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Recruitment has been shocking (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter CCFC54321
  • Start date Oct 25, 2023
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DrPoolittle

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 9, 2023
  • #386
Gelling has a groin strain
 
Reactions: Calista, BlueSkiesForever and mmttww

skybluecam

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 9, 2023
  • #387
Evo1883 said:
That image shows clearly an attacking midfield 3 and a striker , allen playing slightly ahead of Sheaf in the 2 and our fullbacks getting high

The formation is 4231

Sakamoto playing a bit wider more often to help deal with their best player ?
Click to expand...
eh? That image clearly shows Allen was playing closer to O’Hare than he was Sheaf.

It’s semantics because people will always describe a back “4” despite Bidwell and MVE actually playing as high as/higher than Sheaf.

I stand by 4123/4141 being a more accurate description, purely because Allen was not at all playing in line with Sheaf, and was playing in line with O’Hare most of the time.
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #388
Evo1883 said:
.. Still not sure what point is being made besides moaning for no apparent reason
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Dunno about this. You might be right, they might be. Might never know if it was a formation switch - like when we went to flat 3 with Matty James - that sorted it, or if it was players adjusting (gelling) that made the difference. In the end, if it clicks, it won't matter.
 

BlueSkiesForever

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #389
Well, whether it’s traditional wingers or not, we’re certainly playing better with more wingery-style players than without wingery-style players.

Most importantly we’ve got rid of this weird and boring horseshoe-shape formation we had when we were attacking with wingbacks, just didn’t work, no overlap or space to run inside. Whether it’s 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1 or 4-3-7-9-2-8-1, as long as that first number isn’t a 5 I think we’ll play well.
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #390
skybluecam said:
eh? That image clearly shows Allen was playing closer to O’Hare than he was Sheaf.

It’s semantics because people will always describe a back “4” despite Bidwell and MVE actually playing as high as/higher than Sheaf.

I stand by 4123/4141 being a more accurate description, purely because Allen was not at all playing in line with Sheaf, and was playing in line with O’Hare most of the time.
Click to expand...

When we have the ball obviously the formation is very different because it's so fluid and dynamic when you're attacking. It's like a 2-1-4-3 or something with the ball, yet that's obviously not how you'd describe any formation. That's why the average position map is skewed.

The only time you really see the players lined up in formation is without the ball, and that's clearly in 4231.

Like you say, it's semantics really though.
 
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procdoc

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #391
Our full backs are more attacking in a back four than they were as wingbacks. Bidwell has been flawless since coming back into the team. Never should have been dropped in the first place, there’s a reason he’s always been a regular for teams challenging at the top end of the table
 
Reactions: Saddlebrains, Deleted member 5849, Flying Fokker and 1 other person
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Deity

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #392
procdoc said:
Our full backs are more attacking in a back four than they were as wingbacks. Bidwell has been flawless since coming back into the team. Never should have been dropped in the first place, there’s a reason he’s always been a regular for teams challenging at the top end of the table
Click to expand...
Bidwell has been excellent since he came back in but it may have been being dropped that has given him more attacking ambition.

Da Silva was brought in because Bidwell was too defensive last season and offered little going forward.

The current version of Bidwell offers a much better balance and we look stronger for it.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #393
Deity said:
Bidwell has been excellent since he came back in but it may have been being dropped that has given him more attacking ambition.

Da Silva was brought in because Bidwell was too defensive last season and offered little going forward.

The current version of Bidwell offers a much better balance and we look stronger for it.
Click to expand...
Bidwell was often one of our 3 most advanced players last season as a wing back, it's not a new thing

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: WestEndAgro, Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Saddlebrains and 7 others
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Cally Fedora

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #394
Systems. Largely irrelevant. Bidwell is in better form than DaSilva. Collins than Wilson. Kitching has settled. Allen and O’Hare back to fitness. Hence improvement.
 
Reactions: Otis and Martin180
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #395
fernandopartridge said:
Bidwell was often one of our 3 most advanced players last season as a wing back, it's not a new thing

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The issue last season wasn't not getting forward enough, it was that he didn't do enough in the advanced positions. His first move was often to check back.

This season he's making twice as many crosses, key passes, progressive carries, shot creating actions per game.
 
Reactions: Deity
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Deity

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #396
fernandopartridge said:
Bidwell was often one of our 3 most advanced players last season as a wing back, it's not a new thing

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
He rarely got a cross in last season …. The amount of crosses he now gets in is materially higher than last season .
 
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Deity

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #397
Cally Fedora said:
Systems. Largely irrelevant. Bidwell is in better form than DaSilva. Collins than Wilson. Kitching has settled. Allen and O’Hare back to fitness. Hence improvement.
Click to expand...
Systems being irrelevant is a very old fashioned view.

The days of managers throwing on their best eleven and just encouraging to play with freedom are long gone.

Its one of the reasons that Robins loves Allen. Evidently his ability to take on board the tactical and positional information given is higher than most in the squad.
 
Reactions: Martin180 and skybluecam

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #398
The cross he put in Friday at full pace was superb
 

DannyThomas_1981

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #399
Thoughts on recruitment:

We lost 3 of the best players I have seen in a City shirt in Vik, Hamer and Doyle over the summer.

Replacing that level of quality is incredibly difficult.

But improvements to our first team since last year = MVE, Kitching, Saka and O'Hare returning to fitness.

To now advance beyond last year and the loss of the big 3 we need to add to that and I see the following:

-A top class number 8 in the January window replacing Hamer

-Simms and Wright showing consistent improvement and gaining confidence

-The rumoured Prem wingers to add into the 4-3-3 system

Could be a very interesting season with the above - although honestly I'd be ok with a top 10 this season, targeting next season for a big run at the top 4. We're not far away with a couple of additions to the jigsaw.
 
