Sheffield United & their Wealth of "depth"..... (1 Viewer)

Apparently Sheffield United are up to their necks in debt, never mind wealth of depth. What happened to the Tevez money ?

johnwillomagic said:

"They have a "wealth" of depth and are miles ahead of us......" "Steve Simonsen brilliant much better then Murphy"....recent comments from posters.

I disagree with these points but I may be wrong...let's take a look at the news.

Sheff Utd release 11 in a bit to half the wage bill for 12/13......including Steve Simonsen......(hang on he's brilliant)!

As I say not too alarmed at all at the moment with FFP coming in think there will be a lot of lean squads relaying on topping up numbers from youth, free transfers and loans! However the one team who does worry me is Pompey at present as seem to be getting away with a lot again! :facepalm:

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Utter garbage. If you are going to quote somebody, actually quote them, rather than making things up they didn't say.

As for Sheff U-that was a team plucked out of the air. Reckon I could give you another 15 sides from our division and the same would be true when compared what we are going to be left with!

Nonleagueherewecome said:

Utter garbage. If you are going to quote somebody, actually quote them, rather than making things up they didn't say.

As for Sheff U-that was a team plucked out of the air. Reckon I could give you another 15 sides from our division and the same would be true when compared what we are going to be left with!

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Not a chance are there 15 sides better than us. Even with our ever depleting squad. Living near Sheffield and having a lot of friends that support both Sheffield clubs I can assure you our squad will be one of the better in the league. However, as many Wednesday fans will tell you that doesn't always translate to results!

I'd back a team of experienced L1 cloggers to beat our youth team every time. Anyone remember Hartlepool in the Cup under Coleman? It'll be like that every week. FFS, we're crying over losing Clive Platt, we're THAT screwed!

theprince said:

Apparently Sheffield United are up to their necks in debt, never mind wealth of depth. What happened to the Tevez money ?

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United have been in the shit for a couple of years as they continued to carry Premier League wages after relegation. The Tevez money was spent well before they got it. They threw all they could at an immediate return and have compounded the issue. However, they get good crowds and will be up there this year.

wonders who's gonna pick up a free Ched Evans whne he is out in a month or so...

Interesting that they got rid of him.

Thought he got 5 years? Or is that a comment you're making on our justice system a la McCormick?

Nonleagueherewecome said:

I'd back a team of experienced L1 cloggers to beat our youth team every time. Anyone remember Hartlepool in the Cup under Coleman? It'll be like that every week. FFS, we're crying over losing Clive Platt, we're THAT screwed!

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It won't be like that every week. The players don't give a shit about the league cup.

johnwillomagic said:

"They have a "wealth" of depth and are miles ahead of us......" "Steve Simonsen brilliant much better then Murphy"....recent comments from posters.

I disagree with these points but I may be wrong...let's take a look at the news.

Sheff Utd release 11 in a bit to half the wage bill for 12/13......including Steve Simonsen......(hang on he's brilliant)!

As I say not too alarmed at all at the moment with FFP coming in think there will be a lot of lean squads relaying on topping up numbers from youth, free transfers and loans! However the one team who does worry me is Pompey at present as seem to be getting away with a lot again! :facepalm:

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11 players released, and Evans and Simonson aside, the other 9 are surplus to requirements, which if anything, shows that their squad was huge !

mark82 said:

It won't be like that every week. The players don't give a shit about the league cup.

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not sure some of them gave a sh1t about the league

I'm willing to take a fiver with anyone who thinks we will be bottom half.

ccfcway said:

11 players released, and Evans and Simonson aside, the other 9 are surplus to requirements, which if anything, shows that their squad was huge !

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Exactly-my comments were very much based on them last season, and Preston were the other side I thought of. There's been talk of "Bouncing Back"-well those two didn't do it, despite giving it a go; by being decimated, how can we hope to even figure in the shake-up? It looks like 12th-15th to me. And a huge part of that is not the quality of our best XI-it's their age, their inexperience, the fact that L1 sides have know-how if not ability, and the shocking lack of depth in every area aside from GK and RB (UNTIL Keogh goes!).

And the Hartlepool game: they didn't beat us 'cos they wanted it more, they beat us as they had more experience and old heads. Crap footballers, but mentally and physically, they were better than us. Get used to that.

mark82 said:

United have been in the shit for a couple of years as they continued to carry Premier League wages after relegation. The Tevez money was spent well before they got it. They threw all they could at an immediate return and have compounded the issue. However, they get good crowds and will be up there this year.

