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SISU/ARVO appeal turned down (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Captain Dart
  • Start date May 26, 2016
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Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #176
chiefdave said:
The 17 points is for the Ricoh isn't it? Not the academy.
Click to expand...
I was using it as an example. And as you know it is true. They always ask for what can be considered too much. Then blame everyone else involved when they don't get it. And some then side with them.

And some even try to say that anyone that SISU have dealt with would have put in clauses to stop any agreements mid term.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #177
skybluetony176 said:
Most likely yes. But not until our ten year contract is up. Which gives the club time to make alternative arrangements. We were never going to get time to do anything on a rolling one year commitment. I would have thought that was obvious so why did we return under that agreement if the academy is so important to the long term future of the club?
Click to expand...
Any long term deal would likely have a breakout clause, as the swimming pool is part of the city wide strategy and the swimming association have the money now, I'm fairly certain the higgs centre would have been serving notice on the academy even if they had a 10 year deal.


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #178
Astute said:
I was using it as an example. And as you know it is true. They always ask for what can be considered too much. Then blame everyone else involved when they don't get it. And some then side with them.

And some even try to say that anyone that SISU have dealt with would have put in clauses to stop any agreements mid term.
Click to expand...
What are the 17 points then?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #179
Astute said:
I was using it as an example. And as you know it is true. They always ask for what can be considered too much. Then blame everyone else involved when they don't get it. And some then side with them.

And some even try to say that anyone that SISU have dealt with would have put in clauses to stop any agreements mid term.
Click to expand...

So without knowing a single one of the 17 points you have decided they are unreasonable?
 
Reactions: torchomatic and Grendel

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #180
italiahorse said:
Surely it would be more economical to build it stand alone than convert an existing lightweight building into a swimming pool?
Click to expand...
It would be easier to get planning where the existing building is, plus it needs to connect to the building so that is the only logical place for it to go, you couldn't go into the carpark as thats already very small.

There must be good reasons why they are saying replace the pitch, as regardless of whether the academy is there nor not, thats the only true all weather indoor 4G football facility in the city.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

Nick

Administrator
  • May 31, 2016
  • #181
stupot07 said:
It would be easier to get planning where the existing building is, plus it needs to connect to the building so that is the only logical place for it to go, you couldn't go into the carpark as thats already very small.

There must be good reasons why they are saying replace the pitch, as regardless of whether the academy is there nor not, thats the only true all weather indoor 4G football facility in the city.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
And the pitch has just been relaid I think?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #182
Grendel said:
What are the 17 points then?
Click to expand...
And you know for sure that each one of them should be given as SISU would never ask for too much.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #183
Nick said:
And the pitch has just been relaid I think?
Click to expand...
It has.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #184
Grendel said:
The contract would have had a break clause. The council have acted disgracefully over this but as always the apologists unite.
Click to expand...
All SISU contracts have break clauses, usually a year or 2. Nothing but harmful short termism.
 
Reactions: colin101 and Astute

Nick

Administrator
  • May 31, 2016
  • #185
Captain Dart said:
All SISU contracts have break clauses, usually a year or 2. Nothing but harmful short termism.
Click to expand...
Sounds better than agreeing to 40+ years at 1.2m.

What would it actually take for somebody to see this as the higgs fault?

(As in what would the scenario have to be)
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #186
Nick said:
Sounds better than agreeing to 40+ years at 1.2m.
Click to expand...
... or a sliding scale just in case we drop down to D1 ?
 
Reactions: Kingokings204

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #187
Nick said:
And the pitch has just been relaid I think?
Click to expand...
Yeah £75k they spent on it.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #188
Nick said:
Sounds better than agreeing to 40+ years at 1.2m.

What would it actually take for somebody to see this as the higgs fault?

(As in what would the scenario have to be)
Click to expand...

Wasn't strictly true was it Nick. It was negotiated 400k by fisher for league 1 until sisu changed their strategy.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • May 31, 2016
  • #189
Kingokings204 said:
Wasn't strictly true was it Nick. It was negotiated 400k by fisher for league 1 until sisu changed their strategy.
Click to expand...
Which one was that?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #190
italiahorse said:
... or a sliding scale just in case we drop down to D1 ?
Click to expand...

Oh really? How much would that have been?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #191
Kingokings204 said:
Wasn't strictly true was it Nick. It was negotiated 400k by fisher for league 1 until sisu changed their strategy.
Click to expand...