Reactions: Martin180 and Deity

Saddlebrains

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #400
Deleted member 5849 said:
Alternatively, the fact we didn't do it earlier is because we'd been working on it in training to get it right.

I have a theory that part of the reason some players don't make it to the top isn't their actual technical football skill, it's their football brain and the fact they take longer to adapt to different things, such as formations, than the best of the best.
Click to expand...


Seems to have worked a treat Viveash insisting the players were in for training during the last break instead of gallavanting about with 10 days off like the previous 2
 
Reactions: Deity, procdoc and DannyThomas_1981

skybluecam

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #401
Evo1883 said:
The only surprising thing about that image is that bidwell gets more forward than van ewijk
Click to expand...
Most of Birmingham’s good attacking play was down the left through Dembele or Stansfield which would’ve pushed Milan back more.
 
Reactions: djr8369, TomRad85 and Terry_dactyl
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Cally Fedora

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #402
Deity said:
Systems being irrelevant is a very old fashioned view.

The days of managers throwing on their best eleven and just encouraging to play with freedom are long gone.

Its one of the reasons that Robins loves Allen. Evidently his ability to take on board the tactical and positional information given is higher than most in the squad.
Click to expand...
Why do the teams with the best players win more often?
 

Terry_dactyl

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #403
skybluecam said:
Most of Birmingham’s good attacking play was down the left through Dembele or Stansfield which would’ve pushed Milan back more.
Click to expand...
I was impressed with that Stansfield looked decent.
 
Reactions: GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee, Skybluedownunder and Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon
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Deity

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #404
Cally Fedora said:
Why do the teams with the best players win more often?
Click to expand...
Because they also have the best managers, coaches, facilities, tactics, etc ….

They wouldn’t win if they just turned up on the day without any prep and gave it a go …..

It is true that the best players can adapt to most systems etc but the days of Keegan, Harry Redknapp etc just giving them a motivational speech etc are long gone in my opinion.
 
Reactions: DazzleTommyDazzle, procdoc and skybluecam

skybluecam

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #405
Cally Fedora said:
Systems. Largely irrelevant. Bidwell is in better form than DaSilva. Collins than Wilson. Kitching has settled. Allen and O’Hare back to fitness. Hence improvement.
Click to expand...
Ridiculous comment.
 
Reactions: procdoc
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Cally Fedora

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #406
You need a system. But by and large other factors play a larger part. Form, momentum, confidence. Loads of debate as to whether we’re playing 4511, 4412 etc etc. Back four or five is about the extent that matters.
 
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skyblu3sk

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #407
Cally Fedora said:
Systems. Largely irrelevant. Bidwell is in better form than DaSilva. Collins than Wilson. Kitching has settled. Allen and O’Hare back to fitness. Hence improvement.
Click to expand...
One of the daftest things I have read for a while.
 
Reactions: procdoc
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Cally Fedora

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #408
Don’t believe the hype. It’s a simple game.
 
P

procdoc

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #409
Cally Fedora said:
Don’t believe the hype. It’s a simple game.
Click to expand...
Clubs may as well sack all of their analysts then.
 
Reactions: Deity and skybluecam

ccfc1234

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #410
Cally Fedora said:
Don’t believe the hype. It’s a simple game.
Click to expand...
While people can over hype situstions both positive and negative. It's hard to argue that the back 4 have played well as a unit and that Wright and Sakamoto have done far better in a 433. Wright up top, back to goal, looked lost.

I am more shocked given the type of players we signed that the change of formation seemed forced (due to results) rather than planned.
 
C

Cally Fedora

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #411
procdoc said:
Clubs may as well sack all of their analysts then.
Click to expand...
100%. The sizes and variations of back room staff is ridiculous.
 
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Deity

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #412
Cally Fedora said:
100%. The sizes and variations of back room staff is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
 
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tommy hutch legend

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #413
Cally Fedora said:
Don’t believe the hype. It’s a simple game.
Click to expand...
With a system
 
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Cally Fedora

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #414
Of course you have to have a system. My point is it’s out of control. Pivots, false nines, presses etc etc. It’s just good, intelligent technical play dressed up in endless nonsense.
 
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procdoc

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #415
Cally Fedora said:
Of course you have to have a system. My point is it’s out of control. Pivots, false nines, presses etc etc. It’s just good, intelligent technical play dressed up in endless nonsense.
Click to expand...
You couldn’t be more wrong
 
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Cally Fedora

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #416
In your opinion. The game is now analysed in minute detail which means pundits etc have to find things to say. These myths creep in. But 99% of it is just what you might call good play. Pass, find space, receive and repeat. Two of the most successful sides ever had systems simply built on that. Liverpool late 70’s early 80’s. Barcelona of a few years back.
 
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skyblu3sk

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #417
Cally Fedora said:
In your opinion. The game is now analysed in minute detail which means pundits etc have to find things to say. These myths creep in. But 99% of it is just what you might call good play. Pass, find space, receive and repeat. Two of the most successful sides ever had systems simply built on that. Liverpool late 70’s early 80’s. Barcelona of a few years back.
Click to expand...
Boosh?
 

Greggs

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #418
Cally Fedora said:
Why do the teams with the best players win more often?
Click to expand...
Because they usually have the best managers
 
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procdoc

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #419
Greggs said:
Because they usually have the best managers
Click to expand...
Someone should tell Pep Guardiola to sack his analysts and not plan for their opponents, he might be a successful manager then
 
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Cally Fedora

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 10, 2023
  • #420
So it’s down to his analysts then? Not that wherever he’s been he’s had the licence to hoover up talent without having to consider affordability?
 
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