Proposal for Trust meeting this Monday (6 Viewers)

MichaelCCFC · Nov 2, 2013

To try to get beyond the bickering and create some unity around what we can agree on, kcic and CovBackToRicoh have jointly submitted this proposal -

Proposal to be put to the Sky Blue Trust Open Meeting on 4 November 2013

The Sky Blue Trust Board is asked to do the following.

1. Independent Inquiry. In order to apply pressure on all parties involved with CCFC and call to account all those responsible for the mess we are in, kcic plans to ask the Department for Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee to undertake an Inquiry into CCFC (going back to the 1990s) to use as a case study of problems facing English football. This initiative will be based on lobbying members of the Select Committee and a large scale petition involving fans of other clubs. The Trust Board is asked to encourage Trust members to support and help with this initiative.

2. Large scale City centre event. To promote unity among Sky Blue fans, the Trust Board is asked to organise a large scale City centre event as a follow up to the fantastic summer march and rally.

3. Big screen showing in Coventry, of the away game at Bradford on 17 November which is on Sky. As another way of creating fan unity, the Board is asked to organise a big screen showing of the Bradford game to enable those not travelling to the game to watch it on tv in the company of fellow City supporters.

4. Application for the Ricoh Arena to be transferred as an asset of community value. The Trust Board is asked to confirm that it is submitting an application, as has happened at other clubs such as Man Utd and Derby, and the timescale for doing so. This will give notice to all parties that the Ricoh is more than just an object of potential commercial value and profit.

Covstu · Nov 2, 2013

Agree with all four to be honest Michael. I think we need to get more and more people involved in number 2 and have a point to it i.e. walk from Town to the Ricoh up the A46 or from HR to Ricoh.

3 - mindful of the weather but don't you need entertainment licenses etc too?

4 - totally agree, this would stifle any proposed cashing in even if SISU took it over.

Calista · Nov 2, 2013

4 great ideas in my view. Getting support for the proposed “large scale event” may be difficult because everyone is so weary of the whole saga. I therefore suggest holding it in conjunction with the “big screen showing” of the Bradford match – I believe the two events combined would attract a much bigger following.

And before anyone starts, I asked for my account to be deleted a while back, but it doesn’t seem to have happened. Maybe this time the moderators will be kind enough this time to accept my post as being worthwhile.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 2, 2013

On point 4 even if it were possible, and I am not convinced as it presently stands it is, then could getting such a listing potentially delay a CCFC return to the Ricoh given that such a listing gives 6 months in order to bid? That six month delay could cost the owners (SISU or otherwise) something like 2 to 3m. With talks about to start could it actually hinder not help get our team back in Coventry - which is the most important thing isnt it? I would assume that if application made then any disposals are put on hold for the application period?

What does the application achieve, is it a priority and does it help to bring the team back?

Bringing the club back to Coventry asap is THE primary objective of SKy Blue Trust, KCIC, NOPM, CovBackToRicoh..... in deed just about every ccfc fan.

Just to be clear such an application does not affect just the freehold, it applies to any interest in land (eg short or long leasehold etc)

Not an expert in such applications so just asking, but before proceeding we need to know does it qualify and will it achieve what we all want most. Is it better to get the team back and then make the application?

shmmeee · Nov 2, 2013

Sorry, I think 1 & 4 are silly and ultimately won't lead anywhere, not help our club. The Community Asset seems to be more pie in the sky than an actual likelihood and as OSB says could harm any negotiations. The investigation seems like a fishing exercise and could be costly and wasteful to the club. Most would rather put the past in the past, serious investigation into football governance as a whole is needed and CCFC could be part of that, but on it's own I don't see the point, other than a few people are desperate to find something on GR.

2&3 would be very poorly attended, I'm not even sure 3 is possible with licensing. Any protest, especially as the two sides have just agreed to talk, would be hit by apathy and be without a clear message (KCIC? Well negotiations are ongoing.)

I think you do great stuff Michael, but right now just seems the wrong time to be trying this stuff, and if I'm honest seems a little self-aggrandising. We've all done an excellent job, we've just made progress, let's see where this goes first.

CJ_covblaze · Nov 2, 2013

Thanks Michael. All points noted and we'll discuss on Monday. 7.30 at the Squirell for anyone that wants to come along. Need as many minds and voices there as possible.

