skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
When was the railways nationalised well past WW1? WW2?
The railway was nationalised well past world war 1 and then even during brief privatisation was significantly reduced in terms of operators.
Many moderate and traditional right of centre countries have a national public transport policy
I’m mocking Corbyn for being all of a sudden centralist on a specific issue. Come on Tony can’t you find the answer on Wiki?
WTO is not the be-all & end-all.
And because nothing like Brexit has happened before...all these 'experts' are all expert in the past & are giving informed speculation, which yes carries more credibility than most. But don't take it as read!
And again...everybody wants a deal. One which suits THEM. But everybody deep down probably recognises that no-deal would be only slightly better than accepting a really shitty deal. Hence the relevant parties negotiate...which is what they are doing. People getting their knickers in a twist without knowing the detail are simply wasting their time imo...no amount of knicker twisting by you or I will affect the outcome.
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When was the railways nationalised well past WW1? WW2?
WTO is not the be-all & end-all.
And because nothing like Brexit has happened before...all these 'experts' are all expert in the past & are giving informed speculation, which yes carries more credibility than most. But don't take it as read!
And again...everybody wants a deal. One which suits THEM. But everybody deep down probably recognises that no-deal would be only slightly better than accepting a really shitty deal. Hence the relevant parties negotiate...which is what they are doing. People getting their knickers in a twist without knowing the detail are simply wasting their time imo...no amount of knicker twisting by you or I will affect the outcome.
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It’s not a mystery just because no one has ever left the EU before,
Tony you said they were only nationalised during the war years.
I was merely pointing out that the nationalisation pre the Great War continued beyond 1918 and even then on return to privatisation companies weee forced to merge to get an operations permit.
You’ve stated this is a core socialist principal. I do not agree with you. There are many countries who have a right of centre culture who’ve had a public transport system for decades.
When do you think there was last a real socialist Labour Party Tony?
Who then? Are you counting overseas territories? I bet you are.Better get back onto Wiki Tony
Who then? Are you counting overseas territories? I bet you are.
Tony you said no one has ever left the Eu before
So overseas territories then. Like I said.
Which countries have left the EU? It’s a simple question.So when you said no one has left the EU what did you mean? The uk?
Which countries have left the EU? It’s a simple question.
Well one country has Tony I’ll keave you to your favourite friend to find who
"WTO is not the be-all & end-all." - If we don't leave with a deal we will be trading under WTO rules, that's fact.
"And again...everybody wants a deal. One which suits THEM" - maybe, but every country has to submit a schedule to the WTO, (which then has to be ratified by all other members). You cannot move away from the terms of that schedule with another country until both parties have signed a trade deal.
You cannot move away from the terms of that schedule to help or hinder a particular trading partner. Look how long trade deals take, we will be trading under WTO rules with tariffs imposed with many countries with whom we are now doing free trade with for quite some time, look how long trade deals take to negotiate.
CETA took 7 years, OK, that was a block of 28 countries negotiating.
The average US trade deal takes 4 years to implement. We're not going to be trading freely with the rest of the world for some time if we don't sigh a deal.
If there's anything I've written that's incorrect I'd be glad to hear why.
It is not a hoax Tony. It is a reality...a factBrexit hasn’t happened before but people trading with the EU on WTO terms has and still does. You don’t think people have looked at that, compared it to free trade as an EU member and drawn a conclusion based on actual events? You seem to think that they’ve stuck a finger up in the air based on no one leaving the EU before. There’s live, real and tangible evidence for drawing a conclusion on a no deal brexit. It’s not a mystery just because no one has ever left the EU before, plenty have never joined and trade with the EU on WTO terms as a point of reference. Life outside the EU on WTO looks like A, life within the EU looks like B. The no one has ever left the EU argument is a hoax.
It is not a hoax Tony. It is a reality...a fact
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1. We don't know what exactly will happen - this is a unique situation
2. As 5th largest economy in the world...I'd be most surprised if the wheels were not put into motion behind the scenes,immediately post referendum result, for a no-deal
3. The will is there to make a deal - it will happen
That's my opinion. From the day I accepted the result of the referendum & the fact we are leaving nobody has yet thrown anything into the mix that has changed my opinion. Seversl things have made me question myself...but none have changed my mind.
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I didn’t mean in the literal sense (although you may want to point that out to Grendull). I mean in the sense that no one can say no one has done it before so no one can predict what WTO will mean for the U.K. with regards to Europe. Lots of people trade with the EU on WTO terms. There’s a precedent. It is possible to say we have A as EU members and we’ll lose B as non EU members on WTO terms. It’s not a mystery what either mean it’s happening day in day out. It’s actually one of the few things people can say with conviction, it’s not even a guess.
we can know a lot more if we go under WTO terms in the event of a no deal because the conditions we would be trading under the day after we leave will be set in stone at least in the short to medium term. .
If there's a deal then we can't be sure until the terms of the deal are known. We may even end up in the customs union or end up with a lengthy transition period. That would put a different perspective on things.
My questions are relating purely to a no deal which is looking more likely although that may be just posturing from the various parties though I get the feeling it isn't, you think we'll get a deal and I sincerely hope you're right. The thought of our economy's success hinging on the negotiating skills of Liam Fox makes me shiver.
