Possible Bidders Strategy (1 Viewer)

RogerH · Jun 6, 2013

Both the Haskell and Byng Consortiums will be well aware of the possibility that the administrator will award CCFC Ltd to SISU.

What do we think these two Consortiums would do in that event. Would they lose interest and melt away leaving us to a future (?) with SISU ? Or would they then approach SISU with a straight offer to take the Club over. I think in this situation, the two Consortiums should liaise together to prevent SISU creating an auction.

Thoughts ?

RPHunt · Jun 6, 2013

They might just wait until the club goes into administration again - before Christmas probably.

sky blue john · Jun 6, 2013

i am fully expecting Sisu to retain control and the spiraling debt cycle to continue.

Hobo · Jun 6, 2013

sky blue john said:
i am fully expecting Sisu to retain control and the spiraling debt cycle to continue.

Unfortunately I think you are right.

wingy · Jun 6, 2013

RogerH said:
Both the Haskell and Byng Consortiums will be well aware of the possibility that the administrator will award CCFC Ltd to SISU.

What do we think these two Consortiums would do in that event. Would they lose interest and melt away leaving us to a future (?) with SISU ? Or would they then approach SISU with a straight offer to take the Club over. I think in this situation, the two Consortiums should liaise together to prevent SISU creating an auction.

Thoughts ?

If he does that I would take it that SISU won't be up for sale afterwards.

The current scenario offers the auction ,after that there really is nothing of any value to sell ,if Ryton has already been sold as rumoured then its possible someone is already cashing in their chips ,Possibly.

skybluesam66 · Jun 6, 2013

wingy said:
If he does that I would take it that SISU won't be up for sale afterwards.

The current scenario offers the auction ,after that there really is nothing of any value to sell ,if Ryton has already been sold as rumoured then its possible someone is already cashing in their chips ,Possibly.

if that is the case - i really dont understand why they have been funding the wages since we went into admin - that is the real red herring

wingy · Jun 6, 2013

skybluesam66 said:
if that is the case - i really dont understand why they have been funding the wages since we went into admin - that is the real red herring

If they hadn't wouldn't it be the case that the whole group is in admin.

dongonzalos · Jun 6, 2013

The greatest trick the devil ever played.....

You need to believe they have a future plan otherwise you will bid next to nothing for Ltd.

dongonzalos · Jun 6, 2013

Having now seen that the debenture covers all future purchases by SISU. I even think they may buy the land as part of the bluff

sky blue john · Jun 6, 2013

dongonzalos said:
Having now seen that the debenture covers all future purchases by SISU. I even think they may buy the land as part of the bluff

i now don't believe it to be a bluff !!!
they will borrow from Arvo of which ccfc will be making repayments. Not only will we be paying the mortgage but they will charge us
rent also. To top it off we will be paying Sisu a handling admin fee !!!

RPHunt · Jun 6, 2013

sky blue john said:
i now don't believe it to be a bluff !!!
they will borrow from Arvo of which ccfc will be making repayments. Not only will we be paying the mortgage but they will charge us
rent also. To top it off we will be paying Sisu a handling admin fee !!!

What makes you think ARVO have got the money to lend to CCFC?

shmmeee · Jun 6, 2013

RPHunt said:
What makes you think ARVO have got the money to lend to CCFC?

The fact that they've been funding multimillion pound losses for the last few years?

(You realise ARVO is Sisu right?)

Available cash has never been the question. Making the club self-sustaining has.

Bluegloucester · Jun 6, 2013

shmmeee said:
The fact that they've been funding multimillion pound losses for the last few years?

(You realise ARVO is Sisu right?)

Available cash has never been the question. Making the club self-sustaining has.

The cash has to run out eventually

sky blue john · Jun 6, 2013

Bluegloucester said:
The cash has to run out eventually

They are not putting in as much as you may think. They are just covering the short fall each year. The reason the debt is going up massively is due to interest and fees.

You only have to look at ryton being mortgaged and then season tickets always being factored. In fact any money ccfc spend whether its on wages or any bills there will be interest and admin fees to pay.

sky blue john · Jun 6, 2013

For all we know for every £1 spent by ccfc it could cost us £1.50 or more !!!

RPHunt · Jun 6, 2013

shmmeee said:
The fact that they've been funding multimillion pound losses for the last few years?

(You realise ARVO is Sisu right?)

Available cash has never been the question. Making the club self-sustaining has.

I do realise that ARVO is SISU and I also realise that SISU have no money - why should ARVO have any? ARVO has only been around for a couple of years and there is no evidence that it has been funding " multimillion pound losses ".

torchomatic · Jun 6, 2013

I'm sure they'll do what SISU did and move onto the next prospective club to purchase.

