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Roald Dahl books (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Brighton Sky Blue
  • Start date Feb 20, 2023
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #1
Now to be edited to remove anything deemed ‘offensive’. I don’t really see what’s wrong with the originals to be honest

Roald Dahl books rewritten to remove language deemed offensive

Augustus Gloop now ‘enormous’ instead of ‘fat’, Mrs Twit no longer ‘ugly’ and Oompa Loompas are gender neutral
amp.theguardian.com
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #2
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Now to be edited to remove anything deemed ‘offensive’. I don’t really see what’s wrong with the originals to be honest

Roald Dahl books rewritten to remove language deemed offensive

Augustus Gloop now ‘enormous’ instead of ‘fat’, Mrs Twit no longer ‘ugly’ and Oompa Loompas are gender neutral
amp.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

Many years ago when people were moaning about this type of nonsense just getting out of control , people were told they were bigots and wrong ..

Now I'm just totally numb to it all .. it's all nonsense

Pathetic soft as shit society full of weirdos .. end of story

And it will continue to get worse and worse
 
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #3
It's nonsense, in fact it's worse than that, its dangerous.
 
Reactions: tisza, 100 miles from Cov., rob9872 and 3 others
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #4
These changes are just absurd. Augustus Gloop now to be ‘enormous’ rather than ‘fat’-the whole point is he’s a glutton!
 
Reactions: Otis, Bugsy and torchomatic

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #5
Evo1883 said:
Many years ago when people were moaning about this type of nonsense just getting out of control , people were told they were bigots and wrong ..

Now I'm just totally numb to it all .. it's all nonsense

Pathetic soft as shit society full of weirdos .. end of story

And it will continue to get worse and worse
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, this was a desicion taken by the publishers, an idiotic one right enough, but it's their product they can do as they wish. I think they might regret this.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #6
clint van damme said:
Just to be clear, this was a desicion taken by the publishers, an idiotic one right enough, but it's their product they can do as they wish. I think they might regret this.
Click to expand...

I can only think what Dahl would have to say on it. His books don’t need changing
 
Reactions: Ian1779 and Bugsy

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #7
Philip Pullman got it spot on today. Let them all go out of print. The only choice then would to read the original versions. No one will miss out as they sold millions, they would always be readily available for new readers.
 
Reactions: Otis and Brighton Sky Blue

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #8
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #9
clint van damme said:
It's nonsense, in fact it's worse than that, its dangerous.
Click to expand...

It is
 
Reactions: tisza and RegiswasGod

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #10
clint van damme said:
View attachment 28473
Click to expand...
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #11
Stop the world I want to get off.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #12
Even lefty wokey Brian Cox thinks it’s a new form of Macarthyism

I’d love to know if anyone on here supports this shite
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #13
Grendel said:
Even lefty wokey Brian Cox thinks it’s a new form of Macarthyism

I’d love to know if anyone on here supports this shite
Click to expand...

I have my money on someone
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #14
Puffin the publisher commissioned it, it's almost perfect advertising
 
Reactions: Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #15
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I have my money on someone
Click to expand...

And me
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #16
Grendel said:
Even lefty wokey Brian Cox thinks it’s a new form of Macarthyism

I’d love to know if anyone on here supports this shite
Click to expand...
I’m guessing only the people that will now go out and buy them. It’s just a nonsense.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #17
If it were me I'd be using it as a marketing ploy. Make these changes but then soon after reprint them with the original texts. Could see them sell quite a few original texts afterwards as people make a 'protest' and to show their feeling.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #18
Books have always been edited to reflect a change in society.
 
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S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #19
Seems pretty dumb, but seeing as it’s been met by near universal criticism then I can’t force myself to get too worried about What It All Means.
 
Reactions: Grendel

RegiswasGod

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2023
  • #20
An absolute joke. This current generation have absolutely no chance at life
 
Reactions: TomRad85

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #21
We've reached a new low in being offended. When children's books written by one of Britain's favourite authors are effectively censored because they "offend" then what's next ?
 
Reactions: RegiswasGod and TomRad85
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #22
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
We've reached a new low in being offended. When children's books written by one of Britain's favourite authors are effectively censored because they "offend" then what's next ?
Click to expand...

