Season Ticket loan/mortgage (1 Viewer)

[oldskyblue58]

Firstly I would like to say thank you to those who replied to a question I raised regarding the apparent mortgage of season ticket income. The claims surrounding these apparent loans have been bugging me. So what is it we know

well firstly it was made public by an article in the CT 11th July 2011 http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...e-payments-and-season-tickets-92746-29031366/ (Cheers Jack for the link)
this would appear to be the only source of "facts" regarding the season ticket "mortgage"

so what is said

It refers to next season in the article so that would be the 2011/12 season judging by the date of the article (not as some here seem to imply next seson 2012/13). So thats one piece of misinformation put to bed.

So what is actually going on .....

taking it away from football altogether consider this .....

You want to buy a new car. You take a trip to Joe Bloggs Motors find a car you want and decide to purchase. Your choices are to pay outright in cash, pay on credit card or to take out a finance agreement to cover the cost. Paying by cash or credit card gives Joe Bloggs Motors the money for the car immediately, no loan is created and you get the car. However you cannot afford that and take out the finance agreement with ABC loans finance Ltd. You get the car but you have a loan but that loan isnt with Joe Bloggs Motors it is with ABC Loans finance, effectively the garage sells the debt you have to the finance company which gives the garage the money upfront, you the car and the finance company a legal debt that you owe to ABC not the garage. All very normal.

Now substitute Season ticket for car, CCFC for the garage, and Season Ticket Credit Ltd for the finance company.

CCFC have not I am pretty sure mortgaged the season ticket income. They have sold the debt to STC ltd who paid a discounted amount to CCFC up front. Discounted because the payment scheme is on 0% finance so they make their money buying say £1m of season ticket debt for a lesser figure of perhaps £900k (its a guess No one knows the figure outside of the club and finance company). As someone who has taken advantage of the payment scheme then i can tell you I owe STC Limited not CCFC. If i default it is the finance company that will take action not CCFC, it is STC that take the finance risk and own the debt not CCFC. There is no mortgage on the season ticket income, there is no debt owed by fans and owned by CCFC to secure it.

So CCFC would be left with cash from season tickets bought outright (cash or credit card) and the funds received from STC Ltd. Why would anyone then mortgage money they already had to receive less (because of finance charges) than they had in the first place? Just wouldnt happen.

Also in the article is that we mortgaged the League prize money - check the rules this has always been a no no. We would have been under a transfer embargo. Did we actually sign players - yes. You are not allowed to mortgage League transfer money but the league could withold it and apply it directly to football & HMRC debts - no evidence of this either.

So you have to ask why print such an article which is put forward as fact? Who benefits and who is misleading and using the fans by making the claims? There is no evidence of such a mortgage and if looked at logically and properly the claims do not stack up. SISU cant rebutt the claims because no one would or want to believe them - mud sticks. There is no mortgage on season ticket income 2011/12 or 2012/13 in my opinion

Dont get me wrong I dont want SISU at the club, I will and have criticise(d) much of what they have done. However if we are going to chip at them to weaken and remove them do it from firm ground, anything else weakens our arguement and we know we are right - they need to go. Spurious claims peddled to the fans as fact by some parties do not help

 

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[SkyBlueBlood]

That is not how it works. You have described how the system should work.

However, CCFC have taken a loan using future season ticket sales as collateral, which is nothing to do with the direct debit scheme. This means that we will not have any season ticket income next season unless we go back and borrow again from 2012/13.

A recipe for financial metdown. Well done SISU you have declared the desperation card.

Bye Bye.

 

[oldskyblue58]

and your evidence for this is ? Which is actually my point people make the claims but dont produce the evidence. The article (the only evidence so far given) specifically refers to 2011/12 season

Of course there is season ticket income for next year, you are mixing up revenue with cashflow.

So on top of money up front on the direct debit scheme, the sale of Prozone, the wage reductions, the sale of players and add ons from previous sales, the sale in full of season tickets bought in cash/credit card, plus SISU's claims of putting more money in, as a company in financial crisis and with very poor credit rating they have mortgaged next years undetermined income?

Happy to admit if wrong but not until there is actually some evidence

 

[crowsnest]

So you have to ask why print such an article which is put forward as fact? Who benefits and who is misleading and using the fans by making the claims?

Keep going - you are getting there!

 

[ashbyjan]

So why when asked the late Clouting didn't take the opportunity to rebuff the claims or try to explain the actual situation? Just to say that the season tickets credit side is being handled by a third party and they have paid in advance for the contract - he didn't need to explain the exact numbers involved or what percentage was being discounted away as that would obviously be sensitive information. If you look on Zebra finances website they have similar deals in place with a host of other clubs so why not state that rather than be secretive or is there more to it? As for the mortgaging of the League money that would be even easier to deny but again wasn't done - article states that this was done before a change to the rules but again no denial from the club. They are there own worst enemies in this bullshit secrecy - is it any wonder no one trusts them any more? As for misleading the fans - surely by not giving them the facts I guess you would have to say that its SISU and the board that is misleading the fans, or doesn't that fit into some peoples bollox conspiracy theory.

 

[oldskyblue58]

To be honest, and as you know jan, I do not trust any of the current or past owners of CCFC or indeed have much trust in the white knight that is supposed to be saving us. Without exception they all use the fans for their own purposes.

 

[skybluejelly]

oldskyblue obviously you have a financial background, so just a question,if they have mortgaged the future sales which they may not have done..and they go into adminsistration would the loan still be applicable,or would the new owners be able to start with a clean sheet..and keep the season ticket money when it came in,.

many thanks if you do know the answer

 

[oldskyblue58]

oldskyblue obviusly you have a financial background, so just a question,if they have mortgaged the future sales which they may not have done..and they go into adminsistration would the loan still be applicable,or would the new owners be able to start with a clean sheet..and keep the season ticket money when it came in,.

many thanks if you do know the answer

would love to say yes or no but dont think it is that simple. I suspect that the mortgage if it existed would become an unsecured creditor once we went into administration because the asset it is apparently secured on doesnt actually exist until the tickets are sold. Would possibly depend on how a rescue deal is put together as to whether it remained payable or not.