Calista · Nov 2, 2013

Having read some of the responses above, I agree that points 1 & 4 are risky. No way do we want the current (slim?) hopes of an agreement between the parties to be damaged. God I wish my club hadn’t got into this mess.

Still think 2 & 3 should be combined to have a better chance of mass support.

MichaelCCFC · Nov 2, 2013

shmmeee said:
Sorry, I think 1 & 4 are silly and ultimately won't lead anywhere, not help our club. The Community Asset seems to be more pie in the sky than an actual likelihood and as OSB says could harm any negotiations. The investigation seems like a fishing exercise and could be costly and wasteful to the club. Most would rather put the past in the past, serious investigation into football governance as a whole is needed and CCFC could be part of that, but on it's own I don't see the point, other than a few people are desperate to find something on GR.

2&3 would be very poorly attended, I'm not even sure 3 is possible with licensing. Any protest, especially as the two sides have just agreed to talk, would be hit by apathy and be without a clear message (KCIC? Well negotiations are ongoing.)

I think you do great stuff Michael, but right now just seems the wrong time to be trying this stuff, and if I'm honest seems a little self-aggrandising. We've all done an excellent job, we've just made progress, let's see where this goes first.

With the asset transfer it was funnily enough on here that I raised it and then got an email from the Trust chairman saying he was doing an application and asked kcic to support that rather than do a separate one. All will no doubt be revealed on Monday

MichaelCCFC · Nov 2, 2013

CJ_covblaze said:
Thanks Michael. All points noted and we'll discuss on Monday. 7.30 at the Squirell for anyone that wants to come along. Need as many minds and voices there as possible.

Cheers CJ. And as per email, great stuff on the ballboys/girls.

stupot07 · Nov 2, 2013

shmmeee said:
Sorry, I think 1 & 4 are silly and ultimately won't lead anywhere, not help our club. The Community Asset seems to be more pie in the sky than an actual likelihood and as OSB says could harm any negotiations. The investigation seems like a fishing exercise and could be costly and wasteful to the club. Most would rather put the past in the past, serious investigation into football governance as a whole is needed and CCFC could be part of that, but on it's own I don't see the point, other than a few people are desperate to find something on GR.

2&3 would be very poorly attended, I'm not even sure 3 is possible with licensing. Any protest, especially as the two sides have just agreed to talk, would be hit by apathy and be without a clear message (KCIC? Well negotiations are ongoing.)

I think you do great stuff Michael, but right now just seems the wrong time to be trying this stuff, and if I'm honest seems a little self-aggrandising. We've all done an excellent job, we've just made progress, let's see where this goes first.

Completely agree.

Additionally, I'm not convinced the Ricoh has done enough to become a community asset, its a corporate business that apart from the sky blues has little connection or involvement with the people of Coventry.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

thaiskyblue · Nov 2, 2013

stupot07 said:
Completely agree.

Additionally, I'm not convinced the Ricoh has done enough to become a community asset, its a corporate business that apart from the sky blues has little connection or involvement with the people of Coventry.

sounds just like sisu to me..........snap.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

GaryPendrysEyes · Nov 2, 2013

On 2. 'A Large scale City centre event' what would be the purpose/rallying call?

Nick · Nov 2, 2013

shmmeee said:
Sorry, I think 1 & 4 are silly and ultimately won't lead anywhere, not help our club. The Community Asset seems to be more pie in the sky than an actual likelihood and as OSB says could harm any negotiations. The investigation seems like a fishing exercise and could be costly and wasteful to the club. Most would rather put the past in the past, serious investigation into football governance as a whole is needed and CCFC could be part of that, but on it's own I don't see the point, other than a few people are desperate to find something on GR.

2&3 would be very poorly attended, I'm not even sure 3 is possible with licensing. Any protest, especially as the two sides have just agreed to talk, would be hit by apathy and be without a clear message (KCIC? Well negotiations are ongoing.)

I think you do great stuff Michael, but right now just seems the wrong time to be trying this stuff, and if I'm honest seems a little self-aggrandising. We've all done an excellent job, we've just made progress, let's see where this goes first.

Bang on I think.

MichaelCCFC · Nov 2, 2013

Nick said:
Bang on I think.