Bluegloucester · Jun 6, 2013

torchomatic said:
I'm sure they'll do what SISU did and move onto the next prospective club to purchase.

Who? ........

grego_gee · Jun 6, 2013

Bluegloucester said:
Who? ........

ACL?

imp:

edgy · Jun 6, 2013

RPHunt said:
I do realise that ARVO is SISU and I also realise that SISU have no money - why should ARVO have any? ARVO has only been around for a couple of years and there is no evidence that it has been funding " multimillion pound losses ".

How do you come to that conclusion? You do realise that SISU is not CCFC, right?

RPHunt · Jun 6, 2013

edgy said:
How do you come to that conclusion? You do realise that SISU is not CCFC, right?

What other conclusion would I reach when I read their accounts, they do not have any money. Forget the hedge fund they manage, that is their investors' money. Any investment fund, even one as lightly regulated as a hedge fund, that used investors' money to prop up another ailing investment would attract the regulator's attention.

Bluegloucester · Jun 6, 2013

RPHunt said:
What other conclusion would I reach when I read their accounts, they do not have any money. Forget the hedge fund they manage, that is their investors' money. Any investment fund, even one as lightly regulated as a hedge fund, that used investors' money to prop up another ailing investment would attract the regulator's attention.

Maybe the regulator does not know about the misuse of funds?

RPHunt · Jun 6, 2013

Bluegloucester said:
Maybe the regulator does not know about the misuse of funds?

Probably a good idea not to go down this road. You can be sure investors will be studying the regular reports of where the fund is invested - particularly when it has been losing them money for the last 5 years.

Bluegloucester · Jun 6, 2013

RPHunt said:
Probably a good idea not to go down this road. You can be sure investors will be studying the regular reports of where the fund is invested - particularly when it has been losing them money for the last 5 years.

Are we sure they know about each individual investment?

torchomatic · Jun 6, 2013

As long as they can make money then I'm sure they're not bothered.

Bluegloucester said:
Who? ........

grego_gee · Jun 6, 2013

RPHunt said:
What other conclusion would I reach when I read their accounts, they do not have any money. Forget the hedge fund they manage, that is their investors' money. Any investment fund, even one as lightly regulated as a hedge fund, that used investors' money to prop up another ailing investment would attract the regulator's attention.

Who's the regulator? isn't that the fat guy from Thomas the Tank Engine?

imp:

chiefdave · Jun 6, 2013

RPHunt said:
Probably a good idea not to go down this road. You can be sure investors will be studying the regular reports of where the fund is invested - particularly when it has been losing them money for the last 5 years.

If the money is still showing as owed to AVRO or whatever other fund it came from then strictly speaking has any money actually been lost? If I owed the bank 100K on my mortgage the bank hasn't lost that much, I just haven't paid it yet!

RPHunt · Jun 6, 2013

Bluegloucester said:
Are we sure they know about each individual investment?

I am not entirely sure of the reporting requirements as they apply (currently) to hedge funds but other funds are required to provide details and I suspect the same would apply to hedge funds either under NYSE or LSE regulation. In any case, hedge funds will be more tightly regulated from next month and will be brought into line with most other types of funds.

Bluegloucester · Jun 6, 2013

RPHunt said:
I am not entirely sure of the reporting requirements as they apply (currently) to hedge funds but other funds are required to provide details and I suspect the same would apply to hedge funds either under NYSE or LSE regulation. In any case, hedge funds will be more tightly regulated from next month and will be brought into line with most other types of funds.

The funds are not listed, therefore no requirement to provide details. Doubt they have any UK investors.

RPHunt · Jun 6, 2013

Bluegloucester said:
The funds are not listed, therefore no requirement to provide details. Doubt they have any UK investors.

They are required to provide these details to investors but there is no obligation to make them public. The last I heard, the hedge fund was 95% owned by the Kuwait government pension fund - a potentially unfortunate situation for both parties. If the pension fund wished to withdraw its money, it might prove difficult to realise anything like the quoted values for the underlying investments as most of these will probably be in unquoted and/or illiquid stocks. And if they did withdraw their money in spite of this, then SISU would have a massive problem.

Houdi · Jun 6, 2013

Not sure if it has been mentioned elsewhere on this forum,but possibly quite an interesting development today is the news that Coventry Council have dropped their opposition to HS2.Since the route bypasses Coventry,it is hard to see why they have suddenly made this move.However the Michael Byng bid is tied up with his investors wishing to get 'involved' in the HS2 project,and indeed re-open old rail links in Warwickshire.Maybe the council wishes to do everything in its power to encourage/aid his bid,particularly if they hope it leads to greater investment around the Ricoh area.

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