I find it astonishing that when it comes to a new ground etc. Fisher is (quite rightly!) disbelieved, but when he mentions about the crystallising of losses, this is automatically accepted.As for crystallising the losses - which losses?
The original investment, £28m, made by the 5 private equity funds would have to be valued each year for the annual investment report. So its down grading has to have been known for years, Its just a question of when the loss is physically taken. What we don't know is if the £28m is all or a small part of the whole fund (- in any case I would argue the £28m wasn't all in cash, nearer to £18m in my opinion actually invested) so the loss could have been cushioned by profits elsewhere. The £28m is stuck in SBS&L not Otium which could be a problem for the investors if CCFC sold but is it new losses and unknown? The liability/loss to investors is already gone in reality, their only hope of a return is the legal actions by SBS&L because anything CCFC is charged to ARVO.
There is a possibility to consider that the original investors were repaid a pittance in the £ some time ago and that the actual purchase price is very little for the newer current investors in SBS&L (ie most of this loss already crystallised years ago so is not currently a big problem for SISU now). It could have been as simple as moving investors to more profitable funds. Due to the lack of transparency only SISU know the loss to come from any sale of CCFC that will hit the shareholders in SBS&L. It could be nothing like the £28m that we expect
The ARVO investment in Otium would also be assessed annually, but is secured on any assets in CCFC and on paper at least earning an income (interest accrued but not paid out). It would therefore have a value because of the assets it is secured on. I suspect settling ARVO is the key to any deal, their liability stood at £8m capital plus £4m interest 31-05-2016 accounts. However the group financial statements disclose that the amount put in by ARVO is around £16m in total over the years since 2012. A settlement well above any offer so far is required by ARVO I would think.
Ryton can be used to negotiate in any settlement but if there is already a presale agreement or it can be moved to another company then its value in a 3rd party bid is not a lot as ARVO already control it. Seppala could (but hasn't said anything) simply say we will sell you all the football assets but Ryton not for sale - that would leave the cash required for a sale still the same, more than the 2.2m plus uncertain add ons
It may be that the particular investors involved see these figures as pocket money - we don't know. They took a chance and this didn't turn out well but other "bets" have. In which case crystallising losses is not a problem. That leaves sheer bloody mindedness and stubbornness as the reasons for no sale - far harder to deal with if no financial hurt occurring
If CCFC through managing the cash flows does not require further funding from SISU, requires only a non binding letter annually to auditors that the loans wont be withdrawn and the owners will continue to try to source funding then CCFC has been parked to survive on its own resources and it is no longer hurting the owners. There is no need as yet to sell, and certainly no need to sell at a low value. It is really only promotion to the Championship that would cause the owners problems in terms of having to finance larger expenditure.
The only pressure point looming would seem to be having a home ground in Coventry. BPA if it ever were to be brought to fruition wont happen before the end of the Ricoh term so it is either a rolling deal with Wasps or pointing a finger at Wasps/CCC saying CCFC were forced out (grounds for legal action?) so EFL will back any alternative. Of course if MR makes the team successful then there is an element of comfort there for the owners they can utilise in any negotiations and probably a harder job for the Hoffman consortium or others to buy in and a price increase in Seppala's eyes
I would suggest nothing is going to happen any time soon to change the owners
Seems to me CT claims that dialogue continues are a bit tenuous. The "dialogue" seems to be very one sided, with Seppala responding with a blunt not interested. Sending Seppala three bids rejected as unwelcome or insufficient and emails asking to meet that are refused is not really constructive or even first step dialogue between two parties is it?
Is she willing to sell at anything like what has been offered or at all? Not at the moment it would seem.
I find it astonishing that if you know someone has told a lie and then they say something that you haven't got a clue about you also have to accept that as a lie.I find it astonishing that when it comes to a new ground etc. Fisher is (quite rightly!) disbelieved, but when he mentions about the crystallising of losses, this is automatically accepted.
Me, OSB, Captain Dart and others have been calling this into question for ages, but it doesn't get traction.I find it astonishing that if you know someone has told a lie and then they say something that you haven't got a clue about you also have to accept that as a lie.
