However I've read on several different occasions that the ultimate responsibility for this £14.4m DEBT lies with CCC & hence, tax-payers cash......
Is this actually true? And if so, how is this even legal/moral/acceptable.....surely this re-opens the "state-aid" question?
if acl can't pay the loan ccc would lose out but they would be able to pursue acl for the money, forcing the ricoh to be sold and getting what they are owed from it if necessary. I dont see there is significant risk to the councils money. the judge has already ruled the loan was ok, who the owners of acl are changes nothing.
As I understand it, the loan remains with ACL, the only thing that's changed is that Wasps now own ACL, rather than CCC/AEHC.
Wasps haven't taken the loan on as such - in other words it doesn't stand against their holding company. The risk here is that if Wasps goes pop though, and as a result ACL folds, then the loan is not repaid and CCC lose out. Indeed, if ACL folds for any other reason (perhaps say the other tenant, CCFC, folding or leaving), I guess that the council lose out.
Fisher's roadmap (even doomed as it was by SISU's negotiating style and the complete lack of trust between all of the parties) was arguably a much better deal in that it talked about clearing down the mortgage as part of taking over ACL. This would have left the council without the risk of losing money via the bailout.
Funny how it all turns out, eh.
if acl can't pay the loan ccc would lose out but they would be able to pursue acl for the money, forcing the ricoh to be sold and getting what they are owed from it if necessary. I dont see there is significant risk to the councils money. the judge has already ruled the loan was ok, who the owners of acl are changes nothing.
It's a fair point this, in that the lease would presumably revert to the Council if ACL fail. But who would they sell it to in that circumstance - presumably Wasps would have folded, and CCFC (certainly under SISU) aren't likely to want to pay full value for it, assuming that they haven't gone tits-up or moved on too...
I think it's far from certain that the Council would recover all of the bailout money here.
if acl can't pay the loan ccc would lose out but they would be able to pursue acl for the money, forcing the ricoh to be sold and getting what they are owed from it if necessary. I dont see there is significant risk to the councils money. the judge has already ruled the loan was ok, who the owners of acl are changes nothing.
I think it's pretty safe, The Ricoh has just been sold for 5.77mill with the loan in place and there were at least 2 bidders at that value. For the council not to get there money back they would need there to be no one willing to buy the Ricoh for £1 with the loan in place (a loan that would be smaller at this fictional point in the future).
If ACL went into administration the council would recover x amount in the £ for the loan. I would be very surprised if any bidder would pay its full amount through a takeover.
I think it's pretty safe, The Ricoh has just been sold for 5.77mill with the loan in place and there were at least 2 bidders at that value. For the council not to get there money back they would need there to be no one willing to buy the Ricoh for £1 with the loan in place (a loan that would be smaller at this fictional point in the future).
In the scenario I outlined, where Wasps have gone bust, and CCFC have moved on (or gone under, or can't or won't pay to take anything like this on), how could you guarantee someone being willing to take it over with a multi-million loan attached?
The current claim by the council is that ACL is just washing its face (i.e. barely breaking even). If you weren't running a sports team that was (or could be) based in the area would it really be a good purchase for say £10m - £14m?
I'm afraid that it simply isn't true, imho, to say that there's no risk to the council in still holding the mortgage.
This council claim "just washing its face"........ I wonder what that really means, wonder if some costs have been dumped on ACL that wont be in future. The 2014 accounts will perhaps explain better. What I do know is that the place is very busy and constantly looking for more staff.
There is a risk attached to every loan but equally usually plenty of security given too
Interestingly it would seem that of the main bodies involved only ACL and AEHC seem to running in the black recently.............. whereas CCC, Wasps, CCFC, the SISU investors (perhaps) all see to have very dirty faces
Lots of ifs and buts
always an element of truth in any spin torch ............. either something they want out there for some reason or something they want hidden behind the words...... all sides have been guilty of it. That's why we should always question why and not accept at face value...... match it to what we know to be true
do they need CCFC as it is currently set up or performing and the baggage it brings? .................. or is they would like but do not need under the new ACL owners?
I think it's pretty safe, The Ricoh has just been sold for 5.77mill with the loan in place and there were at least 2 bidders at that value. For the council not to get there money back they would need there to be no one willing to buy the Ricoh for £1 with the loan in place (a loan that would be smaller at this fictional point in the future).
There is risk, there is always risk, but there isn't significant risk imo.
First you need acl to go bust and wasps to go bust and ccfc to move out (which they won't be) or go bust (which we might) but then not be taken over by someone who wants the Ricoh (which we probably would be) and after all that you'd need nobody willing to take over the Ricoh for a pound with the loan attached.
It's not correct to describe it as a purchase of 10m-14m, it's a purchase of £1 for a company that has that liability and I think absolutely people would be willing to do that. If they fail they are not down 14m, acl just again goes into admin.
Wasps go bust - ACL goes into Admin. The lease probably reverts to the council at this point, although it may suit them to allow it to remain with ACL perhaps, depending on whether there's a deal to be done with someone else perhaps.
I was told on Sat that the loan value to debt needs two sporting entities playing at the Ricoh else the loan will default. The initial loan made by the council was paid off by wasps and a new one reissued
So basically ccc would do everything they can do to stop us building a new stadium to serve their own interests?
I was told on Sat that the loan value to debt needs two sporting entities playing at the Ricoh else the loan will default. The initial loan made by the council was paid off by wasps and a new one reissued
I was told on Sat that the loan value to debt needs two sporting entities playing at the Ricoh else the loan will default. The initial loan made by the council was paid off by wasps and a new one reissued
Maybe if it is true. Looks like wasps need us at the Ricoh
Maybe if it is true. Looks like wasps need us at the Ricoh
I never said it was true. Just what i was told.
We will never know unless the details of the loan are revealed, which i would also say are slim
It's a central government loan issued through a local authority. As it's not a matter of national security surely this info will be available with an FOI request?
Perhaps this is something Simon Gilbert could enquire about?
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