Potential outcomes of the judicial review... (1 Viewer)

spider_ricoh · Mar 29, 2014

As I see it...

SISU/CCFC win - the court might award damages to them from CCC.
Potential outcome 1: CCC offer Ricoh freehold in lieu of damages. SISU accept, club return to Ricoh under SISU ownership. Next question; do SISU offload both club and ground together as a single value-added package?
Potential outcome 2: CCC decline to trade Ricoh freehold for damages. Next question: do SISU make a new bid to buy the Ricoh, try to rent it, or continue with the "new stadium" plan?

CCC win - the funding of the ACL by the council is found legal and no damages due to SISU
Potential outcome 3: SISU bid to buy Ricoh in a new deal
Potential outcome 4: SISU agree short term rental deal with ACL with a view to later negotiations on buying a long lease / freehold
Potential outcome 5: SISU liquidate CCFC and walk away
Potential outcome 6: SISU proceed with new stadium plan
Potential outcome 7: SISU decide to sell CCFC to the highest bidder who later take us back to the Ricoh under a new deal with ACL

There is obviously likely to be more intermediate legal action after the initial judgement and the possibility for SISU to harass CCC in more ways, but ultimately boil down to these.

I, like most CCFC fans, am actively praying for magic option NUMBER 7!

skybluetony176 · Mar 29, 2014

The court for the JR doesn't have any powers to award damages. Anybody seeking damages will have to start new legal proceedings based on the outcome of the JR.

spider_ricoh · Mar 29, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
The court for the JR doesn't have any powers to award damages. Anybody seeking damages will have to start new legal proceedings based on the outcome of the JR.

Yes but surely SISU would do so if the court found against CCC, and if these were awarded the scenarios 1 and 2 are still in play

skybluetony176 · Mar 29, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
Yes but surely SISU would do so if the court found against CCC, and if these were awarded the scenarios 1 and 2 are still in play

No doubt about that. But if sisu win there is only one possible outcome. They start fresh proceedings for damages and another year rolls by playing at sixfields under the guise we are still homeless and building never never land.

Personally I'm holding out for a settlement/agreement on the court steps. Anything else is just going to bring more misery.

Rusty Trombone · Mar 29, 2014

I would imagine our current owners want the Ricoh, which CCC could offer, but they would also want the lease, and CCC cannot offer that on their own.

If they were willing to rent, I'd have thought they would be doing it now, it can't get much cheaper.

lapsed_skyblue · Mar 29, 2014

Even if. SISU "win" the JR it isn't necessarily good news for them. They will have to embark upon separate legal proceedings to gain compensation from CCC.
If the JR is decide upon a point of law or technicality the judge could still make a summation that undermines any claim that SISU could make.
If SISU decide to proceed with a claim for damages that judge could decide that the JR decision is irrelevant to SISU's claim and/or SISU did not do enough to mitigate their losses and award significantly less than SISU want.
Such litigation is fraught with delay and uncertainty which is why it is not uncommon for defendants with a good defence to settle rather than roll the dice on the outcome.
I am guessing that CCC will not seek a settlement unless the JR outcome is really damning on them: I don't think that SISU will move enough in their demands to make CCC settle.
I cannot see this being resolved before the start of next season.

fernandopartridge · Mar 29, 2014

The court cannot award damages to SISU as a result of the JR

whiteheadj · Mar 29, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
Yes but surely SISU would do so if the court found against CCC, and if these were awarded the scenarios 1 and 2 are still in play

Yes and take the council to court and sue for damages. Which leads to my next point of the money's going to come out of the tax paying citizens of coventry screwing them over again taking there money away from public services.

chiefdave · Mar 29, 2014

The JR has never seemed a good plan to me, needs too many things to go SISU's way. They have to win the JR, then they have to win a case for damages, then get awarded such a high level of damages CCC have to look to offer their share of ACL in payment and then they still only have 50% of ACL as Higgs would retain their share. For ACL to have any trouble as a result of the JR would need a judgement that CCC have to reverse the loan and for ACL to be unable to secure any other funding.

