SCONSET now own us.. could this pantomime get any worse? or are we about to sell??? (2 Viewers)

Sconset can go into Admin without it affecting SISU. Sconset can therefore wipe out the £30mill plus debts without carrying any penalty over to SISU.

Yes we are owned by Sconset - however SISU do not own sconset they manage it for their investors. The move has probably been made to tidy up the shareholdings and to spread the costs of running the funds better for the investors. Sconset is not a company it is an investment fund. The only way SISU lose out in any of this is that they may not get the management fees due.

We do not know if Sconset own the loans now or not so that may or may not have changed and still remains a major stumbling block to any deal being done

How can they be taking any money out there isnt any to take out. Any which way you look at it the "investors" in SBS&L stand to lose up to £30m - hardly call that making a profit. If they put the loans in another company that goes bust then they lose. If they move everything across except the loans then SBS&L has no income or assets so they lose their money. If it stays as it is they could lose their money.

Also taking funds out to the detriment of other creditors, or moving debts to a shell company that goes bust could be challenged in court by other creditors or might well be seen as fraud

Dont think there is any real evidence of any deal being done in the next 16 days - but i suppose you never can tell. Cant see GH offering SISU or Sconset investors anything like enough for them to go

What SISU I think are trying to do is bring investors in to run the club but leave the loans in place. I also think that Sconset might be a way of putting the various investors in one pot not 5 and to ensure that not one investor has more than 10% of the pot thereby avoiding disclosure to the Football League

Oh and by the way CCFC Ltd owns the option on the stadium so they wont want that company going bust because the option will die with it.

Not trying to be negativer howzer but I dont see any evidence of much changing or why it would change right now. I think there are others here that see conspiracy round every corner, and become almost blind to the facts - they see things because they want to see them. Just my opinion and I could of course be wrong

WE WANT SCONSET OUT!? Time to make some new banners...

OSB in your learned opinion would their be time to push a deal through before the jan transfer window, I only ask as you have a better understanding than most. My company has just been bought out and the new owners take over jan 2, from start to finsh its taken about 3 weeks in all. Also could Sconsett have been set up as a vehicle for dividends to be paid into by future owners of the club untill SISU's original investment is grepaid in either whole or part.PUSB

Senior Vick from Alicante said:

OSB in your learned opinion would their be time to push a deal through before the jan transfer window, I only ask as you have a better understanding than most. My company has just been bought out and the new owners take over jan 2, from start to finsh its taken about 3 weeks in all. Also could Sconsett have been set up as a vehicle for dividends to be paid into by future owners of the club untill SISU's original investment is grepaid in either whole or part.PUSB

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Anything is possible but I doubt it would happen. If you take at face value that SISU have said i think that they have not talked to anyone lately then to get it done in 9 working days or 16 days total from now is pushing it. There is a lot of hard bargaining to be done on this one so i think the time scale is far too tight (if it is going to happen at all).

Dont think Sconset has been set up to do that .... they could have paid dividends to the funds anyway had they been in a position to do so. Would have to know whether the 5 funds have become part of Sconset (ie loans and shares in Sconset) before I could answer that really though. Dividends can only be paid however if a company has a positive balance sheet i dont think any of the group do have a positive so no dividend can be paid.

I wonder if it is possible that SISU hands the club or SBS&I via Sconsett to Hoff for a nominal amount but comes to some form of agreement on paying back the loans over time/promotion etc. If the loans have been separated from the the original funds ie: sconset owns SBS&L and can be sold as is and the loans are in place via original funds or new one. That way SISU divest themselves of the everyday ongoing losses but still have some hope of getting their loans back in the fullness of time. As things stand this will simply not happen any time soon as the club spirals ever downwards.

Sconset out

of course we're all assuming that talks haven't already taken place. given how much info we get out of the club for all we know the whole things been agreed already. that said I don't believe that to be the case from the snippets of info floating around, which you can choose to believe or not.

I can imagine a scenario where SISU thought they could cut expenditure and break even this season and then sell the club off but how now realised reveneues dropping rapidly and a relegation will mean a further drop and a less saleable club. maybe they've finally realised they've lost and are looking to get out, there's certainly been a lot of changes on the board which could be an indication something is happening. The removal of Ken, who clearly didn't want to work with Hoff, could also be an indication that something is happening. you could have a situation where Hoff is the only interested party but has made it clear if SISU have a sell off in Jan to try and get some money back he will pull out. Not sure how this would work or if it's even possible but could you have some sort of agreement in principal whereby despite the deal having not completed there is a block on SISU selling players eg: sell anyone and the deals off?

clearly we're all guessing and clutching at straws but that's about all we have at the moment.

Old Sky Blue..."And that includes Me too"
People see conspiracy round every corner because this is how Sisu have chosen to run their business regarding CCFC.
They have conspired to keep their identity in the shadows.
They have conspired to sell every player of any promise.
They have conspired to keep every day events away from the fans.
they have conspired to break the promises they made regarding incoming players.
and at this very moment are involved in a covert plan to shift the ownership of the Sky Blues to some far away Atol.
"Perhaps, now, you can see why the're not on my Christmas Card list"OSB.
Regards Tankie

La_Lucha said:

Sconset can go into Admin without it affecting SISU. Sconset can therefore wipe out the £30mill plus debts without carrying any penalty over to SISU.

