SISU/ARVO appeal turned down (1 Viewer)

italiahorse · May 29, 2016

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Agree with what you have said and that's why we as fans must stop getting at each other and concentrate on supporting the team after all they are our team. At the moment our biggest problem is the academy wish people would see that

Supporting the team is easy on match days, unless its been moved to Northampton for political reasons.
Even just talking about moving the team to a smaller stadium (Butts) turns people off supporting.
Aspirations of a return to the PL is essential for me. I would not support a 15,000 seater stadium unless the infrastructure was prebuilt like Stadium MK.
Worse case scenario would be Butts with 3/4 temporary stands with 8,000 seats and the promise of a bigger stadium. (IMHO t's what will happen if legals continue for a couple more years). I would not go so Sisu take note.

wingy · May 29, 2016

Nick said:
Agree, people should separate SISU and CCFC.

Sorry but for me that is Impossible.

Grendel · May 29, 2016

italiahorse said:
Supporting the team is easy on match days, unless its been moved to Northampton for political reasons.
Even just talking about moving the team to a smaller stadium (Butts) turns people off supporting.
Aspirations of a return to the PL is essential for me. I would not support a 15,000 seater stadium unless the infrastructure was prebuilt like Stadium MK.
Worse case scenario would be Butts with 3/4 temporary stands with 8,000 seats and the promise of a bigger stadium. (IMHO t's what will happen if legals continue for a couple more years). I would not go so Sisu take note.

You've already said you wouldn't go to support the team if it meant you couldn't walk to the ground.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 29, 2016

italiahorse said:
Supporting the team is easy on match days, unless its been moved to Northampton for political reasons.
Even just talking about moving the team to a smaller stadium (Butts) turns people off supporting.
Aspirations of a return to the PL is essential for me. I would not support a 15,000 seater stadium unless the infrastructure was prebuilt like Stadium MK.
Worse case scenario would be Butts with 3/4 temporary stands with 8,000 seats and the promise of a bigger stadium. (IMHO t's what will happen if legals continue for a couple more years). I would not go so Sisu take note.

No it's not easy Italia because the team you see on match days is not all of the team is it what about the others in the squad what about the kids? For me if they're playing in Coventry I will go to watch them even in a park you do what you want.

italiahorse · May 29, 2016

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
No it's not easy Italia because the team you see on match days is not all of the team is it what about the others in the squad what about the kids? For me if they're playing in Coventry I will go to watch them even in a park you do what you want.

The problem is that if CCFC fans are prepared to settle for a small ground Sisu might just provide it.
I need to believe that one day we can get back to the PL and the moment the club settles for where we are I don't think I can continue.
Got to admire following to any pitch in Coventry.

The Academy is a big risk to kids coming through.
I'm not 100% on this but are the new owners of Higgs moving on with their plans because CCFC won't commit long term.
Have they said they have left the door open though but no approach from CCFC ?

armybike · May 29, 2016

italiahorse said:
The problem is that if CCFC fans are prepared to settle for a small ground Sisu might just provide it.
I need to believe that one day we can get back to the PL and the moment the club settles for where we are I don't think I can continue.
Got to admire following to any pitch in Coventry.

The Academy is a big risk to kids coming through.
I'm not 100% on this but are the new owners of Higgs moving on with their plans because CCFC won't commit long term.
Have they said they have left the door open though but no approach from CCFC ?

Fisher has said on a number of occasions that the intention is to amalgamate the training facility, academy etc all into one location - which actually would make sense.

Therefore surely Higgs have to look at other options like the 50ft pool and/or Wasps to enhance their longterm stability.

Whilst I'm not saying they should chuck the Academy out on their ear, surely it makes financial sense to work with those who are showing their in for the long haul at the site?

The fact SISU have still not made commitment to any of the sites or projects that have apparently been worked on for sometime shouldn't mean Higgs should just twiddle their thumbs surely?

Time for SISU to put their stake in the ground and get some long term stability in place for the manager, players and fans.

Grendel · May 29, 2016

armybike said:
Fisher has said on a number of occasions that the intention is to amalgamate the training facility, academy etc all into one location - which actually would make sense.

Therefore surely Higgs have to look at other options like the 50ft pool and/or Wasps to enhance their longterm stability.

Whilst I'm not saying they should chuck the Academy out on their ear, surely it makes financial sense to work with those who are showing their in for the long haul at the site?

The fact SISU have still not made commitment to any of the sites or projects that have apparently been worked on for sometime shouldn't mean Higgs should just twiddle their thumbs surely?

