

Baginton · Aug 18, 2013

jaytskyblue said:
A business is judged on outcomes.. Primarily:

Revenue and growth
Profitability
Strengthening of product or service and assets
Clear business vision and strategy
With others such as positive customer and stakeholder relationships.

Sisu have failed totally on all these business measures.

So to anyone, name me one positive business outcome Sisu have achieved at CCFC?

maybe that's why they wanted to buy the Ricoh, as promised a few years ago, to get access to full revenue streams

has anyone in recent CCFC history been remotely succuessful ?

Paxman II · Aug 19, 2013

I think they have done remarkably well since recognising that initially they did very poorly.
How they have gone about trying to achieve more income streams for the football club (God forbid!) has been very aggressive and failed to date.
I'd rather they left but for now I recognise we need to find a way to secure an exit strategy for them as the only real answer to this night mare. My football club is alive and hijacked but there are many ways to resolve that if only those who can would talk to each other.

jaytskyblue · Aug 19, 2013

This thread is talking about Sisu's CCFC business performance over 5 years here. Just CCFC, not anyone else's, and no ifs or buts they have been in charge for 5'years.

Paxman I thought you were the man who loved FACT based responses.
So where on earth do you get 'I think they have done remarkably well' from!!?

That is ridiculous.

Sisued · Aug 19, 2013

Assuming the objective was a return to the prem then after 5 seasons you would have to say that things arent going quite as well as theyd hoped.

Sisu have been a total business failure (4 Viewers)

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