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MichaelCCFC · Mar 30, 2013

There should only be 2 priorities: the team and the fans. acl-sisu pr machines have the dispute into being pro/anti acl/sisu and look where that has got us - administration, 10 points deduction, and if figures on here are correct just 7.5k city supporters at yesterday's game (in which I thought we were excellent and for 90 mins it was a reminder of what being a City fan is really about).
I always agree with people who say let's just get behind the team but for football fans in the modern era we can't ignore off the field events - we can't just pretend we haven't been docked 10 points.
What we need to do is have confidence in ourselves as fans and start saying its time to put the team and supporters first, rather than arguing about whether acl/sisu or anyone else is right or wrong. Fans need to stand together and, as has happened at other clubs in the same position as we're now in, that means joining the local supporters Trust - in our case that's the Sky Blue Trust. Membership has doubled in barely a week and the Administartor has agreed to meet Trust reps - a sign that there are now enough members that the Trust's credibility has been achieved. The Sky Blue Trust's message is developing quickly into saying:

Fans can make a difference (look at Swansea and Pompey)
Fan-led ownership works and we need to adopt and adapt an approach to fit the circumstances of ccfc
We need co-investors (not billionaires, but fans who could put in six figure sums - at Pompey, fans have bought individual shares prices at £1k and raised £2-3m*, 6/8 co investors have put in slightly less, and a land deal with a developer will raise several million for the club while also giving the developed a big profit)
Every new member of the Trust makes fans' voice louder
Why does anyone think a new millionaire owner will be different to the various wealthy individuals who have been our owners over the last 15+ years and have led us not to success but to being in a right mess?

*This will be the biggest ever cash injection into Portsmouth FC becuase all their rich owners only ever put money in as loans or similar recoverable deals.

So, put the team and fans first - like hundreds more supporters did yesterday join the Trust for just a quid at www.skybluetrust.co.uk

coundonskyblue · Mar 30, 2013

Do you have a figure of how many members the trust has now?

TurkeyTrot · Mar 30, 2013

coundonskyblue said:
Do you have a figure of how many members the trust has now?

He better have!
He's the membership secretary!

TurkeyTrot · Mar 30, 2013

I had to shoot off early yesterday but I think we're nearing 1900.

bradwellskyblues · Mar 30, 2013

i agree with a lot you say but please do not use pompey as an example as they are still in admin about to be relegated and the trust is by no means in charge

MichaelCCFC · Mar 30, 2013

coundonskyblue said:
Do you have a figure of how many members the trust has now?

Still inputting details of all the new people who joined yesterday and number of people joining via the Trust website increases by the hour - my estimate is 1800-1900 but can't be exact unitl yesterday's inputting is completed.

MichaelCCFC · Mar 30, 2013

bradwellskyblues said:
i agree with a lot you say but please do not use pompey as an example as they are still in admin about to be relegated and the trust is by no means in charge

Pompey have one final court date and if the Administrator gets his way in that the Trust will be the owners within days. The key phrase is adopt and adapt an ownership that fits our circumstances

rupert_bear · Mar 30, 2013

I know this is perhaps a contraversal question but could our trust ever be in contention of buying the Higgs share of the Ricoh ? Obviously it if ever possible is way down the line and financing such a thing is another question. BUT who would be better ? A foriegner sucking out any proffit, who says it would go towards the team ? Maybe ending up a sisu mark two or an organisation with just the club at heart. For those who will jump on this thread and ridicule this notion remember the Swansea trust started when their club was almost dead by 3 men and a dog in a pub, similar with the Portsmouth trust who have taken on and about to defeat a multi-millionaire dodge-pot and i believe once established Pompey will soar like Swansea have

Steve.B50 · Mar 30, 2013

Our situation is different to the Pompy one, but we can learn a little from all the Trusts and between all Trust members we can put down a plan where the supporters come first.

TurkeyTrot · Mar 30, 2013

rupert_bear said:
I know this is perhaps a contraversal question but could our trust ever be in contention of buying the Higgs share of the Ricoh ? Obviously it if ever possible is way down the line and financing such a thing is another question. BUT who would be better ? A foriegner sucking out any proffit, who says it would go towards the team ? Maybe ending up a sisu mark two or an organisation with just the club at heart. For those who will jump on this thread and ridicule this notion remember the Swansea trust started when their club was almost dead by 3 men and a dog in a pub, similar with the Portsmouth trust who have taken on and about to defeat a multi-millionaire dodge-pot and i believe once established Pompey will soar like Swansea have

Rupert, I honestly believe anything is possible, it needs a lot of hard work and a lot more members but yes I do believe the fans could buy some part or all of the Higgs share.