Time for SISU to put their stake in the ground and get some long term stability in place for the manager, players and fans.

The pool has been built by the council as part of a project and would always have been favoured above any deal by the club.

It's nothing to do with what Higgs want - as you well know.

stupot07 · May 29, 2016

armybike said:
Fisher has said on a number of occasions that the intention is to amalgamate the training facility, academy etc all into one location - which actually would make sense.

Therefore surely Higgs have to look at other options like the 50ft pool and/or Wasps to enhance their longterm stability.

Whilst I'm not saying they should chuck the Academy out on their ear, surely it makes financial sense to work with those who are showing their in for the long haul at the site?

The fact SISU have still not made commitment to any of the sites or projects that have apparently been worked on for sometime shouldn't mean Higgs should just twiddle their thumbs surely?

Time for SISU to put their stake in the ground and get some long term stability in place for the manager, players and fans.

I'd say neither of those options will provide a long term solution. Wasps will eventually buy some land and build their own training facility and swimming pools are money pits to run. LAs have to have to heavily subsidise running costs.

Its the council who are keen for the swimming pool, as its part of their water strategy to have a swimming pool in the 4 areas of the city, the British swimming association are paying for the build but not contributing to ongoing running costs, apparently its hardly going to be available for public use. The swimming pool would be going ahead regardless of whether we had a Long term commitment or not, and as having a an indoor pitch is a statutory requirement for a cat 2 academy, our academy would be at risk anyway, even if we had a 10 year deal contract.

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armybike · May 30, 2016

stupot07 said:
I'd say neither of those options will provide a long term solution. Wasps will eventually buy some land and build their own training facility and swimming pools are money pits to run. LAs have to have to heavily subsidise running costs.

Its the council who are keen for the swimming pool, as its part of their water strategy to have a swimming pool in the 4 areas of the city, the British swimming association are paying for the build but not contributing to ongoing running costs, apparently its hardly going to be available for public use. The swimming pool would be going ahead regardless of whether we had a Long term commitment or not, and as having a an indoor pitch is a statutory requirement for a cat 2 academy, our academy would be at risk anyway, even if we had a 10 year deal contract.

So Higgs wouldn't financially benefit from Wasps being their or from the pool being built on their land?

The fact remains Fisher has said the intention is to have the Academy located elsewhere.

Why are we still not aware of what SISU's plans are some three years since it all went belly up and they left (we hounded out) of the Ricoh - all we've had is soundbites which have come to nothing.

Even to possibility of a move to the Butts is only at the discussion stage.

Nick · May 30, 2016

armybike said:
So Higgs wouldn't financially benefit from Wasps being their or from the pool being built on their land?

The fact remains Fisher has said the intention is to have the Academy located elsewhere.

Why are we still not aware of what SISU's plans are some three years since it all went belly up and they left (we hounded out) of the Ricoh - all we've had is soundbites which have come to nothing.

Even to possibility of a move to the Butts is only at the discussion stage.

When did Fisher say that and when did Anderson say he wants us there longer term?

I think the fact so many people are saying wasps is a done deal gets swept away and the pool would happen whether ccfc are there or not

stupot07 · May 30, 2016

Nick said:
When did Fisher say that and when did Anderson say he wants us there longer term?

I think the fact so many people are saying wasps is a done deal gets swept away and the pool would happen whether ccfc are there or not

Wasps and the swimming pool Ade done deals, but its easier to blame sisu. This would be happening anyway.

Sisu are to blame for many things with the appalling running of our club, but this isn't one them.

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Nick · May 30, 2016

stupot07 said:
Wasps and the swimming pool Ade done deals, but its easier to blame sisu. This would be happening anyway.

Sisu are to blame for many things with the appalling running of our club, but this isn't one them.

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I think something is going on, the pr against sisu has been cranked up ready for something

The door open comment is the same as the invite to buy the higgs half when wasps came in, it doesn't actually say or confirm anything just holds a big arrow at sisu and the club.

ccfcway · May 30, 2016

Nick said:
I think something is going on, the pr against sisu has been cranked up ready for something.

lost the appeal, lost the ability to appeal the lost appeal, about to lose the academy due to not securing another site when saying it was laving the higgs.

on the other hand we have the positive that is the butts.I wouldn't say PR against them has been cranked up. The butts news is all for SISU isn't it ?

armybike · May 30, 2016

Nick said:
When did Fisher say that and when did Anderson say he wants us there longer term?

I think the fact so many people are saying wasps is a done deal gets swept away and the pool would happen whether ccfc are there or not

Fisher said has said these things on numerous occasions.

