Ricoh - Gut Feeling (9 Viewers)

Skybluemichael · Jun 23, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
One little change and you get the exact line of the council, which many have said is a ridiculous position to take and letting personal feelings get in the way of sound reasoning.

So if you're attitude is anything but deal with Wasps you also must appreciate the stance of the council re SISU, esp as SISU tried to bankrupt ACL.

Didn’t sisu offer to take on the ACL debit for part ownership? Wasps took on the debit and paid an extra £5mil and got full ownership

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 23, 2020

Skybluemichael said:
Didn’t sisu offer to take on the ACL debit for part ownership? Wasps took on the debit and paid an extra £5mil and got full ownership

Obv there were differences in the deal (leasehold term being the main one) and there is the issue of what SISU actually wanted kept on getting bigger. First fair rent, then rent with FB money, then unencumbered leasehold, then the freehold.

Point was that those saying "I'd refuse to deal with Wasps" and blaming the council for selling to them are taking exactly the same line as the council did with SISU.

Skybluemichael · Jun 23, 2020

Well I blame the council all they had to do was say, sisu we are going to sell to wasps do you want to match or better the offer? Start a bidding war and get the best price for a council asset

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 23, 2020

Skybluemichael said:
Well I blame the council all they had to do was say, sisu we are going to sell to wasps do you want to match or better the offer? Start a bidding war and get the best price for a council asset

I agree it should've been more open to improve value. Of course it could've gone the other way that Wasps said they would pull out if they did and that would've totally negated the competitive element and reduced the value of the stadium to less than what Wasps were willing to pay. SISU sure as hell weren't going to pay that much if they were the sole interested party - they did say it should've been given to them for nothing at one point as it was 'worthless' (quite a thing to say considering they now want an investigation into the 'worthless' asset being undervalued).

But the point is that stating "I'd refuse to talk to Wasps" just on their dislike of them and their actions is no different to what the council did with SISU. So they're basically saying they agree with the council's actions becuase they'd do the same thing they did in a similar position.

higgs · Jun 23, 2020

If we get back the Ricoh i hope the playing surface is better than the last season we were there don't want to be playing hoof ball because of the state of the pitch

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SBbucks · Jun 23, 2020

ccfcchris said:
I should have said The EU complaint. Does that make you feel better love?

So why didn't you say that instead of perpetuating the "legals" myth?

shmmeee · Jun 24, 2020

SBbucks said:
So why didn't you say that instead of perpetuating the "legals" myth?

I mean to be pedantic (as that seems to be the order of the day), state aid rules are EU law, it is a legal matter. The EU explicitly call it “legal” in their description What is state aid? European Commission

This is a very very weird hill to choose to die on.

Liquid Gold · Jun 24, 2020

shmmeee said:
I mean to be pedantic (as that seems to be the order of the day), state aid rules are EU law, it is a legal matter. The EU explicitly call it “legal” in their description What is state aid? European Commission

This is a very very weird hill to choose to die on.

The issue in the statement 'Drop the legals' shouldn't be the word legals but the word drop. Who gives a shit if if is a legal process or not, there is nothing they can do to stop it.

shmmeee · Jun 24, 2020

Liquid Gold said:
The issue in the statement 'Drop the legals' shouldn't be the word legals but the word drop. Who gives a shit if if is a legal process or not, there is nothing they can do to stop it.

Agree completely.

mr_monkey · Jun 24, 2020

shmmeee said:
I mean to be pedantic (as that seems to be the order of the day), state aid rules are EU law, it is a legal matter. The EU explicitly call it “legal” in their description What is state aid? European Commission

This is a very very weird hill to choose to die on.

And to be pedantic the other way the issue at the moment is that sisu have asked the EU to look into if it was state aid, if the EU agree then it most definitely becomes the above and is a legal matter but at the moment it's only a complaint so it isn't technically legal action

The reason why people are so set on the legal term is that sisu agreed to cease all legals with wasps as a term of the talks last year, wasps then claimed that this complaint was the reason that talks broke down which we all know is utter rubbish and it was due to our refusal to sign up to the insane indemnity clause...

Also the fact that if any legals did come from the complaint they would be against the council only and not Wasps so as per the original terms agreed by wasps there should be no reason why we weren't at the Ricoh last season, they just changed the goal posts at the last minute and thought we would bend over backwards for them in order to play in cov

People only get annoyed by it because people aren't telling the whole truth and doctoring it to fit their narrative...wasps are the sole reason why we weren't in cov last season and if we aren't next season either it will be because of them again

ccfcchris · Jun 24, 2020

SBbucks said:
So why didn't you say that instead of perpetuating the "legals" myth?

Perhaps you need to think about why it bothers you so much. I made a mistake. What you after blood?

mr_monkey · Jun 24, 2020

ccfcchris said:
Perhaps you need to think about why it bothers you so much. I made a mistake. What you after blood?

I'd imagine because it's not factually correct, let's leave that for the telegraph, cwr and the trust and keep this board for facts

SBbucks · Jun 24, 2020

mr_monkey said:
I'd imagine because it's not factually correct, let's leave that for the telegraph, cwr and the trust and keep this board for facts

You beat me to it

mark_ccfc · Jun 24, 2020

mr_monkey said:
And to be pedantic the other way the issue at the moment is that sisu have asked the EU to look into if it was state aid, if the EU agree then it most definitely becomes the above and is a legal matter but at the moment it's only a complaint so it isn't technically legal action

The reason why people are so set on the legal term is that sisu agreed to cease all legals with wasps as a term of the talks last year, wasps then claimed that this complaint was the reason that talks broke down which we all know is utter rubbish and it was due to our refusal to sign up to the insane indemnity clause...

