Question Mark over Academy (1 Viewer)

[Thenose]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-academy-future-8760465

Charity which owns the site where players train wants to scrap indoor pitch after £80,000 repair bill emerged


The future of Coventry City FC’s Academy is uncertain after it emerged there was an issue with the indoor pitch at the site where they train.
The Academy has used the facilities at the Alan Higgs Centre, in Allard Way, Stoke Aldermoor, since it opened in 2004.
The indoor pitch at the site is now due to be replaced after it came to the end of its expected ten-year life-span.
But bosses at the Alan Higgs Centre Trust, which owns the site, are understood to be looking at alternative uses for the space after it emerged the bill to replace the playing surface would be about £80,000.
That would be a blow to Coventry City’s Academy which relies on the indoor facilities to train all year round when outdoor pitches freeze in the winter.
It could also put the club’s prized Academy Two status under threat – along with almost £500,000 in grant funding from the Premier League.
Coventry City officials have long spoken of their desire to build a new stadium and academy facility for the club on a new site in the Coventry area.


Meanwhile, the club has a rolling agreement with the Alan Higgs Centre Trust – but it is believed this short term approach has left charity bosses reluctant to commit to provide facilities geared towards what is viewed as a temporary tenant.
The charity is understood to be exploring alternative uses for the space so it can provide the best range of facilities possible to the community.
Bosses believe there are now ample five-a-side facilities elsewhere in the city and the centre should investigate other possibilities as it also looks to remain commercially competitive.
However, it is understood the charity could be willing to install a new indoor pitch if the football club agreed to pay for the resurfacing work.
The two parties have previously fallen out over maintenance costs at the site.
In July 2013 the club pulled the Academy out of the centre after a row over £12,000 for the maintenance of equipment over a two-year period.
In December 2013 the youth set-up returned to the £11million facility, originally built to house the club’s Academy, after the two parties agreed a 12-month rolling rent deal.

 

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[Ratty]

I don't understand why the club should be expected to pay for the resurface, they pay to rent the facility. If I rented a TV for 5 years that was then knackered, why on earth would I pay to replace the TV so I can continue to rent it?
Once again the Higgs is screwing the club over. If the club pays to resurface they should get a share of the rental from other bookings.

 

[Thenose]

I guess Higgs would be well perturbed if they spent £80k and then SISU said thanks, were off down the road to Binley park to train.

SISU hardly have a great reputation at paying rent. And again it all comes down to "The New Stadium", why is anyone going to invest on behalf of a tenant who may not be there next year.

Higgs have a duty to ensure they don't squander their assest

 

[ecky]

We used to hire the outdoor pitch for an hour note used to... Their charges are so high now we play in rugby on a better surface for half the price....

 

[Danceswithhorses]

I don't understand why the club should be expected to pay for the resurface, they pay to rent the facility. If I rented a TV for 5 years that was then knackered, why on earth would I pay to replace the TV so I can continue to rent it?
Once again the Higgs is screwing the club over. If the club pays to resurface they should get a share of the rental from other bookings.

deleted

 

[lifelongcityfan]

Why would anyone expect Higgs to shell out 80 k on a top class pitch ( as required by Acadamy Rules)when sisu state they are going to leave?

SISU happily paid to have Northampton pitch resurfaced- thye have the same option here if they want to continue playing

 

[SkyBlueScottie]

Remember folks, this isnt the Higgs charity...

 

[Nick]

Surely they would have known about the costs when they built it with the 10 year life span? It isn't that unexpected is it?

 

[M&B Stand]

Currently working in Wolverhampton, the council and wolves are jointly funding a state of the art soccer centre inside the ring road in the city centre on the site of an old hotel for use by their academy and the local community.
Would be great to have a club/council relationship like that.

 

[chiefdave]

It's not really a repair is it? The pitch has reached the end of its expected lifespan and needs replacing. Poor management and planning from Higgs if they haven't allowed for this. Just seems to be another way for them to stick two fingers up at SISU again while conveniently ignoring the damage it does to the club itself.

If they are expecting SISU to pay for it surely it should would be for the clubs exclusive use or the club would get a large % of any fees for other bookings.

 

[Nick]

Remember folks, this isnt the Higgs charity...

PWKH, Joe Elliott and John Mutton....

 

[chiefdave]

Remember folks, this isnt the Higgs charity...

A lot of the same people involved isn't there. Is it not similar in some ways to saying Otium are nothing to do with SISU?

 

[lifelongcityfan]

Surely they would have known about the costs when they built it with the 10 year life span? It isn't that unexpected is it?

missing the point...why spend 80k now when the future rental income is not assured.

 

[Noggin]

Surely they would have known about the costs when they built it with the 10 year life span? It isn't that unexpected is it?

They built it, used it for 10 years as expected all good.

