Right, let's get all this out the way (3 Viewers)

Cheshire Sky Blue · Aug 26, 2013

skyblue1523 said:
they have not been offered £150,000 rent deal this is where it gets confused admin was offered the rent deal.SO sisu have not turned it down it wasn't offered to them to accept i think they would accept it if offered

Did you hear Tim Fisher on CWR a few weeks ago. He clearly stated that CCFC would never return to the RICOH, and then childishly taunted,.. only if ACL give them the 10 points back.

Fisher has a sound bite for all situations. I believe that SISU will not go back to the RICOH except on their terms (Remember what Sepalla is alleged to have said to the Council regarding that subject) The only possible way is to put SISU under financial pressure. The only problem here is none of us know how much pressure they can take, and what they will do when they can take no more.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 26, 2013

chiefdave said:
So why is Fisher not all over the radio and telegraph telling ACL to offer the 150K deal to Otium and they'll take it? When he was on CWR and was questioned on the offer he tried playing the 'it was offered to the administrator card' but when pushed to say if they would accept the same deal offered to them he refused to answer, if you wanted that deal you'd be making it clear as you'd then have the fans putting pressure on ACL.

Hence why the message should be both sides to talk to each other.

ACL have yet to offer any deal directly to the club, the club have yet to offer to sit down so such a deal can be offered directly.

The he said, she said gets us nowhere.

hotrod · Aug 26, 2013

longjohnskyblue said:
Sadly anyone who believes sisu have any intention of compromise clearly hasn't done any real research into them! If they had, they would know that sisu have an awful reputation even in the financial industry ( and that is saying something!). They have a proven history of brinkmanship, scare tactics, and bullying - this is all standard practice for them. They are well known for trying to circumvent admin procedures (time and time again they try and make themselves preferrential creditors despite often being a minority creditor!).Why else do you think sisu set up Otium and the myriad of other umbrella companies that may well lurk in the mud still? They make contingencies for court cases and deals from day one!

When you have a judge in open court openly questioning their truthfulness, it is hardly surprising that ccfc are in the predicament they are in right now! So to put even 1% of the blame on anyone else but sisum, is just plain naive. Their plan from day one was to get the arena as cheaply as possible - when ACL stood firm, sisu went hostile!

So whilst it sounds good in soundbite to "get the 2 parties together" it simply will not work - ever. Sisu haven't budged from their initial positon 1 inch - even after everything that has gone on! They said average rent was £170k (where they got these figures from is anyone's guess) - they were offered £150k. Then they moved the goalposts! This was never about the rent- it was getting the arena on the cheap.

If it were about the F&B then why didn't they offer to buy a licence for this concession? WHY didn't they buy the arena straight away if it was so integral to the profitability of the club? The reality is the F&B is a relatively trivial amount, the big bucks comes in getting the club in the Prem. That was what they bought into under ranson. It is no coincidence that city struggled to get any decent players in once ranson left! They reverted to type.

There is only one way forward - and that is sisu going. Saying get city back first then worry about the other stuff later - that kind of thinking got sisu at the reins in the first place! You cannot isolate the 2 problems, however much people would like. Once sisu are gone the club will be brought back to the city. It cannot and will not whilst sisu are in charge (and I suspect they know it!). Anything else is just wishful thinking

In any other Business Sisu would been Bankrupted or a Winding up order issued against them for defaulting on a Legitimate Agreement,ie The Rent.

Regards.

shmmeee · Aug 26, 2013

So....what are these positive, generic, non-wet messages?

Just a question: does anyone think Joy Seppala gives a furry fuck about anything that happens such as games being disrupted, marches, in ground demonstrations?

GaryPendrysEyes · Aug 26, 2013

shmmeee said:
So....what are these positive, generic, non-wet messages?

Just a question: does anyone think Joy Seppala gives a furry fuck about anything that happens such as games being disrupted, marches, in ground demonstrations?

If it makes the media in the right way, i.e. saying Sisu are untrustworthy/incompetent etc of course she will care - no business wants negative publicity which might affect current/future business.

shmmeee · Aug 26, 2013

GaryPendrysEyes said:
If it makes the media in the right way, i.e. saying Sisu are untrustworthy/incompetent etc of course she will care - no business wants negative publicity which might affect current/future business.

But they are proving they are competent. That's exactly what this is. "Look world! Sisu is so hard nosed they'll put a 130 year old community asset out of existence if it gets in the way of our plans!"

The more publicity the whole thing gets the more likely she is to stick to her guns in all likelyhood.

Hedge funds don't want a "nice" corporate image. They want you to know they'd sell their granny for a profit.