Others options have been put in the mix since then for use of the site - be they done deals or not, the information being put forward was that the Academy would be moved elsewhere.

Anderson has then recently said he wants the Academy to stay there.

Should any plans that have been put in place just be forgotten about because it's suddenly been realised that actually, despite all the bluster from Fisher, we're not in a situation were we can amalgamate all the facilities.

Despite how it might read, I'm not welcoming the prospect of the Academy not having a home - I'm looking at the situation objectively.

If we take aside the parties involved, surely if one of the groups/parties involved in a site say they are looking to go elsewhere then the owners of the site would look for or at other options.

I'm not 'blaming SISU' - I'm pointing the finger directly at Tim Fisher. He's happily fired out soundbites and from memory not one of them has come to fruition (to date).

His comments would be laughable if they hadn't, in my opinion, had such a detrimental impact on the situation CCFC find themselves in.

Also, if anyone needs reminding of how out of touch Fisher is with the feelings of CCFC fans -

Also, PR against SISU has been cranked up? Where and how?

Colin Steins Smile · May 30, 2016

armybike said:
Fisher said has said these things on numerous occasions.

Others options have been put in the mix since then for use of the site - be they done deals or not, the information being put forward was that the Academy would be moved elsewhere.

Anderson has then recently said he wants the Academy to stay there.

Should any plans that have been put in place just be forgotten about because it's suddenly been realised that actually, despite all the bluster from Fisher, we're not in a situation were we can amalgamate all the facilities.

Despite how it might read, I'm not welcoming the prospect of the Academy not having a home - I'm looking at the situation objectively.

If we take aside the parties involved, surely if one of the groups/parties involved in a site say they are looking to go elsewhere then the owners of the site would look for or at other options.

I'm not 'blaming SISU' - I'm pointing the finger directly at Tim Fisher. He's happily fired out soundbites and from memory not one of them has come to fruition (to date).

His comments would be laughable if they hadn't, in my opinion, had such a detrimental impact on the situation CCFC find themselves in.

Also, if anyone needs reminding of how out of touch Fisher is with the feelings of CCFC fans -

Also, PR against SISU has been cranked up? Where and how?

I understand that the communications from the club has been that they wanted to establish an integrated stadium with academy facility. Therefore, Higgs Trust would have to consider other options for the use of their facility. The issue now is the timeline of the club realising that aim. Obviously, it would appear that this does not fit with the potential redevelopment of the current site. Alternatively, if the club has changed it's strategy, then they need to communicate this....urgently!

italiahorse · May 30, 2016

Nick said:
I think something is going on, the pr against sisu has been cranked up ready for something

Where, who, when ?
Sisu don't need PR to get people against them. They already are, surely ?

James Smith · May 30, 2016

Nick said:
I think something is going on, the pr against sisu has been cranked up ready for something

The door open comment is the same as the invite to buy the higgs half when wasps came in, it doesn't actually say or confirm anything just holds a big arrow at sisu and the club.

This time it's the Warwickshire trust or something like that who are making the offer to stay at the Higgs as they're the new owners. Now whether this is a genuine offer or one designed to make the Warwickshire trust look good I've got no idea. I wouldn't put money on it but the negativity towards Sisu might be a reaction to the news that they're considering an appeal. It could be an attempt to get them to drop it but somehow I doubt it will work.

Colin Steins Smile · May 30, 2016

James Smith said:
This time it's the Warwickshire trust or something like that who are making the offer to stay at the Higgs as they're the new owners. Now whether this is a genuine offer or one designed to make the Warwickshire trust look good I've got no idea. I wouldn't put money on it but the negativity towards Sisu might be a reaction to the news that they're considering an appeal. It could be an attempt to get them to drop it but somehow I doubt it will work.

For clarification. I would guess that the Higgs Trust as separated it's business from the operator of the facilities. Hence the creation of the Warwickshire Trust. This is due to the operator running facilities not owned by the Higgs Trust [i.e. Coventry Sports Centre] & the potential risk of the operator running at a deficit that would place the Higgs Trust at risk.
In short, it's a separation of the organisation and will mean that Higgs Trust reverts to it's original function and leaves the commercial operator role to the new trust. Hence, decisions on revenue generation and lettings is out of the Higgs Trust control.
Unless someone else knows something different?

dongonzalos · May 31, 2016

Nick said:
I think something is going on, the pr against sisu has been cranked up ready for something

The door open comment is the same as the invite to buy the higgs half when wasps came in, it doesn't actually say or confirm anything just holds a big arrow at sisu and the club.