I honestly think this is how it’s been for several years now, and I believe the Finnish translation is “sisu”.That leaves sheer bloody mindedness and stubbornness as the reasons for no sale - far harder to deal with if no financial hurt occurring.
Some question you for believing anything he says if you mention the 3 weeks. It is all stupid really. And it doesn't help. And as I said we don't know if the same investors are still involved.Me, OSB, Captain Dart and others have been calling this into question for ages, but it doesn't get traction.
Why is that then they are all normal fans?
All white, mostly older generation. Nothing against any individuals and they may be best people for the job would just be nice to see a bit more diversity.
I have heard some very reliable rumours recently , but there is a post on the fans forum with photos etc , documentation blurred out for legal reasons. basically Hoffman Elliot and 2 other businessmen from Coventry have agreed a deal to take the club over , and there are a couple of things left to iron out still .
If it happens il accept the apologies later , if it don't then il apologies then
Any update on this Hoffman/Elliot agreed to deal to take over the club?
Just wondering like.
This is the crucial point, finding somewhere to play, the tipping point. Without that ccfc are valueless as it might not exist !lAwaiting the apology. FWIW I think Hoffman may resurrect the offer in 9 months when SISU are under pressure to find somewhere for us to play in 2018-2019.
Our goal should be to keep Coventry City alive, no matter what. To do that we have a duty to support the club, no matter how much we hate the owners.This is the crucial point, finding somewhere to play, the tipping point. Without that ccfc are valueless as it might not exist !l
I would guess that SISU will be banking on the club being promoted this season and potentially adding value. If this looks likely expect an interim deal to be struck with ACL/Wasps, as by that time JR2 will [hopefully] have been concluded, so they can maximise a sell off.Awaiting the apology. FWIW I think Hoffman may resurrect the offer in 9 months when SISU are under pressure to find somewhere for us to play in 2018-2019.
naughty bored boy tut tut tut !Any update on this Hoffman/Elliot agreed to deal to take over the club?
Just wondering like.
Dont honestly believe there is ransom value, they have burnt their bridges and upset the majority (apparently, nopm n all that), they cant be dumb enough to take the club out of the City again, there is absolutely zero gain, that would cost them money, they could and probably will negotiate a rolling contract to play at the Ricoh.Ccfc has no net value with or without a stadium deal. The value to Sisu is a ransom value.
I would recommend that any potential purchaser Hoffman or otherwise hold fire right now. There is no need to rush in.
And definitely should not do so for knee jerk reasons or to keep fans happy
Is Hoffman not a real prospective buyer?Dont honestly believe there is ransom value, they have burnt their bridges and upset the majority (apparently, nopm n all that), they cant be dumb enough to take the club out of the City again, there is absolutely zero gain, that would cost them money, they could and probably will negotiate a rolling contract to play at the Ricoh.
They wont fold the club as there is still a chance long term they may get a little back for very little outlay.
Hoffman and co, no matter when they make their bid, it has to be a significant improvement on the previous reported bids if they want to see movement on the clubs side.
I think we are stuck with SISU for a fair while more, i just hope Robins can do a good job and make us more attractive to real prospective buyers.
Not at the price that SISU want. I think that is why OSB used the term held to ransom.Is Hoffman not a real prospective buyer?
You better find a venue thenOur goal should be to keep Coventry City alive, no matter what. To do that we have a duty to support the club, no matter how much we hate the owners.
Ccfc has no net value with or without a stadium deal. The value to Sisu is a ransom value.
I would recommend that any potential purchaser Hoffman or otherwise hold fire right now. There is no need to rush in.
And definitely should not do so for knee jerk reasons or to keep fans happy
I believe any purchase would have to be a vanity buy or else you would run as fast as you could away from our club.Of course it also depends if the Hoffman bid is based on a "vanity acquisition" or heart rules the head approach apposed to a 100% business/accountancy decision.
In the main yep.I believe any purchase would have to be a vanity buy or else you would run as fast as you could away from our club.
Of course it also depends if the Hoffman bid is based on a "vanity acquisition" or heart rules the head approach apposed to a 100% business/accountancy decision.
So is there any new info after all these comments? No........ lolAny update on this Hoffman/Elliot agreed to deal to take over the club?
Just wondering like.
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