GaryPendrysEyes · Aug 26, 2013

That's why I said the message needs to be right and why I chose untrustworthy and incompetent-- because potential Sisu investors dont want those attributes- hardnosed yes but not incompetent or unprofessional or failing.

Paxman II · Aug 26, 2013

What am I missing here? Am I right in saying then Fisher has publicly stated on radio that he would talk to ACL if they pick up the phone? OK so have ACL been on the radio in public to say anything similar? Sounds to me one side is making some concession to the possibility of talks while the other remains silent? I'd say over to you ACL - or have I missed something?

letsallsingtogether · Aug 26, 2013

I know even gave it a like

Steve.B50 said:
A decent post, this one is worth reading.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Aug 26, 2013

Paxman II said:
What am I missing here? Am I right in saying then Fisher has publicly stated on radio that he would talk to ACL if they pick up the phone? OK so have ACL been on the radio in public to say anything similar? Sounds to me one side is making some concession to the possibility of talks while the other remains silent? I'd say over to you ACL - or have I missed something?

One might ask why, if he's prepared to talk to them, he doesn't initiate the call.

That's what I do when I want to speak to someone.

But, I'd agree that it's a step forward from his previous position.

deanocity3 · Aug 26, 2013

ACL should give the club this season rent free to play at the ricoh,and we will see if the club have intentions of building a stadium.
but I think that a new stadium will never happen.
I can't understand why they are prepared to gain only 35,000 pounds per match maximum at sixfields when they can get £250,000 at the ricoh.
ACL must open the door first to see if the club will enter if they don't the club will never come back

shmmeee · Aug 26, 2013

Paxman II said:
What am I missing here? Am I right in saying then Fisher has publicly stated on radio that he would talk to ACL if they pick up the phone? OK so have ACL been on the radio in public to say anything similar? Sounds to me one side is making some concession to the possibility of talks while the other remains silent? I'd say over to you ACL - or have I missed something?

Not sure that's exactly what was said, but he does sound like he is softening.

Pressure on ACL from the Trust needed to make a public statement if willingness to talk.

Open meeting next week, anyone fancy raising it?

Bill Glazier · Aug 26, 2013

GaryPendrysEyes said:
If it makes the media in the right way, i.e. saying Sisu are untrustworthy/incompetent etc of course she will care - no business wants negative publicity which might affect current/future business.

No, really, Sisu doesn't care. It doesn't rely on UK consumers for its income - its real income. It's real money comes from US investors who don't give a tuppeny f**k how it makes money, or more pertinent in this case, how it loses as little as possible. Also, CCFC is now (allegedly) totally owned by companies in the Cayman Islands that the UK authorities have little hold over.

GaryPendrysEyes · Aug 26, 2013

Bill Glazier said:
No, really, Sisu doesn't care. It doesn't rely on UK consumers for its income - its real income. It's real money comes from US investors who don't give a tuppeny f**k how it makes money, or more pertinent in this case, how it loses as little as possible. Also, CCFC is now (allegedly) totally owned by companies in the Cayman Islands that the UK authorities have little hold over.

Have to disagree. Any new potential investor would look at Sisu, its record and research it. That might turn up bad publicity including their competence, professionalism etc. you cant just operate is a US bubble or like nowadays.

shmmeee · Aug 26, 2013

GaryPendrysEyes said:
Have to disagree. Any new potential investor would look at Sisu, its record and research it. That might turn up bad publicity including their competence, professionalism etc. you cant just operate is a US bubble or like nowadays.

I honestly think you give the moral standards of your average hedge fund investor too much credit. They'd love this whole story.

Remember Sisu are there to make a profit for investors. They are not incompetent, if they were they'd be gone by now. They are trustworthy, as long as you're an investor.

Seriously the PR angle is a wild goose chase.

GaryPendrysEyes · Aug 26, 2013

shmmeee said:
I honestly think you give the moral standards of your average hedge fund investor too much credit. They'd love this whole story.

Remember Sisu are there to make a profit for investors. They are not incompetent, if they were they'd be gone by now. They are trustworthy, as long as you're an investor.

Seriously the PR angle is a wild goose chase.

You think they have made money for their investors???? you think buying CCFC in the first place was 'competent'? and that reducing its value by 50% over 5 years is competent?? You think they are operating without a high degree of risk to investments (court cases, FA reviews, some press scrutiny)??
Are they really competent and trustworthy professionals for investors?

Not saying the PR issue is the be all and end all - but it can be used.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 26, 2013

shmmeee said:
I honestly think you give the moral standards of your average hedge fund investor too much credit. They'd love this whole story.