Just seems too many things have to go just the right way for SISU to end up where they want to be.

The only way this will be resolved any time soon is if it gets thrown out and SISU get told to stop wasting the courts time. Any other result and it will drag on for years yet.

shmmeee · Mar 29, 2014

chiefdave said:
The JR has never seemed a good plan to me, needs too many things to go SISU's way. They have to win the JR, then they have to win a case for damages, then get awarded such a high level of damages CCC have to look to offer their share of ACL in payment and then they still only have 50% of ACL as Higgs would retain their share.

If only there was a separate court case which stands to make Higgs owe them £290k plus costs. And if costs for fairly amicable negotiations (by Sisus standard) are £290k god know what they will be for the counterclaim and defence of Higgs' suit.

Might not be enough to cover the cost but should put some pressure on for quick cash.

chiefdave · Mar 30, 2014

If SISU were to 'win' the JR could it have an impact on other clubs? The Ricoh isn't the only ground that has or has had in the past council funding. Is a JR ruling applied across the board or would a JR have to be pursued on a case by case basis?

Jack Griffin · Mar 30, 2014

chiefdave said:
If SISU were to 'win' the JR could it have an impact on other clubs? The Ricoh isn't the only ground that has or has had in the past council funding. Is a JR ruling applied across the board or would a JR have to be pursued on a case by case basis?

My understanding is that it is a specific argument about the circumstances surrounding rescheduling the debt to Yorkshire Bank.

Madrid City Council however may have gone a bit too far! http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22037966

dongonzalos · Mar 30, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
The court cannot award damages to SISU as a result of the JR

They can order that SISU are to be compensated

letsallsingtogether · Mar 30, 2014

No 8 Sisu win get hold of the Ricoh and then rent it back to CCFC so going back full circle.

letsallsingtogether · Mar 30, 2014

They can also order that there is no appeals no matter who wins.

dongonzalos said:
They can order that SISU are to be compensated

Hobo · Mar 30, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
As I see it...

SISU/CCFC win - the court might award damages to them from CCC.
Potential outcome 1: CCC offer Ricoh freehold in lieu of damages. SISU accept, club return to Ricoh under SISU ownership. Next question; do SISU offload both club and ground together as a single value-added package?
Potential outcome 2: CCC decline to trade Ricoh freehold for damages. Next question: do SISU make a new bid to buy the Ricoh, try to rent it, or continue with the "new stadium" plan?

CCC win - the funding of the ACL by the council is found legal and no damages due to SISU
Potential outcome 3: SISU bid to buy Ricoh in a new deal
Potential outcome 4: SISU agree short term rental deal with ACL with a view to later negotiations on buying a long lease / freehold
Potential outcome 5: SISU liquidate CCFC and walk away
Potential outcome 6: SISU proceed with new stadium plan
Potential outcome 7: SISU decide to sell CCFC to the highest bidder who later take us back to the Ricoh under a new deal with ACL

There is obviously likely to be more intermediate legal action after the initial judgement and the possibility for SISU to harass CCC in more ways, but ultimately boil down to these.

I, like most CCFC fans, am actively praying for magic option NUMBER 7!

Who cares what anybody thinks, it is what the court decides that counts. Courts are contrary things, which is why companies like SISU know it's always worth a punt.

Lorksalordy · Mar 30, 2014

What I would be interested in is knowing realistic timescales associated with each of these (and any other possible scenarios). First one being - what is the average duration of a judicial review ? Really don't see how we can survive much more than another season away from home without terminal damage.

ccfcway · Mar 30, 2014

Lorksalordy said:
What I would be interested in is knowing realistic timescales associated with each of these (and any other possible scenarios). First one being - what is the average duration of a judicial review ? Really don't see how we can survive much more than another season away from home without terminal damage.

every senerio will take years, not months.

Lorksalordy · Mar 30, 2014

Thought as much myself - holy shit that is depressing

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