CJparker · Mar 30, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
There should only be 2 priorities: the team and the fans. acl-sisu pr machines have the dispute into being pro/anti acl/sisu and look where that has got us - administration, 10 points deduction, and if figures on here are correct just 7.5k city supporters at yesterday's game (in which I thought we were excellent and for 90 mins it was a reminder of what being a City fan is really about).
I always agree with people who say let's just get behind the team but for football fans in the modern era we can't ignore off the field events - we can't just pretend we haven't been docked 10 points.
What we need to do is have confidence in ourselves as fans and start saying its time to put the team and supporters first, rather than arguing about whether acl/sisu or anyone else is right or wrong. Fans need to stand together and, as has happened at other clubs in the same position as we're now in, that means joining the local supporters Trust - in our case that's the Sky Blue Trust. Membership has doubled in barely a week and the Administartor has agreed to meet Trust reps - a sign that there are now enough members that the Trust's credibility has been achieved. The Sky Blue Trust's message is developing quickly into saying:

Fans can make a difference (look at Swansea and Pompey)

Fan-led ownership works and we need to adopt and adapt an approach to fit the circumstances of ccfc

We need co-investors (not billionaires, but fans who could put in six figure sums - at Pompey, fans have bought individual shares prices at £1k and raised £2-3m*, 6/8 co investors have put in slightly less, and a land deal with a developer will raise several million for the club while also giving the developed a big profit)

Every new member of the Trust makes fans' voice louder

Why does anyone think a new millionaire owner will be different to the various wealthy individuals who have been our owners over the last 15+ years and have led us not to success but to being in a right mess?

*This will be the biggest ever cash injection into Portsmouth FC becuase all their rich owners only ever put money in as loans or similar recoverable deals.

So, put the team and fans first - like hundreds more supporters did yesterday join the Trust for just a quid at www.skybluetrust.co.uk

Two points:

1) - you should say that fan-led ownership can work, not that it does work - look at the likes of Port Vale, Northampton etc where it didn't prosper

2) - to get a little more muscle, perhaps the £1 membership fee should be higher? Nobody would baulk at £3, and you would triple the kitty

Was there a membership drive somewhere yesterday? I missed that

TurkeyTrot · Mar 30, 2013

CJparker said:
Two points:

1) - you should say that fan-led ownership can work, not that it does work - look at the likes of Port Vale, Northampton etc where it didn't prosper

2) - to get a little more muscle, perhaps the £1 membership fee should be higher? Nobody would baulk at £3, and you would triple the kitty

Was there a membership drive somewhere yesterday? I missed that

Not sure the ins and outs at Port Vale, I have a number of friends who support Northampton, a lot of their problems lay with non support from the council who look after the Rugby club more.
The £1 subscription is irrelevant, an ownership model needs to be based on investment not subscription to the trust.
We were all around the ground, I ended up with the cushy job inside the casino.

rupert_bear · Mar 30, 2013

TurkeyTrot said:
Rupert, I honestly believe anything is possible, it needs a lot of hard work and a lot more members but yes I do believe the fans could buy some part or all of the Higgs share.

I went to the early trust meetings at the Squirrel and the old save-our-city meetings, can't go now as the meetings are on a Monday, the one day i can't make it, however this time round the trust started by like minded people with one common goal, Coventry City Football Club at heart, it is growing and this time will grow and grow and as they say from small acorns oak trees grow. So those who ridicule step back and look at the Swansea model and watch the Pompey one, we can easily emulate both of them.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 30, 2013

CJparker said:
Two points:

1) - you should say that fan-led ownership can work, not that it does work - look at the likes of Port Vale, Northampton etc where it didn't prosper

2) - to get a little more muscle, perhaps the £1 membership fee should be higher? Nobody would baulk at £3, and you would triple the kitty

Was there a membership drive somewhere yesterday? I missed that

Wycombe, another fan owned club, are facing a winding up order from HMRC at the moment.

TurkeyTrot · Mar 30, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Wycombe, another fan owned club, are facing a winding up order from HMRC at the moment.

That's why the trust talks about a sustainable model

Black6Osprey · Mar 30, 2013

I think the idea of fan ownership is okay but I would be interested to see how many of the 1900 members were willing to give £1000, because ultimately thats what its all about... Money. It's okay every one historically moaning about investment in the team but when people are asked to dig into their own pockets you won't see them for dust.

When people join are they asked what they would be willing to invest?

TurkeyTrot · Mar 30, 2013

Until we have a model that works and is sustainable then there's no point. Trust membership is 1900ish at the moment and growing daily. It's not just about members investing £1000. There's a lot more to it than that.

