Refugees welcome? (2 Viewers)

Harry Krishner · Sep 5, 2015

Europeans are being played for fools- some of them anyway.

The press get their "killer image" with which to silence any voices of dissent, and suddenly everybody is begging to be replaced with yet another tidal wave of immigrants.

What about letting them in until things quiten down in the ME? I would be more amenable to that idea if Tony Blair's two million immigrants and the millions prior to that hadn't drained that particular reservoir of good will....and we all know they will never return once they are in.

skybluedan · Sep 5, 2015

I would just let in the fit women

Harry Krishner · Sep 5, 2015

skybluedan said:
I would just let in the fit women

That's the spirit!

Grendel · Sep 5, 2015

Harry Krishner said:
Good grasp of history there Grendel.

Hungary suffered terribly under the Ottoman Empire- as did Bulgaria and Greece- this may go some way to explaining their reluctance to accept a horde of Muslim immigrants.

It doesn't explain their anti scemetic attitude which is prevalent in much of the population.

I can't be bothered to look but also I'm pretty certain that the empires influence in this part of the world crumbled around the 17th century,

By your "logic" the vast majority of the world would ban us from visiting given our colonial conquest strategy in the same period of history. Do we ban Italians for the Roman conquest.

It's a bullshit argument to justify totally unacceptable bigotry by someone who clearly has a very unpleasant agenda.

Harry Krishner · Sep 5, 2015

Grendel said:
It doesn't explain their anti scemetic attitude which is prevalent in much of the population.

I can't be bothered to look but also I'm pretty certain that the empires influence in this part of the world crumbled around the 17th century,

By your "logic" the vast majority of the world would ban us from visiting given our colonial conquest strategy in the same period of history. Do we ban Italians for the Roman conquest.

It's a bullshit argument to justify totally unacceptable bigotry by someone who clearly has a very unpleasant agenda.

Ottoman Empire ended in WW 1.

What's "anti-scemetic"? Don't they like the decor?

Most of these people aren't Syrian anyway- if they were they could have driven to Iran on a tank of petrol, or got to Azerbaijan or Kazakhstan in a day or two by train. But instead they opted for the long route through Jordan, Egypt, Libya, and then the sea, didn't they?

Why is it Europe's problem and not China's? or Korea's? India's? The Gulf States? Europe should join the Gulf states in not accepting any.

Before you go back to the sixth form, just curious as to what my "very unpleasant agenda" is. I am merely stating the truth- this is not a European problem, and do-gooders should stop making it one.

Grendel · Sep 6, 2015

Harry Krishner said:
Ottoman Empire ended in WW 1.

What's "anti-scemetic"? Don't they like the decor?

Most of these people aren't Syrian anyway- if they were they could have driven to Iran on a tank of petrol, or got to Azerbaijan or Kazakhstan in a day or two by train. But instead they opted for the long route through Jordan, Egypt, Libya, and then the sea, didn't they?

Why is it Europe's problem and not China's? or Korea's? India's? The Gulf States? Europe should join the Gulf states in not accepting any.

Before you go back to the sixth form, just curious as to what my "very unpleasant agenda" is. I am merely stating the truth- this is not a European problem, and do-gooders should stop making it one.

As I thought the empire ceded all of its Hungarian territory in the 17th century

http://theorangefiles.hu/ottoman-hungary/

Harry Krishner · Sep 6, 2015

No matter.

Hungary is under no obligation to accept thousands of refugees- and neither are they under any particular obligation to hold favourable views on Jewish people (if that's what you mean by anti-scemetic). People in east Europe spent centuries battling Islamic invasion at great cost in lives- they can hardly be blamed for their reluctance to accept them voluntarily.

While we're on the topic of anti-semetism, many of those from the middle-east will be rabidly anti-Jewish...intollerant bigots actually- to anyone outside Islam. But hey! Not to worry - we can all hand-wring about that on Sky Blues Talk when attacks on Jews in Europe mushroom (What? They are already??).

I'm off anyway- can't waste any more time debating with brainwashed fools.

PUSB.