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But I thought the £30m was pumped in by SISU (as trumpted by some post-ers and CCFC fans, like Torchomatic who swore blind that SISU had pumped millions into the club to keep us afloat) and therefore by going into admin wouldn't SISU be kissing bye-bye to their £30m????

I just don't know who has put in this £30m? Is it SISU's cash? Or a loan taken out by SISU? Or a loan taken out by SISU against the club...but what would they have used as assets???

It's investors that SISU are working on behalf of. SISU's investors would say goodbye to their cash if it went pop. OSB is the best one to explain all this, OSB please help in clear english for us simple folk.

Not saying they have done anything to foster any trust Tankie, just think sometimes folk are so angry at them that they miss the possibility that some action might actually be exactly what it seems to be. Not making excuses for them they made the situation for themselves just keeping an eye on all the possibilities - and only believe something when it actually happens

La_Lucha said:

It's investors that SISU are working on behalf of. SISU's investors would say goodbye to their cash if it went pop. OSB is the best one to explain all this, OSB please help in clear english for us simple folk.

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The loans are from the investment funds that SISU administer.

LeamingtonBootBoy said:

But I thought the £30m was pumped in by SISU (as trumpted by some post-ers and CCFC fans, like Torchomatic who swore blind that SISU had pumped millions into the club to keep us afloat) and therefore by going into admin wouldn't SISU be kissing bye-bye to their £30m???? I just don't know who has put in this £30m? Is it SISU's cash? Or a loan taken out by SISU? Or a loan taken out by SISU against the club...but what would they have used as assets???

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I thought the way it worked was that SISU, as a hedge fund, doesn't provide the funding from its own bank vault, but from a mutual pot that was funded by multiple investors, which would make SISU a glorified middle man. If the club is a loss-maker then surely it is ownership that is investing money to pay the bills and keep the club running. This investment is filed as an ongoing IOU note to be repaid in the future (initially with the hope of promotion to the PL). If that is the case, then SISU would be fair in saying they have invested a lot of money into the club (not enough and they've led the club badly, but that's another story).

I'm not sure if that's how it is, but it would seem to make some sense given the unlikeliness of getting support from the bank due to lack of collateral, as you pointed out.

The 30m has been put into the SBS&L as a loan by the investors in 5 investment funds that are managed by SISU. Originally it was much lower at around 9m when they bought the club but has gradually increased over the years to a reported 30m + now. Basically the club has more payments out than in and the investors in the funds have been persuaded by the fund managers (SISU) to cover the difference in order to protect their on going loans. Basically if the SBS&L group goes into administration then because there are not many assets then the loans would become a bad debt and the investors could lose nearly all their money.

Couple points to note. All assets that may exist are subject to a charge in favour of SBS&L - so if CCFC holdings went bust then the training ground it owns would then be transferred and retained by SBS&L . Inportant because the loans by the investors are in SBS&L not CCFC.

They cant let CCFC go at the moment because that is where the option to buy the ACL shares is and I dont think there is a chance that the Charity would allow them to transfer it

SISU have no money invested in CCFC or SBS&L - they are only fund managers who act on behalf of the investors. In part their credibility rests on turning the investment around. However I suspect that SBS&L is only a small part of a huge pot of investments so the loss would not be catastrophic for most of their investors because other parts of the pot will be making profits

dealing with the loses which division we are in makes the club more attractive to investors. So if breakeven that is far better than 7m losses - and SISU could get investors to put money into a financially stable company or even sell it and do a deal on the loans to ensure a return

Could the club go into administration yes certainly .... if it did could the investors lose their loan made - yes ....... is it likely to happen any time soon - no......

The easiest way to understand it is if you imagine a pension fund (at least the old final salary versions)

All investors contribute - The fund is typically managed by a pension fund company and invested in a range of diversified investments - generally for long periods at relatively low risk

The hedge fund concept is very similar, except the risk and therefore return are increased - therefore a loss on CCFC will if managed correctly be hedged against other investments, so overall relatively painless to the investors - as they would only see the total value of investment rise or fall

eg if the total fund was say £1bn, of which 30m was invested in CCFC, that is a 3% fall on their investment, but for every CCFC in their pot, there will be a success story that will more than make up for the 3%

By getting out of CCFC what they can, they will seek to limit the 3% to say 2% - but as per the name its a hedge fund - hedging risky investments against each other using very ruthless methods in the case of SISU

oldskyblue58 said:

Anything is possible but I doubt it would happen. If you take at face value that SISU have said i think that they have not talked to anyone lately then to get it done in 9 working days or 16 days total from now is pushing it. There is a lot of hard bargaining to be done on this one so i think the time scale is far too tight (if it is going to happen at all).

Dont think Sconset has been set up to do that .... they could have paid dividends to the funds anyway had they been in a position to do so. Would have to know whether the 5 funds have become part of Sconset (ie loans and shares in Sconset) before I could answer that really though. Dividends can only be paid however if a company has a positive balance sheet i dont think any of the group do have a positive so no dividend can be paid.

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For reference SBSL's shares are owned by:

Name Individual Share Value
SCONSET CAPITAL LP 13,150 ORDINARY GBP 1.00
LEONARD BRODY 548 ORDINARY GBP 1.00