Oh yes and back to £1.2 million two years later. Sounds like a plan.
 
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #192
Astute said:
You always ask for proof but can never provide any when stating things like you have here. What a surprise.
Click to expand...
Grendel said:
Oh yes and back to £1.2 million two years later. Sounds like a plan.
Click to expand...
the way we're going it won't matter soon will it?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #193
Grendel said:
Oh really? How much would that have been?
Click to expand...

We do know that CCFC 2003? were offered a sliding scale but accepted the fixed scale that Sisu strangely took on.
No idea what is was, but I guess it would be lower for L1 and higher for PL.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #194
Grendel said:
Oh yes and back to £1.2 million two years later. Sounds like a plan.
Click to expand...

Remember the £400K but you are my only source for the £1.2M
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #195
Nick said:
Which one was that?
Click to expand...

Before we went to Northampton it's well document fisher got us a rent of 400k upon relegation to league 1. Now Grendel says it went back up to 1.2m after 2 years but that's not strictly true either. He has a point as it was temporary but I think and I will try and find the quote along the lines of it would of gone to a league based proportion for the rent.

Anyway it's irrelevant really as we know what happened sisu changed their tactics and moved to Northampton to destress ACL. ("Judges words") wasps struck a deal with ccc and Higgs and here we are 3 years later arguing over a 15k butts stadium. Funny old world.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176, Astute and italiahorse

Nick

Administrator
  • May 31, 2016
  • #196
Kingokings204 said:
Before we went to Northampton it's well document fisher got us a rent of 400k upon relegation to league 1. Now Grendel says it went back up to 1.2m after 2 years but that's not strictly true either. He has a point as it was temporary but I think and I will try and find the quote along the lines of it would of gone to a league based proportion for the rent.

Anyway it's irrelevant really as we know what happened sisu changed their tactics and moved to Northampton to destress ACL. ("Judges words") wasps struck a deal with ccc and Higgs and here we are 3 years later arguing over a 15k butts stadium. Funny old world.
Click to expand...
I thought it was reverting back but negotiable?
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #197
Nick said:
I thought it was reverting back but negotiable?
Click to expand...

Yes exactly right Nick. That's how I understood it also. So probably between 400k and 1.2m not an immediate revert back to 1.2m.

Irrelevant I know but the point about the rent was it wasn't the problem. In the championship 1.2m is not cheap but it's not expensive. Much bigger 32k than most even in the championship today and championship brings in 5-6m more money into the club than league 1. The rent wasn't the problem.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • May 31, 2016
  • #198
Kingokings204 said:
Yes exactly right Nick. That's how I understood it also. So probably between 400k and 1.2m not an immediate revert back to 1.2m.

Irrelevant I know but the point about the rent was it wasn't the problem. In the championship 1.2m is not cheap but it's not expensive. Much bigger 32k than most even in the championship today and championship brings in 5-6m more money into the club than league 1. The rent wasn't the problem.
Click to expand...
It was expensive for match day only with no revenue wasn't it?
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • May 31, 2016
  • #199
Well yes that debateable I agree. The whole deal stank and the club always seemed to be pissing in the wind really from the move in date of 2005-6. It was always going to end badly bar a miracle to the premier league happening which never did happen.

What actually happened was disaster struck and we went down and 4 years later we are still in league 1 having never really mounted a challenge for top 6. I don't really include last year tbh as we were out of the top 6 with 10 games to go.

I would say sisu knew the deal when they took over and their plan to get us promoted and cash in was good in theory but high risk. Had we been promoted to the pl we wouldn't be here now.

The club was always designed to fail though as PL was never realistic. The Ricoh deal stank and when we sold our share to Higgs for 6m. That was curtains really. No one rents the same house for the rest of their lives. You either buy or you move. Football is no different in the main.
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #200
Grendel said:
What are the 17 points then?
Click to expand...

Doesn't 17 points condititons sound rather a lot ?
If i was a cynical person I would say it was purposely a way of not getting a deal done!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #201
sky blue john said:
Doesn't 17 points condititons sound rather a lot ?
If i was a cynical person I would say it was purposely a way of not getting a deal done!
Click to expand...

It's wasps who don't want a deal done on terms acceptable to the club.