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Is'nt their old chairman the guy fronting the Rangers takeover at the moment ,they have tried to diversify into all sorts in the last ten years or so ,Building Hotels ,Football clubs overseas,Spot any patterns here ,maybe sisu are just waiting to pick up some Distessed Scottish /English Premier team and then we'll be free.:facepalm:

Sheff Utd are the clear favourites with the bookies to win the league. (we're 3rd or 4th incidentally).

Who cares about the Blades?

They dont have Evans, so cant really see who should score their goals..

The last games without Evans, they have played the most boring and bad football i have ever seen.

Firstly just like to point out, I never made any comment about Sheffield Utd or Simonson yet for some reason in another thread you asked me personally about them, don't really understand why?

Quick question how many players do you think a squad needs?

Last season we had between 22-25 and it ended up commonly agreed that this was not big enough and did not have enough quality and this lead to our relegation. Even SISU admitted it. The kings of denial.

With these numbers there were times when we ended up with players on the bench or sometimes on the pitch who had never played a match before for the first team.

So when you say our squad will be one of the best in the division, how many players do you think a squad should have?

On a separate note my feeling is someone will buy half the stadium soon. However I feel they need to make 8-11 free transfers and loanees, if they do that may make our squad one of the best in the division.

You can have the best 11, actually best 9 in our case, but that will count for nothing if when 5-6 of them our out injured at the same time. Or 3-4 of them suffer long term injuries.

It seems you are somehow saying our kids who no one has ever seen play are better than other teams first team squads. I dont know how you can compare them. Maybe they are maybe they are not, no one really knows as a most of these kids will have never played for us before. They will not be getting in the team as they have progressed and made it and it is their time. They will be getting in due to finances?

Personally I think a squad should be 27-30 players. When Keogh Cranie, Bigi, McPake and ROD go. We will have about 15 players we ever seen play before and I include Jeffers, Willis and Ruffles in that 15. So we are talking 12-15 players you have never seen play before, can I ask you how you know exactly that they are better than other teams squad's?

I think you think our best 11 is one of the best and I think you are right on that, however that counts for jack shit and will just mean in between injuries the odd rare occasion where we have most of them fit will put on a good run that will get all our hopes up then we will get a few injuries and we hit the ground with a bump.

What is critical is when the deal is done that the condition that investment in the team results in numbers coming in not 3-4 signings.

mark82 said:

I'm willing to take a fiver with anyone who thinks we will be bottom half.

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If we start the season with this squad as it stands minus Keogh, Cranie, Bigi and McPake

and no new signings I will bet you a tenner we do finish in bottom half.

mark82 said:

I'm willing to take a fiver with anyone who thinks we will be bottom half.

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Make it a tenner and i'll take you up on the offer. Personally think we'll be relegated next season.

johnwillomagic said:

Seen a lot of as it stand squads which are not as it stands but how peoplethink it will go. So in order of rationality and fairness this is our actual squad as it stands now.

Basing it on the good ol Dongonzals list 22 man squad and ignore half the players still with us in the list below!

GK: Murphy/Dunn
RB: Clarke/Christie
CB: Crainie/McPake
CB: Keogh/Cameron
LB: Hussey/Wood
RM: Bell
CM: Bigi/Deegan
CM: Thomas
LM: Baker
ST: McSheffrey/ROD
ST: Mcdonald/Jeffers

I have ignored some of the other youth players such as Daniels & Ruffels who would be fringe for next year.

I am not saying we will not say we will lose some but sensible use of free's and loan markets makes that squad by my book pretty good. Think we could afford to lose a few defenders maybe and bolster midfield and attack.

Oh and non-league looking at current league 1 sides and squads excluding loanees which the list above does please list the15 teams with better squads with players and appearances please!......Mind yo sure you will say I misquoted you here in reply as well!

I think we may not be anywhere near as bad as many fear next season.

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I presume you are not referring to me regarding 15 teams.

I said we had 22 including kids last season and it was commonly agreed this was not enough. You have listed 19 for this season. Can you produce another list exclude the players you expect to leave.

You have not told me how many players a squad should have bearing in mind it needs to be more than 22.

So produce a list of the squad minus the players YOU expect to leave. Fill in the gaps with these kids who I assume you know about. Then look at it and decide if people are right to be worried.

