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Serious question about ACL, CCC (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter The Gentleman
  • Start date Oct 25, 2013
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bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #141
Grendel said:
We didn't pay rent at Highfield road.
Click to expand...

Wow that building company was really generous letting us play in their ground for free don't you think?
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #142
shmmeee said:
How many times, no money has ever gone to the council. If you've got a point, don't ruin it with needless in accuracies.
Click to expand...

That is true.
Instead the profit has been reinvested in the facillities - which means the net asset value of ACL has gone up whereby the value of CCC's shares have gone up.
 

rondog1973

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #143
Olympic football and England U21's are not international events, no?
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #144
shmmeee said:
And the fact remains, that as soon as the club entered serious negotiations the rent was cut by 67%, then again to 12.5% of the original deal. It was at this point Sisu took the club to Northampton.
Click to expand...

I don't really find percentages interesting. It's pretty much like statistics (although I am a sucker for football stats).
Are the numbers even comparable? Does the original rent include matchday cost? And wasn't the £150k offer exclusive matchday cost?
But even that is not really relevant, is it?

The only interesting question is: Is the overall deal is enough to make sure the club is long term viable and in support of the fans ambitions of a return to PL.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #145
bigfatronssba said:
Wow that building company was really generous letting us play in their ground for free don't you think?
Click to expand...

Selling the ground and renting back is different to a normal arrangement.

Do you know details? I don't. Was it £1 million every year or just as quoted the final year. What did we receive for the sale?

The fact PWKH used this final year as an assessment of rental value is to me very telling.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #146
Only after idiot Richardson sold it and then had to rent it back.

Grendel said:
We didn't pay rent at Highfield road.
Click to expand...
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #147
Olympics will never happen again. When was the last U21 game? It's an empty FOOTBALL stadium so really they need to attract football (and rugby) events.

rondog1973 said:
Olympic football and England U21's are not international events, no?
Click to expand...
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #148
torchomatic said:
Olympics will never happen again. When was the last U21 game? It's an empty FOOTBALL stadium so really they need to attract football (and rugby) events.
Click to expand...

October 2009. Interestingly the under 21's have also played games at stadium MKdons in the same year.

Just looking at the 2013-15 u21 fixtures, they have already played at the Majeski, brammell lane and Portman road, then are scheduled to play at MK Dons (again) and then the New Meadow.

The new meadow must be a world class international venue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #149
stupot07 said:
The new meadow must be a world class international venue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

Nah it has 4 stands that all look the same.
 

ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #150
torchomatic said:
Olympics will never happen again. When was the last U21 game? It's an empty FOOTBALL stadium so really they need to attract football (and rugby) events.
Click to expand...

agreed... if only SISU would bring them home....and end this nonsense

Im off to Walsall now with my boy....
PUSB's
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #151
The Gentleman said:
New to this posting but have been reading for a bit but wanted to ask a serious question to the likes of Grendel, Fernando, Torch, Hill83, Edgy and Robon to name some. What is it that ACL/CCC have done that is so bad to cop what they get from you lot continually. Don't bother coming back with smart arse remarks because this is a genuine question.
Click to expand...

I'm no fan of SISU or their methods but I think the simple answer to your question is that ACL/CCC have exploited the club when it was going through a difficult period with no more regard to its future or its fans than SISU have shown.
 
Last edited: Oct 26, 2013

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #152
Grendel said:
Selling the ground and renting back is different to a normal arrangement.

Do you know details? I don't. Was it £1 million every year or just as quoted the final year. What did we receive for the sale?

The fact PWKH used this final year as an assessment of rental value is to me very telling.
Click to expand...

so we did pay rent at highfield road then, you really should make your mind up before you start spouting misleading comments in the hope you don't get found out.
 
Last edited: Oct 26, 2013

rondog1973

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #153
torchomatic said:
Olympics will never happen again. When was the last U21 game? It's an empty FOOTBALL stadium so really they need to attract football (and rugby) events.
Click to expand...
The point is, it is a venue capable of staging international events, as it has previously demonstrated.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #154
The Gentleman said:
New to this posting but have been reading for a bit but wanted to ask a serious question to the likes of Grendel, Fernando, Torch, Hill83, Edgy and Robon to name some. What is it that ACL/CCC have done that is so bad to cop what they get from you lot continually. Don't bother coming back with smart arse remarks because this is a genuine question.
Click to expand...

They charged a destitute club a completely unfair rent for 8 years. The end.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #155
fernandopartridge said:
They charged a destitute club a completely unfair rent for 8 years. The end.
Click to expand...

Just like we had single players getting paid half of what the rent was. Yet it always seems to come down to the rent to some.
 

covmark

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #156
Samo said:
I'm no fan of SISU or their methods but I think the simple answer to your question is that ACL/CCC have exploited the club when it was going through a difficult period with no more regard to its future or its fans than SISU have shown.
Click to expand...
bang on
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #157
Astute said:
Just like we had single players getting paid half of what the rent was. Yet it always seems to come down to the rent to some.
Click to expand...

Yes, we paid players far too much, but that shouldn't hide the fact that rent was too high.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #158
rondog1973 said:
The point is, it is a venue capable of staging international events, as it has previously demonstrated.
Click to expand...