Always thought you were a big supporter of unity and bringing fans together Nick? [awaits, 'yes, but...'] lol!

Nick · Nov 2, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Always thought you were a big supporter of unity and bringing fans together Nick? [awaits, 'yes, but...'] lol!

I am, there is no but. I mainly agreed about one and four. Big screen would be good if done properly though I think.

I notice you didn't question anybody else agreeing with the original post?

jesus-wept · Nov 2, 2013

Big screen at the Ricoh could be one in the eye for Fisher and friends I suspect the gate woukd be pushing 10000

MichaelCCFC · Nov 2, 2013

Nick said:
I am, there is no but. I mainly agreed about one and four. Big screen would be good if done properly though I think.

I notice you didn't question anybody else agreeing with the original post?

Why would I question people who agree with my original post?! Are you going to be there on Monday? The new group guys seem good and everyone has to respect all that the Trust Board has done so hopefully should be a good night

Grendel · Nov 2, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Why would I question people who agree with my original post?! Are you going to be there on Monday? The new group guys seem good and everyone has to respect all that the Trust Board has done so hopefully should be a good night

If you are serious about registering as a community asset then I'm afraid the trust are clueless. This should be balloted to all members as this has to be stopped.

If the status is granted the clubs chances of returning to the Ricoh could be gone for ever.

blend · Nov 2, 2013

Grendel said:
If you are serious about registering as a community asset then I'm afraid the trust are clueless. This should be balloted to all members as this has to be stopped.

If the status is granted the clubs chances of returning to the Ricoh could be gone for ever.

I understand a little, not a lot, about community asset transfer. Can you explain why you think this would jeopardise the return of the club to the ricoh? I'm not trying to undermine your statement just learn a little more about this before making an informed decision.

Grendel · Nov 2, 2013

blend said:
I understand a little, not a lot, about community asset transfer. Can you explain why you think this would jeopardise the return of the club to the ricoh? I'm not trying to undermine your statement just learn a little more about this before making an informed decision.

Really this legislation was primarily introduced to give local community an attempt to register a bid for a local building such as a pub or shop. If you have this status you can have 6 months to match any bid and purchase as a co operative.

So what use is this here? If sisu actually offer a bid accepted by the council technically the members of the trust can delay purchase for 6 months to try and buy it themselves. This would never happen just delay the purchase which may lose the deal. If a deals agreed we need it to go through quickly. It's nothing to do with selling on the Ricoh after purchase. I can't see any legislation covering that

blend · Nov 2, 2013

Grendel said:
Really this legislation was primarily introduced to give local community an attempt to register a bid for a local building such as a pub or shop. If you have this status you can have 6 months to match any bid and purchase as a co operative.

So what use is this here? If sisu actually offer a bid accepted by the council technically the members of the trust can delay purchase for 6 months to try and buy it themselves. This would never happen just delay the purchase which may lose the deal. If a deals agreed we need it to go through quickly. It's nothing to do with selling on the Ricoh after purchase. I can't see any legislation covering that

Fairplay thanks, that seems correct to me. Only thing I would add to that is that the web site does actually state local football ground in the main introduction as follows. I agree that I cannot see immediately how it benefits our situation, but will keep an open mind.

Your community could use the Community Right to Bid to help save your local library, pub or football ground as well as: village shops former schools sports centres parks - See more at: http://mycommunityrights.org.uk/community-right-to-bid/#sthash.IvBo9hwD.dpuf

blend · Nov 2, 2013

Also, just to add further that once registered as a community asset, this would stay on a register for 5 years. This would apply to any further sell on after purchase within that time frame.

Many football supporters’ trusts are taking advantage of the opportunity to list community assets they care about. Manchester United Supporters Trust has scored a victory by securing Old Trafford stadium as as an Asset of Community Value. Oxford United’s fans have also succeeded in listing the club’s Kassam Stadium.
Should the current or any future owners decide to sell these stadia, it would give the supporters trusts a six-month period in which they could pause the sale and raise the funds for its purchase
- See more at: http://mycommunityrights.org.uk/cas...luable-community-assets/#sthash.zpRbRvYA.dpuf

Grendel · Nov 2, 2013

blend said:
Also, just to add further that once registered as a community asset, this would stay on a register for 5 years. This would apply to any further sell on after purchase within that time frame.