SIR ERNIE · Sep 6, 2015

Harry Krishner said:
Ottoman Empire ended in WW 1.

What's "anti-scemetic"? Don't they like the decor?

Most of these people aren't Syrian anyway- if they were they could have driven to Iran on a tank of petrol, or got to Azerbaijan or Kazakhstan in a day or two by train. But instead they opted for the long route through Jordan, Egypt, Libya, and then the sea, didn't they?

Why is it Europe's problem and not China's? or Korea's? India's? The Gulf States? Europe should join the Gulf states in not accepting any.

Before you go back to the sixth form, just curious as to what my "very unpleasant agenda" is. I am merely stating the truth- this is not a European problem, and do-gooders should stop making it one.

Spot on HK.

So Germany plan to accept 800,000 'refugees' this year.

I wonder what Merkel's plan is after that for the remaining 22 million Syrians and countless millions of doubtful origin who'd like to follow them through Borderless Europe?

Or in true liberalist do-gooder tradition, has she not thought beyond the initial knee-jerk action?

Terry Gibson's perm · Sep 6, 2015

SIR ERNIE said:
Spot on HK.

So Germany plan to accept 800,000 'refugees' this year.

I wonder what Merkel's plan is after that for the remaining 22 million Syrians and countless millions of doubtful origin who'd like to follow them through Borderless Europe?

Or in true liberalist do-gooder tradition, has she not thought beyond the initial knee-jerk action?

she will say Germany has taken its quota and now time for the UK to step forward, time to brick up the tunnel.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 6, 2015

SIR ERNIE said:
Or in true liberalist do-gooder tradition

Those bastard do-gooders.

Grendel · Sep 6, 2015

SIR ERNIE said:
Spot on HK.

So Germany plan to accept 800,000 'refugees' this year.

I wonder what Merkel's plan is after that for the remaining 22 million Syrians and countless millions of doubtful origin who'd like to follow them through Borderless Europe?

Or in true liberalist do-gooder tradition, has she not thought beyond the initial knee-jerk action?

Why do you put the word refugees in inverted commas?

Why say doubtful origin?

Colin1883 · Sep 6, 2015

Grendel said:
Why do you put the word refugees in inverted commas?

Why say doubtful origin?

How many of these unfortunate people are you going to invite to live with you?

Terry Gibson's perm · Sep 6, 2015

Colin1883 said:
How many of these unfortunate people are you going to invite to live with you?

No need Anne Lucas has offered the hand of friendship so she must be opening up her house.

martcov · Sep 6, 2015

Colin1883 said:
How many of these unfortunate people are you going to invite to live with you?

Well... whilst on the subject of refugees.... I was at a 3. Bundesliga game yeasterday in Kiel. About 20 Syrians were invited to the game by the club. The were not armed, did not rape anyone and were really happy at the welcome they got. The whole stadium stood up and applauded them before the game. It was moving seeing them so happy.

Would that happen in Coventry at the game? Judging by some comments on here .... no way.

Many of my friends are joining in to help these people with donations etc.. Germans are actually positive about their arrival as a lot of them are qualified or skilled and a certain percentage will soon have the chance to work here.

500 arrived in Kiel this week and are living a Container village - not exactly luxury, but clean and safe.

As to the neo Nazis who throw Molotov Cocktails into their accomodation, they are despised by all my contacts here.

Yes, people are worried as to far this can go in numbers, but for now at least, people are trying to help and make them feel welcome. 70 years ago Germans were chased from East Prussia, Silesia and the Sudetenlands - I think that is why they are more likely to understand what these people feel like, in contrast to the little Engländer sitting on their island just off Europe.

Sick Boy · Sep 6, 2015

Terry Gibson's perm said:
she will say Germany has taken its quota and now time for the UK to step forward, time to brick up the tunnel.

What a vile little Englander you are. Some of us have girlfriends/wives who do not come from this country. Do you propose building a wall around the country and sending them all back too.

Twat.

martcov · Sep 6, 2015

Sick Boy said:
What a vile little Englander you are. Some of us have girlfriends/wives who do not come from this country. Do you propose building a wall around the country and sending them all back too.