So is meadow lane
 
P

PWKH

New Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #159
It seems that the greater distance from the original post the less accurate is the paraphrased quotation. So, some repetition to provide some clarification.

The sale of HR was c2000. The costs at HR that i quoted as being the same as the 2005 rent were for the last years, not the last year. The agreement to rent the Ricoh was signed in 2003. The rent negotiations between CCFC and ACL took place between 2003 and 2005. The Chairman of CCFC was a director of ACL. There was also another CCFC shareholder/director as director of ACL. It is difficult to understand the suggestion that CCFC were forced to do anything. For the CCFC directors paying the same for the Ricoh as they did for HR was getting more for their money than they had before. They felt that they had done well. The fact that their business was scarily close to catastrophic insolvency all the time was something they lived with. The rent and licence fee were far from the top of their list of attempted economies.
The rent and licence fee payable by CCFC in 2005 was not £1.2m. It was c£948,000.

We can all make brilliant and sensible judgements with the benefit of hindsight: for me, to have rejected the sliding scale rent and licence fee was bone-headed. I thought so, and said so at the time. I still think so.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #160
Fair enough P. I have always highlighted the damage caused by the previous administration as well as the current.
Not clear why the request for a rent reduction circa 2006 was rejected by ACL though.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #161
Astute said:
Just like we had single players getting paid half of what the rent was. Yet it always seems to come down to the rent to some.
Click to expand...

It doesn't excuse the rent in the same way the rent doesn't excuse the wages.
 
P

PWKH

New Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #162
fernandopartridge said:
Fair enough P. I have always highlighted the damage caused by the previous administration as well as the current.
Not clear why the request for a rent reduction circa 2006 was rejected by ACL though.
Click to expand...

The discussion around a sliding scale rent was in 2006. The lease and licence weren't actually signed until March 2006. These discussions were before and after the lease and licence were signed. It was only McGinnity and Hover who were absolutely against a sliding scale rent. They would not believe that it was possible for the Club to be relegated: it was only possible to be promoted. When Hover left and they were stuck with Fletcher there was never a chance that anything remotely sensible would be achieved. What gets overlooked is that it was, and is, important for ACL to have sensible arrangements with all its tenants. It is a pity that the tenants in this case were not sensible.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #163
Today for the first time since 30th April 2005 I went to where HR was and showed my son. Made me really sad.

The Ricoh should never have been built in the first place.

PWKH said:
It seems that the greater distance from the original post the less accurate is the paraphrased quotation. So, some repetition to provide some clarification.

The sale of HR was c2000. The costs at HR that i quoted as being the same as the 2005 rent were for the last years, not the last year. The agreement to rent the Ricoh was signed in 2003. The rent negotiations between CCFC and ACL took place between 2003 and 2005. The Chairman of CCFC was a director of ACL. There was also another CCFC shareholder/director as director of ACL. It is difficult to understand the suggestion that CCFC were forced to do anything. For the CCFC directors paying the same for the Ricoh as they did for HR was getting more for their money than they had before. They felt that they had done well. The fact that their business was scarily close to catastrophic insolvency all the time was something they lived with. The rent and licence fee were far from the top of their list of attempted economies.
The rent and licence fee payable by CCFC in 2005 was not £1.2m. It was c£948,000.

We can all make brilliant and sensible judgements with the benefit of hindsight: for me, to have rejected the sliding scale rent and licence fee was bone-headed. I thought so, and said so at the time. I still think so.
Click to expand...
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #164
What were the exact proposals put forward for the sliding scale rent?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #165
torchomatic said:
Today for the first time since 30th April 2005 I went to where HR was and showed my son. Made me really sad.

The Ricoh should never have been built in the first place.
Click to expand...

Why? Because you said so?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #166
No. Because it's caused us nothing but grief. A soulless bowl. Still wish we were back there though.

valiant15 said:
Why? Because you said so?
Click to expand...
 

covmark

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #167
valiant15 said:
Why? Because you said so?
Click to expand...
no, because we wouldn't be in this shite state of affairs.
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #168
torchomatic said:
No. Because it's caused us nothing but grief. A soulless bowl. Still wish we were back there though.
Click to expand...

I dont disagree there. Id even buy you a beer in the bar.
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #169
covmark said:
no, because we wouldn't be in this shite state of affairs.
Click to expand...

We were fucked the minute we were relegated out of the prem.
 

covmark

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #170
valiant15 said:
We were fucked the minute we were relegated out of the prem.
Click to expand...
agreed, then spending 5m on lee Hughes wasn't the wisest move
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #171
Hey don't forget the pound lol.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #172
valiant15 said:
Hey don't forget the pound lol.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The fee was just 5 million too much. The club is a basket case and has been for 15 years. Succession of idiotic decisions.
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #173
fernandopartridge said:
Agreed. The fee was just 5 million too much. The club is a basket case and has been for 15 years. Succession of idiotic decisions.
Click to expand...

Blimey we agree! There's so much id love to change with ccfc if i could go back in time.
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 26, 2013
  • #174
fernandopartridge said:
Agreed. The fee was just 5 million too much. The club is a basket case and has been for 15 years. Succession of idiotic decisions.
Click to expand...

At least we sold him before he was banged up.
 
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