That has only ever been my disagreement with you. You suggest people's concern is mass hysteria.

I have not said anything about sheff utd. I don't care about other teams.

We IMO need a squad of 27 to 30 with 5 or 6 of them as kids READY to take the next step. As oppose to been forced to as there is no one else.

I am very confident the 5 mentioned players will leave.

That leaves 8 to 11 signings.

I think someone be it sisu or whoever will get half the stadium part of the deal will be making the team competitive.

IMO to do that we need those signings.

Hence the concern not mass hysteria.

So over to you

Name your 27 to 30 minus the players YOU think will go. Add in all the kids you think will step in. See what you are left with.

Ask yourself will we get the signings to make up the diference.

Marty said:

Make it a tenner and i'll take you up on the offer. Personally think we'll be relegated next season.

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Im in too

johnwillomagic said:

We had more than 22 players in our squad including kids Dongonzales!!.....19 players on my list were there at start of season + we released about five atend of this season on our books at the strat of last season, we also had three loaness in during course of season. With with some more fringe academy players our squad was more like 28-30. Your maths seems poor in order to try to prove your argument but 22 is definitely factually inaccurate.

We can argue about how many will leave.....I think it will be three or four not five.......you also make a huge assumption that we will not bring in anyone or get any loans.....highly unlikely so again big hole in your argument that I have to produce outgoers with youth......I certainly do not and think it will be more likely to be from free transfers and loans of a more experienced level.

Our ideal squad number is not that different think 28 a good number 20 experienced (20 + league games), 4 (loans) & 4 (raw academy players)...we probably have about 16/18 of the 28 already. As I said in a previous post will review at the end of June we should have a clearer idea of outgoings and incoming then.

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yes fair comment about reviewing at end of June.

As I say I still think a deal will be done in next 2 weeks just think whoever comes in needs to know what is needed signings wise.

On a different thread including the kids someone has produced a list of the squad as it stands that is currently 27. Including the raw ones.

Out of Keogh, cranie, rod, mcpake and Bigi which one or two do you think are staying.

I think all 5 will go you think maybe only 3. So Let's say 4 go then that leaves 23, the ones going are mainly experienced pros.

The squad was considered too thin and too inexperienced. So this will make it thinner

To me we need ideally 30. You are happy with 28.

So would you agree we need a minimum of 5 experienced signings.

Personally I would say 7. And that is to stay in the division.

However I would prefer the 7 then some loanees on top instead of enforced kids who are not ready yet.

Do you think we will get that.

Marty said:

Make it a tenner and i'll take you up on the offer. Personally think we'll be relegated next season.

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I'll definitely take a tenner on avoiding relegation. You want to pay me now?

Why has this been moved anyway. Nick - think you need to look at mods.

johnwillomagic said:

We had more than 22 players in our squad including kids Dongonzales!!.....19 players on my list were there at start of season + we released about five atend of this season on our books at the strat of last season, we also had three loaness in during course of season. With with some more fringe academy players our squad was more like 28-30. Your maths seems poor in order to try to prove your argument but 22 is definitely factually inaccurate.

We can argue about how many will leave.....I think it will be three or four not five.......you also make a huge assumption that we will not bring in anyone or get any loans.....highly unlikely so again big hole in your argument that I have to produce outgoers with youth......I certainly do not and think it will be more likely to be from free transfers and loans of a more experienced level.

Our ideal squad number is not that different think 28 a good number 20 experienced (20 + league games), 4 (loans) & 4 (raw academy players)...we probably have about 16/18 of the 28 already. As I said in a previous post will review at the end of June we should have a clearer idea of outgoings and incoming then.

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This is the squad on the offal

1 Joe Murphy Goalkeeper Exp Pro
2 Richard Keogh Defender Leaving
3 Chris Hussey Defender Exp Pro
6 James McPake Defender Leaving
7 David Bell Midfielder Exp Pro
8 Carl Baker Midfielder Exp Pro
11 Gary McSheffrey Striker Exp Pro
12 Gary Deegan Midfielder Exp Pro
13 Chris Dunn Goalkeeper Exp Pro (I am been generous)
14 Cody McDonald Striker Exp Pro
15 Martin Cranie Defender Leaving
19 Roy O'Donovan Striker Leaving
24 Richard Wood Defender Exp Pro
26 Jordan Clarke Defender Exp Pro (I am been generous)
27 Shaun Jeffers Striker Raw
28 Callum Wilson Striker Raw
29 Billy Daniels Striker Raw
30 Nathan Cameron Defender Experienced Pro (I am been generous)
31 Cyrus Christie Defender Experienced Pro (I am been generous)
32 Conor Thomas Midfielder Experienced Pro (I am been generous)
33 Lee Burge Goalkeeper Raw
34 Gael Bigirimana Midfielder Leaving
35 Joshua Ruffels Midfielder Raw
36 Aaron Phillips Midfielder Raw
37 Jordan Willis Defender Raw
38 Will Roberts Midfielder Raw
39 Joe Henderson Raw