Yes - you miss another option (because it is positive) that C other non-EU member want to work with & do increased business with us!
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Yes - you miss another option (because it is positive) that C other non-EU member want to work with & do increased business with us!
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My bad missed out the word 'might'...but since you ask China & Australia have indicated future deals in the offing most recently.Which ones?
My bad missed out the word 'might'...but since you ask China & Australia have indicated future deals in the offing most recently.
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You're asking the wrong personAustralia is also in talks with the EU on a free trade agreement. They’ve also said any deal with us is likely to be similar so I’m not sure why we need to leave the EU to get a deal with Australia. Although to be fair you are correct in saying that they have voiced an appetite to do a deal with us.
China is a difficult one because they infringe things like intellectual rights without thinking about it so it’s a harder nut to crack for a large trading group like the EU or indeed the US as the current trade war confirms. Question is how balanced will it be?
So the EU would be better off?so give me a link or a name then. Why are we going to be better off ripping up our existing trade deals and going under the WTO? Just give me something by one of these gifted creators you mention.
So the EU would be better off?
Because as soon as they decide they want a free trade deal it will be agreed on. If they want to punish people....or just want our money each year however much damage it may cause all over Europe then WTO rules it is.
How immigrants affect jobs and wagesYes, indeed we do. Just read this, but it is written by experts so is probably crap.
For the likes of Bazza and Astute:
Immigration myths that fuelled Brexit blown apart by major government commissioned report
Head out of my arse?When are you going to pull your head out of your arse?
The 27 are united in protecting the single market. It’s at the front of their thoughts. The only reason you feel they want to punish us is because you have no grasp on what is actually happened and you buy the empty rhetoric of brexit backers who always warned us that the EU is a protectionist organisation. It was never going to be any other way.
I agree with you in principle. I voted remain, if given the chance again I would vote leave because I respect Democracy.I don't like the EU I think its needs to be reformed, we should be doing that from within. I also think that we will struggle outside of the EU and it is in their best interest to ensure that we do, to say to member states 'See what happens when you go it alone?' The only ones that ever said we would get a deal were the Brexiteers. I am aware that people had different reasons to remain and leave and you have to respect personal opinion, its not all about the economy, until it collapses. I do think at some point we will apply for membership again, but we will lose our currency and our veto. I compare our situation to Stormy Daniels (well and truly fucked!) but I really hope I am wrong.You can moan, nobody has said differently, but it's happening, give it a chance and it might work. There was nothing in this vote saying it was forever. If in 10 years time people think differently and want to re-enter, I'm sure we'll be welcomed back, but let's see how this one goes before trying to derail it.
So the EU would be better off?
Because as soon as they decide they want a free trade deal it will be agreed on. If they want to punish people....or just want our money each year however much damage it may cause all over Europe then WTO rules it is.
Head out of my arse?
How about a reality check for you?
Those who take money out of the EU want us to continue giving them money. Those who like us put money into the EU want us to continue to put billions in each year. So of course they all want us to stay in.
So come on then Einstein. How would a free trade deal be against the single market? You would think it was us that sells twice the amount to them than we buy.
Why the UK trade deficit with the EU is woeful and widening | Larry ElliottIf you need to ask the last question then the situation really is beyond you. You’re basically dismissing the leave argument on trade and you don’t understand that. I’m going to give you the best free advice again. Probably best you sit this one out.
You use the trade deficit in a context like it has a relevance. Trade with the EU equates to something like 13% of the U.K. economy, EU trade with the U.K. equates to about 4% of the EU’s economy. That 4% is also shared amongst the 27 members so when you break it down to each member you’re talking about a percentage of a percentage. Why is France going to accept a deal that sets a benchmark for Australian wine to come into the EU tariff free at the expense of their own wine industry based on a percentage of a percentage? Why are Spain going to accept a deal that sets a benchmark for non EU growers of citrus fruit to bring citrus fruit into the EU at the expense of their own farming industry based on a percentage of a percentage? The story is the same for all members of the EU. It’s not about punishing us it’s about protecting the single market to protect their own interests. This was all pointed out in the campaigns. You seem to forget that this was a large part of the leave campaign that we couldn’t change the way they are as members. Do you seriously think that we exert more influence by leaving? That’s basically what you’re saying. You’re delusional.
Why the UK trade deficit with the EU is woeful and widening | Larry Elliott
Motor vehicle trade between the UK and its main EU partners | European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA)
So what influence do we have in the EU?
Yet we have trade around the world growing at pace. Being free from the EU rules will help it to continue.
UK exports to non EU countries continue to outstrip EU
But as you say it is the UK that will suffer and nobody else. So I looked at Spain first
Spanish exports already feeling the brunt of Brexit
Or how about Germany? There biggest export is cars. We are one of their biggest export areas. A no deal would hurt it badly.
No-deal Brexit ‘adds €2bn’ to German cars
So the UK buys about a fifth of the cars Germany exports. Can you see a problem there?
You make out that nobody in the EU will feel anything. But it depends on what they sell to us.
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