When you were recently talking about something maybe happening because the PR was getting cranked up.
I genuinely thought you meant from the club.
Ie, appeals, Supreme Court, Europe.
Talks with Wasps going nowhere leak
The BPA leak.
The academy getting kicked out leak.

What have been the PR ramping up instances from the other side?

Captain Dart · May 31, 2016

Colin Steins Smile said:
I understand that the communications from the club has been that they wanted to establish an integrated stadium with academy facility. Therefore, Higgs Trust would have to consider other options for the use of their facility. The issue now is the timeline of the club realising that aim. Obviously, it would appear that this does not fit with the potential redevelopment of the current site. Alternatively, if the club has changed it's strategy, then they need to communicate this....urgently!

In my view all these strategies the club say they are going to adopt are with the express purpose of pressurising the other party into giving them better terms. The strategy of leaning on CCC & Higgs has backfired spectacularly, the club has lost a massive amount of goodwill, now no one will lift a finger to help them.

Skyblueweeman · May 31, 2016

italiahorse said:
Even just talking about moving the team to a smaller stadium (Butts) turns people off supporting. I would not go so Sisu take note.

I think you're talking on behalf of one person. To say moving to the Butts turns people of supporting is a ridiculous thing to say.

italiahorse · May 31, 2016

Skyblueweeman said:
I think you're talking on behalf of one person. To say moving to the Butts turns people of supporting is a ridiculous thing to say.

You need to read the details of my posts.
I'm saying that the infrastructure needs to be in place (like MKDons) to easily move to the maximum 25,000+ stadium when required.
If it's 15,000 or less with no chance of expansion then we have settled at this level and I'm not going.
IMHO there are many more people out there who also see this the same.

Skyblueweeman · May 31, 2016

italiahorse said:
You need to read the details of my posts.
I'm saying that the infrastructure needs to be in place (like MKDons) to easily move to the maximum 25,000+ stadium when required.
If it's 15,000 or less with no chance of expansion then we have settled at this level and I'm not going.

Bournemouth got to the Prem (and have stayed there) with a stadium of just over 11k.
A stadium of 15k doesn't mean we've settled at this level...it's been proven that historically, our crowds rarely touch the mid-20ks apart from one off/big games. Even when we were in the Prem we never sold out HR consistently.

I'm not saying that I want a 15k stadium by the way. But i'd rather we had a full stadium with good atmosphere, rather than have a ground 1/2 or 2/3s full with a crap atmosphere.

What's more, I'd like to see you not go to any of our games in the PL based on the fact that our stadium isn't big enough.

Colin Steins Smile · May 31, 2016

Skyblueweeman said:
Bournemouth got to the Prem (and have stayed there) with a stadium of just over 11k.
A stadium of 15k doesn't mean we've settled at this level...it's been proven that historically, our crowds rarely touch the mid-20ks apart from one off/big games. Even when we were in the Prem we never sold out HR consistently.

I'm not saying that I want a 15k stadium by the way. But i'd rather we had a full stadium with good atmosphere, rather than have a ground 1/2 or 2/3s full with a crap atmosphere.

What's more, I'd like to see you not go to any of our games in the PL based on the fact that our stadium isn't big enough.

It's true that they've got a small ground, but they've benefitted from £ millions being fed into the club over a number of years.

italiahorse · May 31, 2016

Skyblueweeman said:
Bournemouth got to the Prem (and have stayed there) with a stadium of just over 11k.
A stadium of 15k doesn't mean we've settled at this level...it's been proven that historically, our crowds rarely touch the mid-20ks apart from one off/big games. Even when we were in the Prem we never sold out HR consistently.

I'm not saying that I want a 15k stadium by the way. But i'd rather we had a full stadium with good atmosphere, rather than have a ground 1/2 or 2/3s full with a crap atmosphere.

What's more, I'd like to see you not go to any of our games in the PL based on the fact that our stadium isn't big enough.

I wouldn't get a ticket if we made it to the PL along with another 15,000.
Can't believe people have fell for the Sisu propaganda and are running with it.
At least question SISU figures.
Each to their own opinion I guess.

letsallsingtogether · May 31, 2016

Skyblueweeman said:
Bournemouth got to the Prem (and have stayed there) with a stadium of just over 11k.
A stadium of 15k doesn't mean we've settled at this level...it's been proven that historically, our crowds rarely touch the mid-20ks apart from one off/big games. Even when we were in the Prem we never sold out HR consistently.