If we apply your logic

You say we need 28 players for a squad, (I agree)
20 experienced, 4 loanees, 4 raw. (I agree)

Have a look above. You say one of those I have as leaving will stay.

Out of the 27 above we currently have 9 that are raw.
There are a few listed as as experienced Pro's that people will not accept that they are, but for the sake of compromise.

So if also for the sake of compromise only 4 players leave, we need those 4 replaced with experienced pro's plus another experienced pro to make that 28. so that is 5.
(6 IMO)

Then we need 4 season long loans (that is the max) to replace 4 of the raws

If we sign the 5 experienced pros we will have 18, 4 loanees, then 6 raw kids.

So really to get what you think we need for a competitive squad. We need to sign 7 experienced pros, 4 loanees leaving 4 raw kids.

Which is exactly what I am saying 11 new signing a combination of freebies and loanees.

The reason for my concern is ask yourself the question will SISU or whoever know and understand that 11 signings is a minimum not a pipe dream of a unrealistic fan?

Hopefully now when you understand that you are asking for the same form SISU as those who are concerned you may accept there really is a reason to be concerned.

mark82 said:

I'll definitely take a tenner on avoiding relegation. You want to pay me now?

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Just to confirm,

We have a tenner on me- 13th - 24th & you 1st to 12th? You're on.

Nonleagueherewecome said:

I'd back a team of experienced L1 cloggers to beat our youth team every time. Anyone remember Hartlepool in the Cup under Coleman? It'll be like that every week. FFS, we're crying over losing Clive Platt, we're THAT screwed!

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Try again.

Some are crying over the loss of Platt. Yes we are low on numbers, but whilst with us he started in 47 games and also came on as sub in another 22 games. He scored 7 goals. Oh no, what a disaster he has gone :facepalm: We have another 2 1/2 months before we start again.

If anyone fancies a part of this bet on finishing in the bottom half of the table I will cover the lot. I will see if we can do it on Betfair. If not we can decide on where the stakes can be held. I am deluded and think we will be in the top 6. Letting me take the top 12 fills me with confidence. How many are saying we will do poor next season have had the pleasure of watching Div3 games recently? Lets put it another way, how many Div3 players could make the step up to the Championship? The more players we keep the easier it will be.

Astute said:

Try again.

Some are crying over the loss of Platt. Yes we are low on numbers, but whilst with us he started in 47 games and also came on as sub in another 22 games. He scored 7 goals. Oh no, what a disaster he has gone :facepalm: We have another 2 1/2 months before we start again.

If anyone fancies a part of this bet on finishing in the bottom half of the table I will cover the lot. I will see if we can do it on Betfair. If not we can decide on where the stakes can be held. I am deluded and think we will be in the top 6. Letting me take the top 12 fills me with confidence. How many are saying we will do poor next season have had the pleasure of watching Div3 games recently? Lets put it another way, how many Div3 players could make the step up to the Championship? The more players we keep the easier it will be.

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Fancy a bet young man? You take top 6 I'll take bottom 6, everything else is void? Tenner?

Tenner :laugh: Young man

As much as you like. Tenner will do for now. How about double if we go up or down?

Astute said:

Tenner :laugh: Young man

As much as you like. Tenner will do for now. How about double if we go up or down?

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I'd happily give you £20 at the end of the play off final.

Playoffs? 2nd place will do me :laugh:

K we are on.

Anyone else interested? Willing to put up to 1k on it. That will pay for me to watch about 4 away games. Will pay up early if we look doomed

Astute said:

Try again.
Lets put it another way, how many Div3 players could make the step up to the Championship?

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Not many, which is why they've got us there.

go on then Astute, ive got a tenner that says theres no chance at all of us finishing in the top 12.
hope im wrong but..........