Remember Sisu are there to make a profit for investors. They are not incompetent, if they were they'd be gone by now. They are trustworthy, as long as you're an investor.

Seriously the PR angle is a wild goose chase.

Yup you invest in something like SISU knowing it's high risk, but potentially high return.

It failing is not unusual after all, you're prepared for that.

I'd say the public message that when they say something in negotiations, you'd better listen is worth more to them than any perceived negative.

wince · Aug 26, 2013

Publication of ownership
2.13 Each Club shall publish its legal name, form (e.g. unincorporated association, company limited by shares or guarantee etc) and any identiﬁ er (e.g. company number). In addition for those Clubs that are owned, then the Club shall also publish the identities of the ultimate owner (i.e. the name of an individual) of each Signiﬁ cant Interest in the Club. Such information shall as a minimum be published on the Club’s offi cial website on a page accessible directly from the home page of that offi cial club website and/or within the Club’s offi cial matchday programme.
The board, the directors and the staff!

Coventry City Football Club
Founded 1883

Managing Director: Tim Fisher
Directors: Steve Waggott, Mark Labovitch
Life President: Joe Elliott
Life President: Mike McGinnity

Read more at http://www.ccfc.co.uk/club/boardroom/#F7YrJU0krYDRykTS.99 IS this done ?

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 26, 2013

GaryPendrysEyes said:
You think they have made money for their investors???? you think buying CCFC in the first place was 'competent'? and that reducing its value by 50% over 5 years is competent?? You think they are operating without a high degree of risk to investments (court cases, FA reviews, some press scrutiny)??
Are they really competent and trustworthy professionals for investors?

Not saying the PR issue is the be all and end all - but it can be used.

Back to that high risk thing though.

Frankly the club was buggered when they bought it, but there was a carrot of a top flight place being possible, and being able to bail at a profit if so.

Although Dulieu and Brody suggest otherwise(!) (although Elliott was massively impressed by them ) not even sure it's been incompetence, more the natural state of the club catching up with it.

The problem is though, unlike a Goldberg, a Jordan, or some other wealthy benefactor-fan, they're not going to go without at least trying to claw some cash back.

And unlike a Jordan, they won't have any emotional tie stopping them wiping a failed entity off the football map if it's to their benefit to do so.

shmmeee · Aug 26, 2013

Didn't realise Jim Brown was actually on the payroll. Puts his Telegraph article in a different light.

What do Busst and the SBITC team actually do at the moment?

Jack Griffin · Aug 26, 2013

deanocity3 said:
ACL should give the club this season rent free to play at the ricoh,and we will see if the club have intentions of building a stadium.
but I think that a new stadium will never happen.
I can't understand why they are prepared to gain only 35,000 pounds per match maximum at sixfields when they can get £250,000 at the ricoh.
ACL must open the door first to see if the club will enter if they don't the club will never come back

The loss of income is key, NOPM & SISU will realise they bit of more than they can chew.

fernandopartridge · Aug 26, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
The loss of income is key, NO TENANT & ACL will realise they bit of more than they can chew.

Indeed

skybluefred · Aug 26, 2013

Paxman II said:
What am I missing here? Am I right in saying then Fisher has publicly stated on radio that he would talk to ACL if they pick up the phone? OK so have ACL been on the radio in public to say anything similar? Sounds to me one side is making some concession to the possibility of talks while the other remains silent? I'd say over to you ACL - or have I missed something?

If Fisher can speak out on the radio HE can also pick up the phone and ring ACL.What's stopping him??? He probably know's the majority of fan's are not going to support CCFC while he and his cronies are in charge.

Jack Griffin · Aug 26, 2013

I think you'll find ACL have income..

Energy Efficiency Exhibition 12 Sep 2013
Childcare Expo 2013 27th-28th September 2013
Electronics Design Show 2013 2 Oct 2013 - 3 Oct 2013
Engineering Materials Live 2 Oct 2013 - 3 Oct 2013
Engineering Design Show 2 Oct 2013 - 3 Oct 2013
SCS Formulate 2013 12 – 13 November 2013

Coventry City Ladies 25 Aug 2013
Martial Arts Expo 19 Oct 2013
Champion of Champions Snooker 19th-24th November 2013

Psychic Sally On The Road 7 Oct 2013 - that one is sold out.
Bringing Christmas Alive - Xmas lunches..

RPHunt · Aug 26, 2013

Here's a link to picture of Ann Lucas with an invitation to Joy Seppala to come and talk to her and the possibility of the council selling the stadium http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-council-leader-ann-lucas-5677830

Can anyone post a link to a picture of Joy with her reply?

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