I'm not saying that I want a 15k stadium by the way. But i'd rather we had a full stadium with good atmosphere, rather than have a ground 1/2 or 2/3s full with a crap atmosphere.

What's more, I'd like to see you not go to any of our games in the PL based on the fact that our stadium isn't big enough.

But we have been told we cannot survive in league 1 with those crowds so how would we survive in the Prem?
Oh I suppose they could double the price of the tickets and pretend there are 30,000 there.
Funny people mention Highfield road and how we never filled the ground.
Those were diferant times lots of clubs never filled there grounds.

rupert_bear · May 31, 2016

Anyone who considers a move to BPA and its apparent 15k capacity as positive is quiet frankly a sandwich short of a picnic, some on here see cutting our capacity by 50% is a one step back to go forwards one day, someday. It would finish CCFC as we know it and slowly but surely we would slip further down the football pyramid to pre-great war days. Okay at the moment more often than not we get less than 15000 but have been well above that sometimes and that has to be Anderson's target surely. At the meeting I went to with him doing his speeches he quiet clearly said negotiating a deal with Wasps was on his agenda and that's is the only option within the city boundary.he has in my opinion. Location wise I would love BPA, but accessibility without significant alterations to the surrounding infrustructure is a no go planning wise, thanks to that retirement village, a railway line, a hotel and an office block there is just one way in from the town centre.

skybluetony176 · May 31, 2016

Bournemouth didn't gain premier league status because of their ground capacity or 365day a year income, they did it because they had a wealthy backer who was willing to put his own money in to achieve premier league status. Why people keep bringing up Bournemouth as an example is puzzling. There is no comparison.

Skyblueweeman · May 31, 2016

italiahorse said:
I wouldn't get a ticket if we made it to the PL along with another 15,000.
Can't believe people have fell for the Sisu propaganda and are running with it.
At least question SISU figures.
Each to their own opinion I guess.

What do you mean you wouldn't get a ticket along with 15k others?? That insinuates that we'd have an uptake of 30k for home games? How many times have we sold out the Ricoh? How many times did will fill HR in the PL years? I've not fallen for any propaganda...see my comment about not being up for a 15k stadium.

As for other peoples comments - yes Bournemouth did have a millionaire pump millions in...whose to say that if and when we get to the PL, it won't be with a different owner? The club will be here much longer that SISU will.

And Rupert Bear - cutting our capacity by 50% is a step backwards. If we're filling the Ricoh every week. But we're not. If it was a fixed 15k, then this would be a poor option from a long term point of view. If it as the ability to increase to 25k, that would be perfect for us. Anything more and we'd not fill the thing consistently.

Monners · May 31, 2016

BPA - cannot see how it is a good move -it isn't going to happen anyway. The Bournemouth story is a bit of a one off - by comparison how many other clubs with new 20 -25k stadia have come into the PL - the answer is plenty, which is the norm, We are stuck with being tenants at the Ricoh, so should focus on that.

My current concern is over the academy

oldskyblue58 · May 31, 2016

It cost Bournemouth 45m in losses and FFP penalty to get out of the Championship. For the foreseeable future we don't have owners that would fund that even £5m annual losses. 2015 they lost 30m + year before £10m

The wages in 2015 were 2.5 times the turnover and 1.7 times the previous year.

It can be done on a small ground or turnover but you need owners prepared to pay out multi millions over a number of seasons

Just a personal opinion but I wouldn't want success bought in that way again by any owner of CCFC. Loading the club with debt or other financial instruments is not the long term future

King of the Lesbians · May 31, 2016

italiahorse said:
If it's 15,000 or less with no chance of expansion then we have settled at this level and I'm not going.

You have to be on a wind-up.
Surely nobody would give up supporting a club due to ground capacity?

Nick · May 31, 2016

King of the Lesbians said:
You have to be on a wind-up.
Surely nobody would give up supporting a club due to ground capacity?

That's an understandable reason compared to some.

stupot07 · May 31, 2016

italiahorse said:
I wouldn't get a ticket if we made it to the PL along with another 15,000.
Can't believe people have fell for the Sisu propaganda and are running with it.
At least question SISU figures.
Each to their own opinion I guess.

Why wouldn't you? You're an existing ST holder, your seat gets reserved for you each season..

Unless you'd really sack off going to watch us at the butts but then only want to come back if we were in the prem, then more fool you for abandoning the club based on ground capacity.

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rupert_bear · May 31, 2016

If we cut our capacity to 15000 in a few months our averaged will be hair that, anyway not getting in a debate about something that ain't going to happen, just go there stand and look it come back here and tell me it's likely to happen

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