Those books were some of my favourite growing up. Thankfully still have all of them so as and when BSB Jnr wants to read they can have the originals.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #23
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
We've reached a new low in being offended. When children's books written by one of Britain's favourite authors are effectively censored because they "offend" then what's next ?
Click to expand...
A publisher voluntarily editing a new edition of a book in co-operation with the author’s estate (and getting roundly, rightly criticised for it) isn’t censorship.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #24
James and the it's not even that big wtf you body shaming for you bigot peach

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #25
SBT said:
A publisher voluntarily editing a new edition of a book in co-operation with the author’s estate (and getting roundly, rightly criticised for it) isn’t censorship.
Click to expand...

You're right, but it's still nonsense.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #26
clint van damme said:
You're right, but it's still nonsense.
Click to expand...
It is - I just think it’s maybe a bit hysterical to start writing off an entire generation over it.
 
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Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #27
SBT said:
A publisher voluntarily editing a new edition of a book in co-operation with the author’s estate (and getting roundly, rightly criticised for it) isn’t censorship.
Click to expand...
A publisher voluntarily editing his books ? Wow. How charitable of them .
His words have been removed from the text.

Someone needs to go through Shakespeare and a host of other authors to try and find what will be huge chunks in order to remove/ censor/"update"

There'll be lots that are deemed " unsuitable" and no doubt a queue a mile long of publishers who will ' volunteer' with the blessing of the author's estate.

Roald Dahl books will no longer contain stories written by the author in their entirety because they offend and have been censored, effectively, in order to placate those who want something to feel offended by.

If people find his books offensive I suggest they buy something else..
 
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S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #28
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Someone needs to go through Shakespeare and a host of other authors to try and find what will be huge chunks in order to remove/ censor/"update"
Click to expand...
If you’re worried about this being a slippery slope towards a time when Shakespeare plays are routinely edited and updated, then I have some deeply upsetting news for you.
 
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D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #29
SBT said:
It is - I just think it’s maybe a bit hysterical to start writing off an entire generation over it.
Click to expand...
Victorians expurgated Malory of sex and violence. Think they were also responsible for Chaucer not being Chaucer, too. Authors themselves have edited their texts during their own lifetimes - Dahl himself removed some overly racist content, the Oompa Loompas were originally African pygmies, rescued to this country for their own good and made to work at Wonka's factory. Here's some of the context to that... which was done in the 1970s.

I find it slightly odd I get the mocking laugh emoji for stating a fact, that editing of texts has always happened for contemporary sensibilities - it has. I make no judgement about whether it should or not in that statement. FWIW my own view is that many of the edits are so inconsequential as to not be worth discussing. Some do change the meaning and are maybe heavy handed - and of course the point of Dahl has always been that he would challenge, write childrens books but not for children, allow the introduction of critical thinking rather than a safe, saccharine version of life... and that's why he was popular, so to remove that takes away some of that very essence - it ties into a debate about childrens' literature that's been going on not just for years, but centuries - what's appropriate for children to read.

But, it has always happened! Grimm fairy tales over the years have waxed and waned in their depiction of violence and misogyny after all!
 
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #30
Deleted member 5849 said:
Victorians expurgated Malory of sex and violence. Think they were also responsible for Chaucer not being Chaucer, too. Authors themselves have edited their texts during their own lifetimes - Dahl himself removed some overly racist content, the Oompa Loompas were originally African pygmies, rescued to this country for their own good and made to work at Wonka's factory. Here's some of the context to that... which was done in the 1970s.

I find it slightly odd I get the mocking laugh emoji for stating a fact, that editing of texts has always happened for contemporary sensibilities - it has. I make no judgement about whether it should or not in that statement. FWIW my own view is that many of the edits are so inconsequential as to not be worth discussing. Some do change the meaning and are maybe heavy handed - and of course the point of Dahl has always been that he would challenge, write childrens books but not for children, allow the introduction of critical thinking rather than a safe, saccharine version of life... and that's why he was popular, so to remove that takes away some of that very essence - it ties into a debate about childrens' literature that's been going on not just for years, but centuries - what's appropriate for children to read.

But, it has always happened! Grimm fairy tales over the years have waxed and waned in their depiction of violence and misogyny after all!
Click to expand...