Twat.

Yes, my daughter is half German. At the moment she wants to go England for a year to improve her English. I am beginning to doubt the value of that judging by the comments on here. I must admit I am tending to side with you and Grendel on this subject.

Terry Gibson's perm · Sep 6, 2015

Sick Boy said:
What a vile little Englander you are. Some of us have girlfriends/wives who do not come from this country. Do you propose building a wall around the country and sending them all back too.

Twat.

Absolutely wrong My grandparents were not from this country but I am proud to be English , what I am saying is we have taken plenty let's let some other countries take some.

if you wish to discuss like an adult please feel free to pm me and I will quite happily meet to discuss further but no need to call names from behind your keyboard.

Sick Boy · Sep 6, 2015

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Absolutely wrong My grandparents were not from this country but I am proud to be English , what I am saying is we have taken plenty let's let some other countries take some.

if you wish to discuss like an adult please feel free to pm me and I will quite happily meet to discuss further but no need to call names from behind your keyboard.

Other European countries take far more refugees than this country believe it or not. The majority of them do not seem to want to come here, I wonder why?

No doubt when your grandparents arrived in Britain they faced similar hostility from the likes of yourself.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 6, 2015

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Absolutely wrong My grandparents were not from this country but I am proud to be English , what I am saying is we have taken plenty let's let some other countries take some.

We haven't taken that many actually. https://fullfact.org/live/2015/aug/asylum_seekers_britain_eu-46985

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 6, 2015

It's part of a wider article which may go some to debunking a few 'facts'

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/immigration/blackboard_claims_immigration_facebook-47456

Bear in mind the article is in response to an emotive post too. Funny, however, that when the selective stuff is used to collate all immigrants together, it's to our advantage... and the asylum seekers are anything but a flood.

Sick Boy · Sep 6, 2015

Even the Italians are a lot more welcoming of immigrants and refugees and that's saying something. They take far more than Britain as well despite what the little Englanders will tell you.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 6, 2015

martcov said:
Yes, my daughter is half German. At the moment she wants to go England for a year to improve her English. I am beginning to doubt the value of that judging by the comments on here. I must admit I am tending to side with you and Grendel on this subject.

FWIW, and having worked and lived around a number of cultures and nationalities in the past in Britain, I'm pleased to say that generally the people I knew were welcomed and made to feel at home.

As a rule, I'm proud to say that generally we are tolerant of others. Sometimes it gets lost in the sensationalist scaremongering however.

martcov · Sep 6, 2015

henry the wasp said:
Germany is better? Lets hope they don't end up around Dresden , Leipzig etc.
Whereabouts is your pub?

Kiel. A group of around 20 refugees were invited to the game yesterday and we all stood up and applauded them. Dresden has hardly any immigrants and is making the most fuss. They are also worried about falling tourist figures - everywhere else in Germany is booming ( including Leipzig ). This could be a reaction to their anti Immigrant demos.

Sick Boy · Sep 6, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
FWIW, and having worked and lived around a number of cultures and nationalities in the past in Britain, I'm pleased to say that generally the people I knew were welcomed and made to feel at home.

As a rule, I'm proud to say that generally we are tolerant of others. Sometimes it gets lost in the sensationalist scaremongering however.

I'm not sure I agree with you. I find Britain very insular and more and more right-wing. This will grow even more if the country leaves the EU as well. The British are also perceived as being extremely arrogant about other nationalities and there is certainly a feeling that the British way is the best and only way.

Sick Boy · Sep 6, 2015

martcov said:
Yes, my daughter is half German. At the moment she wants to go England for a year to improve her English. I am beginning to doubt the value of that judging by the comments on here. I must admit I am tending to side with you and Grendel on this subject.

If I was you I'd encourage her to go over to Ireland which has a much more European and open feel these days.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 6, 2015

Sick Boy said:
I'm not sure I agree with you. I find Britain very insular and more and more right-wing. This will grow even more if the country leaves the EU as well. The British are also perceived as being extremely arrogant about other nationalities and there is certainly a feeling that the British way is the best and only way.