Many football supporters’ trusts are taking advantage of the opportunity to list community assets they care about. Manchester United Supporters Trust has scored a victory by securing Old Trafford stadium as as an Asset of Community Value. Oxford United’s fans have also succeeded in listing the club’s Kassam Stadium.
Should the current or any future owners decide to sell these stadia, it would give the supporters trusts a six-month period in which they could pause the sale and raise the funds for its purchase
- See more at: http://mycommunityrights.org.uk/cas...luable-community-assets/#sthash.zpRbRvYA.dpuf

Yes but ultimately its a delaying measure so are the trust saying they want to block purchase to sisu at any cost?

blend · Nov 2, 2013

I agree. I don't think that any current organisation of CCFC fans has enough members or money to make it worthwhile at present, so we would probably only have the power to delay. Not sure that helps really.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 2, 2013

Grendel said:
Yes but ultimately its a delaying measure so are the trust saying they want to block purchase to sisu at any cost?

And also more useful, surely, if already in private hands.

Am sure even if a deal is agreed with SISU, it wouldn't be without certain conditions put in anyway.

I do like the principle, but some of the objections against seem very fair also.

TurkeyTrot · Nov 2, 2013

My understanding is from reading this and other threads is the trust were looking into to benefits of getting the Ricoh listed as a community asset so where or why you would ask if the trust are saying they want to block purchase to SISU at any cost is quite beyond me but hey ho!

Nick · Nov 2, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Why would I question people who agree with my original post?! Are you going to be there on Monday? The new group guys seem good and everyone has to respect all that the Trust Board has done so hopefully should be a good night

I meant the one I agreed with....

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 2, 2013

Well I was reading it that that might be a consequence, rather than an intention.

CJ_covblaze · Nov 2, 2013

TurkeyTrot said:
My understanding is from reading this and other threads is the trust were looking into to benefits of getting the Ricoh listed as a community asset so where or why you would ask if the trust are saying they want to block purchase to SISU at any cost is quite beyond me but hey ho!

Precisely. Why would we purposely try to block the club from returning to where it should be?

Grendel · Nov 2, 2013

TurkeyTrot said:
My understanding is from reading this and other threads is the trust were looking into to benefits of getting the Ricoh listed as a community asset so where or why you would ask if the trust are saying they want to block purchase to SISU at any cost is quite beyond me but hey ho!

What are the benefits then?

TurkeyTrot · Nov 2, 2013

Grendel said:
What are the benefits then?

I dunno, the trust were/ are looking into them. I'm sure they'll give us a full insight when they have finished the process.

skybluewonderland · Nov 2, 2013

As I understand it, all assessing as a community asset means is that it allows whoever asks for it, 12 months to raise the funds to purchase the asset. Swansea spent years raising the minimal £100K for their ownership, and pompey sold the rights to land to developers, neither an option with the ricoh. Sadly I just cannot see any group being able to raise the kinds of monies required to purchase the arena. I suggest this is a really bad idea.

MichaelCCFC · Nov 2, 2013

Nick said:
I meant the one I agreed with....

Say who you want me to insult and I'll do my best! More seriously the protest phase is over but when our future lies in the hands of people whose concerns are politics/return on their investment, fan unity is important to ensure pressure is kept on all sides so the real priorities are the team and fans and building a successful and sustainable CCFC. You always have ideas on these things hence asking if you'll be able to make it on Monday cos hopefully should be good

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 2, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Say who you want me to insult and I'll do my best! More seriously the protest phase is over but when our future lies in the hands of people whose concerns are politics/return on their investment, fan unity is important to ensure pressure is kept on all sides so the real priorities are the team and fans and building a successful and sustainable CCFC. You always have ideas on these things hence asking if you'll be able to make it on Monday cos hopefully should be good

I can't even remember if you actually quit the board or not, but it seems as good a time as any to make my monthly plea for varying the days from Mondays

MichaelCCFC · Nov 2, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
I can't even remember if you actually quit the board or not, but it seems as good a time as any to make my monthly plea for varying the days from Mondays

Would say come along on Monday and suggest a different day but I guess there might be a bit of a flaw in that.

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