Now they need to decide if they want to build it again, however with only a short term commitment to use the pitch think it may not be worth spending the money so are looking to see what else they can do with the space.

It's all completely reasonable albeit shitty news.

 

[chiefdave]

missing the point...why spend 80k now when the future rental income is not assured.

So is this pitch for the exclusive use of CCFC academy?

 

[steveecov]

Surely they would have known about the costs when they built it with the 10 year life span? It isn't that unexpected is it?

Maybe Wasps been secretly scrumming up there; studs and all.

 

[Noggin]

I don't understand why the club should be expected to pay for the resurface, they pay to rent the facility. If I rented a TV for 5 years that was then knackered, why on earth would I pay to replace the TV so I can continue to rent it?
Once again the Higgs is screwing the club over. If the club pays to resurface they should get a share of the rental from other bookings.

The club aren't being expected to pay for the resurface. The charity are saying we might not want to pay for a new pitch when you have only committed to use it for a short period of time.

It's not like you paying to replace the rented TV, its you rented for 5 years, 5 years is over, tv is crap and needs throwing away, you ask the company to buy a new tv so you can continue renting, they say how long are you planning to rent for, you say well at least a few months. They say no thanks sorry, we prefer not to buy a tv under that arrangement so our dealings will come to an end Unless you commit to renting for 5 years. You say no ty I'm planning to buy my own tv at some point, thats an equivalence to what is happening (at least based on that article, I have no insider knowledge)

 

[steveecov]

The club aren't being expected to pay for the resurface. The charity are saying we might not want to pay for a new pitch when you have only committed to use it for a short period of time.

It's not like you paying to replace the rented TV, its you rented for 5 years, 5 years is over, tv is crap and needs throwing away, you ask the company to buy a new tv so you can continue renting, they say how long are you planning to rent for, you say well at least a few months. They say no thanks sorry, we prefer not to buy a tv under that arrangement so our dealings will come to an end Unless you commit to renting for 5 years. You say no ty I'm planning to buy my own tv at some point, thats an equivalence to what is happening (at least based on that article, I have no insider knowledge)

Bit harsh on those outside trying to watch through your window.

 

[Noggin]

So is this pitch for the exclusive use of CCFC academy?

I don't think so no, but if the city academy provides the majority of the income from it then it could very easily be a bad financial decision if the club stopped using it in the near future.

 

[Nick]

The club aren't being expected to pay for the resurface. The charity are saying we might not want to pay for a new pitch when you have only committed to use it for a short period of time.

It's not like you paying to replace the rented TV, its you rented for 5 years, 5 years is over, tv is crap and needs throwing away, you ask the company to buy a new tv so you can continue renting, they say how long are you planning to rent for, you say well at least a few months. They say no thanks sorry, we prefer not to buy a tv under that arrangement so our dealings will come to an end Unless you commit to renting for 5 years. You say no ty I'm planning to buy my own tv at some point, thats an equivalence to what is happening (at least based on that article, I have no insider knowledge)

Said TV company is also letting random people in to watch the same TV and charging them for it as well..

 

[torchomatic]

Presumably, they hire it out for local five-a-sides, etc? Put up fees. Seems poor planning on behalf of the AHC to me.

 

[Ashdown]

What a state we are in now ! All this drama over an £80,000 pitch surface. We used to pay individual players that much in a month once upon a time. Surely if that was paid over a season it would hardly be noticed financially.............well it wouldn't if you were genuinely investing in the playing side of the club.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Higgs should do what is best for them. They are not responsible for the ccfc academy.

This is a mess for ccfc to sort out and no one else.

 

[Noggin]

Said TV company is also letting random people in to watch the same TV and charging them for it as well..

It was his analogy, I just got it as close as it could be to whats happening.

 

[duffer]

missing the point...why spend 80k now when the future rental income is not assured.

That's how I read this too. I'm not at all impressed with the Higgs's part in the Wasps shenanigans, but I can see the logic of what they are saying here. If they can make more money with something other than the indoor pitch, and the club are only going to commit to being at the centre for a year at a time, then the reluctance to commit to another 80k is understandable.

If it was anyone other than SISU and Higgs, you would imagine there would be a solution that suited both parties - a commitment to a longer rental deal with perhaps a few quid towards the pitch, perhaps. Or a shared income idea. However I can see why neither side trusts the other, and that is going to make it hard to thrash this out.

From a purely business point of view, paying 80k to guarantee 500k/p.a. funding seems like a no brainer, but I suspect there's more to it than that.

 

[torchomatic]

THey should also do the best for themselves. It's their pitch. Don't we pay rent? You would have thought any sensible landord would use their income for the upkeep of their properties?

Higgs should do what is best for them. They are not responsible for the ccfc academy.

This is a mess for ccfc to sort out and no one else.