Maybe it depends who you associate with

martcov · Sep 6, 2015

Sick Boy said:
If I was you I'd encourage her to go over to Ireland which has a much more European and open feel these days.

You are right. I have a lot to do with Irish people over here and have some good friends and family by marriage there. I may well do that.

Terry Gibson's perm · Sep 6, 2015

Sick Boy said:
Other European countries take far more refugees than this country believe it or not. The majority of them do not seem to want to come here, I wonder why?

No doubt when your grandparents arrived in Britain they faced similar hostility from the likes of yourself.

quite possibly they did I will ask next time I see my grandmother as she has never left.

SIR ERNIE · Sep 6, 2015

Sick Boy said:
Other European countries take far more refugees than this country believe it or not. The majority of them do not seem to want to come here, I wonder why?

No doubt when your grandparents arrived in Britain they faced similar hostility from the likes of yourself.

Check your history and you will learn that Britain has welcomed more than it's fair share of immigrants and refugees over many decades and at times when other nations stood by and did nothing.

In case you hadn't noticed, Mr Cameron has announced that we will give 15,000 Syrians refugee status in the UK. Quite correctly he has stated that these people will be taken from the refugee camps bordering Syria rather than the masses pouring into eastern Europe from who-knows-where, so that we can be certain that they are genuine refugees. I would say 15,000 is about the right number.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 6, 2015

SIR ERNIE said:
so that we can be certain that they are genuine refugees.

People often cross thousands of miles by foot because they're after £35 a week JSA, after all...

Sick Boy · Sep 6, 2015

I find it quite alarming that some seem to dehumanise fellow human beings so much. Anyone would think we are talking about vermin or some other unwanted pest.

Colin1883 · Sep 6, 2015

[MENTION=5800]martcov[/MENTION]... Hang on a minute, I did not mention rape or murder, perhaps they are they are your underlying thoughts about the subject, all I want to know is how many are you kneejeekers prepared to have living in your houses, with the apparent lack of social housing in great Britain? Oh yeah, don't forget there are many other war torn countries, do you suggest that the refugees rom these countries come to Europe aswell?

martcov · Sep 6, 2015

Colin1883 said:
@martcov... Hang on a minute, I did not mention rape or murder, perhaps they are they are your underlying thoughts about the subject, all I want to know is how many are you kneejeekers prepared to have living in your houses, with the apparent lack of social housing in great Britain? Oh yeah, don't forget there are many other war torn countries, do you suggest that the refugees rom these countries come to Europe aswell?

No, rape and murder have been mentioned to me by people in the uk who seem to think that all Syrians are potential ISIS Fighters. I don't live in the UK and there isn't room in my flat in Germany, but I will join in helping with the other Volunteers here. There are many war torn countries in the world, but the refugees on my doorstep ( or not far from it ) are from Syria in the main. We don't have a lot of choice they are coming like it or not. ISIS is reeking havoc as are Assad's forces and I don't see that the refugees have many alternatives. Europe seems a good place to find peace and security. The war is on our doorstep - you either turn your back on these desperate people, throw Molotov Cocktails into their accomodation ( has been done here in Germany ) or make them welcome and make the best out of a bad situation. I'll take the latter and leave the fire bombs or complete indifference to the neo Nazis and their quiet supporters.

martcov · Sep 6, 2015

SIR ERNIE said:
Check your history and you will learn that Britain has welcomed more than it's fair share of immigrants and refugees over many decades and at times when other nations stood by and did nothing.

In case you hadn't noticed, Mr Cameron has announced that we will give 15,000 Syrians refugee status in the UK. Quite correctly he has stated that these people will be taken from the refugee camps bordering Syria rather than the masses pouring into eastern Europe from who-knows-where, so that we can be certain that they are genuine refugees. I would say 15,000 is about the right number.

Germany is calculating for 800,000.

SIR ERNIE · Sep 6, 2015

martcov said:
Germany is calculating for 800,000.

Germany has a declining population.

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