Also the fact that if any legals did come from the complaint they would be against the council only and not Wasps so as per the original terms agreed by wasps there should be no reason why we weren't at the Ricoh last season, they just changed the goal posts at the last minute and thought we would bend over backwards for them in order to play in cov

People only get annoyed by it because people aren't telling the whole truth and doctoring it to fit their narrative...wasps are the sole reason why we weren't in cov last season and if we aren't next season either it will be because of them again

To make it just a little clearer, do you think we would be back at the Ricoh if SISU had not complained to the European Commission?

mr_monkey · Jun 24, 2020

mark_ccfc said:
To make it just a little clearer, do you think we would be back at the Ricoh if SISU had not complained to the European Commission?

I honestly don't, I don't think wasps ever wanted us there during those negotiations and always planned to have the indemnity clause, the EU complaint was just a good out for them and I'm sure they would have found another public reason to leak to Gilbert/the telegraph (probably around possible "future legal action")

Now however I think the situation is very different, wasps didn't need us last year but with everything that has happened (their shit form, covid, the bond price and us getting promoted) they need us and I will honestly be shocked if we don't start the championship season playing at the ricoh

shmmeee · Jun 24, 2020

mr_monkey said:
And to be pedantic the other way the issue at the moment is that sisu have asked the EU to look into if it was state aid, if the EU agree then it most definitely becomes the above and is a legal matter but at the moment it's only a complaint so it isn't technically legal action

The reason why people are so set on the legal term is that sisu agreed to cease all legals with wasps as a term of the talks last year, wasps then claimed that this complaint was the reason that talks broke down which we all know is utter rubbish and it was due to our refusal to sign up to the insane indemnity clause...

Also the fact that if any legals did come from the complaint they would be against the council only and not Wasps so as per the original terms agreed by wasps there should be no reason why we weren't at the Ricoh last season, they just changed the goal posts at the last minute and thought we would bend over backwards for them in order to play in cov

People only get annoyed by it because people aren't telling the whole truth and doctoring it to fit their narrative...wasps are the sole reason why we weren't in cov last season and if we aren't next season either it will be because of them again

With you up until the last paragraph. Though I’d argue if I complain to the Police people would see that as a legal complaint even before the CPS decide to prosecute.

Two possibilities here: one is a bunch of people have a “narrative” and are “perpetuating myths” one can only assume for nefarious reasons. The other is a bunch of football fans on an Internet forum don’t always speak like EU law experts. I know which is more likely IMHO.

mr_monkey · Jun 24, 2020

shmmeee said:
With you up until the last paragraph. Though I’d argue if I complain to the Police people would see that as a legal complaint even before the CPS decide to prosecute.

Two possibilities here: one is a bunch of people have a “narrative” and are “perpetuating myths” one can only assume for nefarious reasons. The other is a bunch of football fans on an Internet forum don’t always speak like EU law experts. I know which is more likely IMHO.

i agree mate and I did mean my last paragraph more for the way it's been handled by the local media, the trust etc which is where people get their information from, rather than people on here trying to deliberately push an agenda.... I definitely could have put it better, I blame the heat

usskyblue · Jun 24, 2020

Loading the progress on the Ricoh

mr_monkey · Jun 24, 2020

usskyblue said:
Loading the progress on the Ricoh

No news is good news buddy, glass half full and all that

mark_ccfc · Jun 24, 2020

mr_monkey said:
I honestly don't, I don't think wasps ever wanted us there during those negotiations and always planned to have the indemnity clause, the EU complaint was just a good out for them and I'm sure they would have found another public reason to leak to Gilbert/the telegraph (probably around possible "future legal action")

Now however I think the situation is very different, wasps didn't need us last year but with everything that has happened (their shit form, covid, the bond price and us getting promoted) they need us and I will honestly be shocked if we don't start the championship season playing at the ricoh

I personally think we would be back, I think the stadium is too small for either wasps or ccfc on their own.
The change in situation now however is that with covid we will lose money whether back at the ricoh or not, so I think SISU will hold out (unfortunately for the fans that want us back in cov) to try and stress wasps financially.
The one good thing to come out of covid for us is that if the crowds are lower at the beginning of next season due to social distancing, then it will level the playing field financially, even if we are not back at the Ricoh.

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT · Jun 24, 2020

mr_monkey said:
No news is good news buddy, glass half full and all that

Well we've bin waiting a bloody long time for no news, glass half empty and all that.

mr_monkey · Jun 24, 2020

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT said:
Well we've bin waiting a bloody long time for no news, glass half empty and all that.

I'd rather it took this long as it means we are trying to get the best deal possible for the club

shmmeee · Jun 25, 2020

mr_monkey said:
I'd rather it took this long as it means we are trying to get the best deal possible for the club

It’s not zero cost to wait though. Each season away costs us millions and reduces the benefit of any eventual deal.

mr_monkey · Jun 25, 2020

shmmeee said:
It’s not zero cost to wait though. Each season away costs us millions and reduces the benefit of any eventual deal.

That's negotiations for you, both sides will be playing hardball right now but there will come a tipping point probably very soon once the rugby decide what to do. By your logic we should have taken the deal last year which obviously short term would have been in our best interests to be
back in cov but long term could have fucked us over majorly

We are in this mess because past powers that be have only thought short term, personally I'm happy they are taking their time to get the best deal for the rightful inhabitants of that stadium and have every faith in boddy and his team to do what is right long term for the club

Our promotion gives us a massive increase in revenue next season and massive incentive to wasps to do a deal as they would make a hell of a lot more money with us being in the championship instead of league one

Have patience mate, it'll happen

ccfcchris · Jun 25, 2020

Everyones just guessing. One way or another it will get sorted.

Ricoh - Gut Feeling (9 Viewers)

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