 

[Noggin]

Presumably, they hire it out for local five-a-sides, etc? Put up fees. Seems poor planning on behalf of the AHC to me.

There is no reason to believe there has been poor planning, when it was built originally they would have had a long term commitment from the football club so it was worth building, now they have to build it again and without a long term commitment are perhaps not willing to do so. None of us have any idea on the financials of the agreement though to know how detrimental it would be to the centre if the academy stoped using it.

If the academy provide the majority of the income, then spending 80k could cause a massive loss if the football club stopped using it in a year. It's not unreasonable to ask for a long term commitment if you need to invest 80k in something.

 

[Ashdown]

I think SISU might bail out in the summer if we go down, maybe others do too. I don't think we'll be relegated as there are still four worse teams than us and we are yet to feel the new managers bounce. Our midfield is so weak though, surely has to be first on the agenda ?

 

[Noggin]

THey should also do the best for themselves. It's their pitch. Don't we pay rent? You would have thought any sensible landlord would use their income for the upkeep of their properties?

this is why some of you are seen to be so unreasonable, at least based on the information in that article higgs actions are completely reasonable and they are actions of a sensible landlord.

They have to make a business decision on whether to invest 80k in order to receive future rental income, the future rental income is at risk, so they decide not to invest the 80k and instead do something else with the property.

 

[italiahorse]

THey should also do the best for themselves. It's their pitch. Don't we pay rent? You would have thought any sensible landord would use their income for the upkeep of their properties?

They can't plan for CCFC being there so they need to look at the best use of it for the public.

I play there on Fridays and it is okay to play on but tatty in places. After all its only a carpet.
Not sure if Higgs are trying to get CCFC to commit for longer as there is another large hall for badminton etc.
Hopefully CCFC will commit for more years, effectively sharing the cost, and the problem will go away.

 

[bigfatronssba]

THey should also do the best for themselves. It's their pitch. Don't we pay rent? You would have thought any sensible landord would use their income for the upkeep of their properties?

Remind me who paid for Sixfields pitch again?

It's Higgs pitches, whatever they choose to do with them is up to them.

If they decide that pitch rental income could be better used on something else then why shouldn't they do that?

The world doesn't revolve around ccfc you know.

 

[shmmeee]

That article makes it sound like a good old fashioned shake down from AHC. Pay up or else.

I can understand their position, if the pitch is only viable with the Academy there, they can't rely on that alone.

I'd be honest, probably best for them to shut it down, CCFC have made it clear their long term future is elsewhere and therefore it's not worth either side paying out.

Easy to say they should factor it into the rental costs and should have known it's coming to an end, the point is it's only there because CCFC are. In the long run, as seen in the last few years, it's probably best for all if the club is going to act how it does for any ties to be severed so the impact is limited. Sad to say, but it made sense at the Ricoh and it makes sense here, no doubt other local suppliers are questioning how reliable the club's business is over the long term.

Like it or not, we were closely linked with Alan Higgs, if we're to stop that there's going to be sticking plasters like this that need pulling off.

Edit: One small point: not only the AHC but also CCFC would have known that the pitch will need replacing at this time. It's factors like this that should have been informing the timing of Joy's decision to make the club more independent (the relegation being another, also the likelihood of others sports franchises coming in - Wasps were long rumoured) instead of just going off Leeroy Jenkins style as soon as the idea came into her head. As so often with Sisu and Joy in particular, the terrible timing almost makes the question of the idea's quality moot.

 

[chiefdave]

Presumably, they hire it out for local five-a-sides, etc?

Assuming they do hire the pitch out then over the life of the pitch it works out to £154 a week. Wonder what the hire charge is and how many bookings that would equate to. Quick google (Higgs don't list prices on their website) would suggest a going rate of £50 - £100 per hour.

 

[lordsummerisle]

There is no reason to believe there has been poor planning, when it was built originally they would have had a long term commitment from the football club so it was worth building, now they have to build it again and without a long term commitment are perhaps not willing to do so. None of us have any idea on the financials of the agreement though to know how detrimental it would be to the centre if the academy stoped using it.

If the academy provide the majority of the income, then spending 80k could cause a massive loss if the football club stopped using it in a year. It's not unreasonable to ask for a long term commitment if you need to invest 80k in something.

Surely if they knew it had a 10 year lifespan they would put aside a percentage of income each year in reserves for replacement when the 10 years are up.

If they haven't, then it is bad planning.

 

[Noggin]

Surely if they knew it had a 10 year lifespan they would put aside a percentage of income each year in reserves for replacement when the 10 years are up.

If they haven't, then it is bad planning.

Higgs have the money to pay for the pitch, it's not bad planning it's sensible planning, they now have to decide if it's worth 80k for the next 10 years, without a long term commitment for the pitch to be used they think it might not be.