Modern copies of Of Mice and Men still contain racist language, as do those of To Kill A Mockingbird. Both to reflect the contexts in which they were written.

Calling Augustus Gloop enormous instead of fat doesn’t serve much purpose.
 
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D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #31
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Modern copies of Of Mice and Men still contain racist language, as do those of To Kill A Mockingbird. Both to reflect the contexts in which they were written.

Calling Augustus Gloop enormous instead of fat doesn’t serve much purpose.
Click to expand...
Doesn't serve much purpose, but also not really worth discussing as it's so inconsequential as to be irrelevant. If you want to complain about some of the changes in the Witches however, and I'm with you all the way brother.

And often when texts become canon, rather than widely read as entertainment, is when they revert to how they were - the author becomes venerated as author, the sex and violence reappears in Malory, the Wife of Bath is allowed to become bawdy and sluttish, the casual racist is allowed a voice - when nobody reads Dahl for enjoyment, we'll be back to African pygmies before you know it.

As it happens, to stick To Kill a Mockingbird in there is disengenuous because of course its whole point is to critically challenge the convention, not to uncritically re-enforce the stereotype. That's why it's canon, after all!

And even that doesn't avoid censorship, even if it's nonsensical censorship: To Kill a Mockingbird removed from Virginia schools for racist language

If only they read it.

What exactly is a n—– lover?”

“It’s hard to explain. Ignorant, trashy people use it when they think somebody’s favoring Negroes over and above themselves. It’s slipped into usage with some people like ourselves, when they want a common, ugly term to label somebody.”
 
Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2023
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Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #32
SBT said:
If you’re worried about this being a slippery slope towards a time when Shakespeare plays are routinely edited and updated, then I have some deeply upsetting news for you.
Click to expand...
I'm not worried at all, but we live in times when a hyper sensitive minority seem to dictate what I can or can't have access to read in Roald Dahl books.
I don't read Shakespeare because I find the language difficult, but I don't demand it to be rewritten in modern language to accommodate my lack of understanding. I accept it for what it is even though certain aspects of it may "offend"
..However, this may be a slippery slope to rewriting anything that refers to any gender, race etc.
The term " boy" or " girl" may offend someone on the planet so should it be removed from all aspects of our language ? No. It's not a perfect world. Live with it.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #33
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Modern copies of Of Mice and Men still contain racist language, as do those of To Kill A Mockingbird. Both to reflect the contexts in which they were written.

Calling Augustus Gloop enormous instead of fat doesn’t serve much purpose.
Click to expand...
It's utterly ridiculous.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #34
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
I'm not worried at all, but we live in times when a hyper sensitive minority seem to dictate what I can or can't have access to read in Roald Dahl books.
I don't read Shakespeare because I find the language difficult, but I don't demand it to be rewritten in modern language to accommodate my lack of understanding. I accept it for what it is even though certain aspects of it may "offend"
..However, this may be a slippery slope to rewriting anything that refers to any gender, race etc.
The term " boy" or " girl" may offend someone on the planet so should it be removed from all aspects of our language ? No. It's not a perfect world. Live with it.
Click to expand...
I don’t think they’re running around burning old editions of Matilda, you’ll be perfectly able to read the version you want.

I suppose you could impose some sort of rule that would prevent any work of fiction from ever being edited or updated. I’m just not that keen to restrict free speech like that.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 21, 2023
  • #35
If you feel you have to put a warning on them somewhere saying at the time of writing some of the language was culturally acceptable then do but don’t rewrite them. They do something similar with Only Fools and Horses re-runs. It’s not acceptable today to refer to a corner shop in a manner it was regularly referred to in the 70’s and 80’s due to the owners origins for example, as Del Boy often does in Only Fools and Horses. Even though a lot of the owners were in fact from India not its neighbouring country.

For me it’s educational, it’s social commentary, it’s a measure of how far (the majority of us at least) have come in reshaping attitudes for the better. Writing out history is dangerous, whether that be a character’s name in a book or getting upset that the National Trust tells you where the money came from to build certain buildings, stately homes etc. Both left and right want to do it and it’s dangerous regardless of which “side” is doing it.
 
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