LarryGrayson · Mar 30, 2013

TurkeyTrot said:
Until we have a model that works and is sustainable then there's no point.

ta for that mate thats one of the things ive wanted to hear no point goin blindly in as it just hasnt worked for loads of clubs

TurkeyTrot · Mar 30, 2013

LarryGrayson said:
ta for that mate thats one of the things ive wanted to hear no point goin blindly in as it just hasnt worked for loads of clubs

Not a problem, I'm sure the trust will let you know when it has one that does work.

Black6Osprey · Mar 30, 2013

TurkeyTrot said:
Until we have a model that works and is sustainable then there's no point. Trust membership is 1900ish at the moment and growing daily. It's not just about members investing £1000. There's a lot more to it than that.

But for a fan share of ownership it is exactly about investing money. You aren't getting it for free. It's one of the only things I hear Trust representatives talking about and this message is becoming louder, so while I agree there is more to than that, it is one of the most mentioned parts of the Trusts plan. That's assuming you have a plan.

TurkeyTrot · Mar 30, 2013

Yes, the trust has a plan in principle. Fan ownership is about "small" investment from the individual fan. Say £1000, small business investment, say £5000 up. Then the larger investors. Coupled with maybe one main investor trust led fan based ownership is a real possibility. What % that amounts to obviously depends on investors capital.
It could work but it needs fans buy in.

torchomatic · Mar 30, 2013

Non support from the Council? Heaven forbid! We are just so lucky, aren't we?

TurkeyTrot said:
Not sure the ins and outs at Port Vale, I have a number of friends who support Northampton, a lot of their problems lay with non support from the council who look after the Rugby club more.
The £1 subscription is irrelevant, an ownership model needs to be based on investment not subscription to the trust.
We were all around the ground, I ended up with the cushy job inside the casino.

LoyalSupporters · Mar 30, 2013

Isn't it 14000 members? That's 14,000 grand then.

Where does the money go? In someones back pocket?

TurkeyTrot · Mar 30, 2013

LoyalSupporters said:
Isn't it 14000 members? That's 14,000 grand then.

Where does the money go? In someones back pocket?

The least to say the most...

MichaelCCFC · Mar 30, 2013

LoyalSupporters said:
Isn't it 14000 members? That's 14,000 grand then.

Where does the money go? In someones back pocket?

Just a couple of points to clarify, both relating to money. The membership fee has been deliberately kept at £1 to encourage as many people as possible to join. Membership money goes into a LloydsTSB account and is used for running costs like increasing IT capacity to cope with the huge increase in membership. Obtaining an ownership stake would be completely separate. We're stressing the principle of fan-led ownership not one particular model because we need something that will work specifically for CCFC. Some Trusts have had shares given to them free of charge. At Pompey, they have had over 2,000 supporters each buying a share for £1k (with a savings/loan scheme run by a local credit union for people who want to buy a share but don't have £1k to invest as an immediate lump sum). If Pompey can raise that much money from fans I don't see why at the City we couldn't match that and even do better. The rest is then down to co-investors and getting other parties to buy into the concept.

rupert_bear · Mar 30, 2013

Where does the money go? In someones back pocket?[/QUOTE]

What a pathetic statement

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 30, 2013

rupert_bear said:
Where does the money go? In someones back pocket?

What a pathetic statement[/QUOTE]

Many people have said that about SISU on anything and everything, you didn't say that was pathetic.

Both statements are nonetheless factually incorrect whether aimed at SISU or the SBT.

rupert_bear · Mar 30, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
What a pathetic statement

Many people have said that about SISU on anything and everything, you didn't say that was pathetic.

Both statements are nonetheless factually incorrect whether aimed at SISU or the SBT.[/QUOTE]

What you on about prick

Jack Griffin · Mar 30, 2013

I'm a bit sceptical about fan investment, but as a mimimum the fans need a voice which the owners listen to.

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 30, 2013

rupert_bear said:
What you on about prick

What am I on about?

Well, whenever we sell a player, it goes into SISU's pocket, ticket money, it goes into SISU's pocket, every penny CCFC make, according to some, goes into SISU's pocket. If that was the case, who pays for the running of the club and the players' wages? Exactly, it's a pathetic comment, yet, that wouldn't be a 'pathetic' comment to make according to some, including yourself, whereas, someone says it about the Trust, it's 'pathetic', clear double standards and hypocrisy.

It is a 'pathetic' comment to make, yes, but the same applies to SISU as well as the SBT.

No need to get personal with it either. In saying that, that makes up for one's own lack of wit/intelligence.

deanocity3 · Mar 30, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
I'm a bit sceptical about fan investment, but as a mimimum the fans need a voice which the owners listen to.

surely each time we go and buy a ticket we are investing in the club ?
It's a shame that the owners don't do with it as we would wish.

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