Still let's keep our head firmly in the sisu out sandpit. It's far more relevant.
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #202
Grendel said:
It's wasps who don't want a deal done on terms acceptable to the club.

Still let's keep our head firmly in the sisu out sandpit. It's far more relevant.
Click to expand...

I take it you know what the 17 points conditions are then ?
Surely if Sisu HQ really wanted a deal they would publish the 17 points conditions so that the fans can sympathise and support them ?
My personal oppinion based on history and court cases is that Sisu are Masters at not getting a deal done !
 
Reactions: skybluetony176, Astute and colin101

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #203
I
sky blue john said:
I take it you know what the 17 points conditions are then ?
Surely if Sisu HQ really wanted a deal they would publish the 17 points conditions so that the fans can sympathise and support them ?
My personal oppinion based on history and court cases is that Sisu are Masters at not getting a deal done !
Click to expand...

Well they got a deal to move the club to Northampton and got the league to agree it.

Wasps could easily have said to the club publish it and don't bother knocking again,

Odd your not interested in what wasps counter proposals are - why not insist they publish what they want the club to shun up to?
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #204
Grendel said:
I


Well they got a deal to move the club to Northampton and got the league to agree it.
Wasps could easily have said to the club publish it and don't bother knocking again,

Odd your not interested in what wasps counter proposals are - why not insist they publish what they want the club to shun up to?
Click to expand...

In terms of Northampton you seem so proud in mentioning it, that you must have been in the minority of cov fans that supported it !
In terms of offers, deals and negotiations of course i want to see what both sides have to say. That is the only way a sane person can make a non-biased judgement.
 
Reactions: Astute and colin101

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #205
Grendel said:
I


Well they got a deal to move the club to Northampton and got the league to agree it.

Wasps could easily have said to the club publish it and don't bother knocking again,

Odd your not interested in what wasps counter proposals are - why not insist they publish what they want the club to shun up to?
Click to expand...
Why don't you insist that SISU publish the 17 points that they said they want? Then there is a slight chance that we could agree with you and say that they are not taking the piss for once.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Kingokings204

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #206
Grendel said:
I


Well they got a deal to move the club to Northampton and got the league to agree it.
Click to expand...

By giving bullshit saying that we were getting kicked out of the arena and that they were in the process of building a stadium. That was why they were given 3 years in Northampton and maybe another 2 years depending on how the build was going.
 
Reactions: italiahorse

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #207
Astute said:
By giving bullshit saying that we were getting kicked out of the arena and that they were in the process of building a stadium. That was why they were given 3 years in Northampton and maybe another 2 years depending on how the build was going.
Click to expand...

Not well.
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #208
Astute said:
By giving bullshit saying that we were getting kicked out of the arena and that they were in the process of building a stadium. That was why they were given 3 years in Northampton and maybe another 2 years depending on how the build was going.
Click to expand...

We all know the only reason for leaving the Ricoh and it was nothing to do with benefitting CCFC. It was all about bumping up the level of compensation Sisu have been trying to get through the JR.
I have no doubt the club were threatened with expulsion from the stadium, standard business practice in any way of life when you stop paying your rent.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #209
sky blue john said:
We all know the only reason for leaving the Ricoh and it was nothing to do with benefitting CCFC. It was all about bumping up the level of compensation Sisu have been trying to get through the JR.
I have no doubt the club were threatened with expulsion from the stadium, standard business practice in any way of life when you stop paying your rent.
Click to expand...


Not back to that are we? The dreaded fisher comment of "standard business procedure"

Sorry bad memories.

As for the stadium when we moved to sixfields this would of been the end of the 3 year initial deal with Northampton I wonder what would of happened t that extension of 2 years dependent on the build of the new stadium? Awkward conversation to say the least.
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 1, 2016
  • #210
Why are we arguing over the same shit again?
Need to concentrate On the future we can't change the past.
Or biggest treat is losing the academy.
So we have to target the ones that manage the Higgs centre and the club owners to get together and broker a deal.
If one side aren't intrested in talking we should then go all out against them.
I am not sure but I believe it is all down to the Higgs centre management if so we need to put our words into a protest against them not each other.
I am not a sisu lover as you well know but if this threat is down to the council then we need to get answers from them now.
They closed a perfectly good swimming pool at Livingston baths, that could have solved this problem.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204 and Nick
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