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possible after JR scenario ? (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter sky blue john
  • Start date Apr 23, 2014
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #71
Grendel said:
It depends on the funding structure the club is receiving. Also if the football go down it will re emerge. ACL in the real world will not have that luxury.
Click to expand...

The club would be receiving millions more from the fans if it hadn't relocated itself. ACL could charge us a good £3m in rent and we would still be better off at the Ricoh for crying out loud.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #72
ccfcway said:
someone should tell Ms Garlick then
Click to expand...

Wrong. The official position is that the Ricoh is the preferred option but if that is not attainable other avenues will be explored.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #73
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The club would be receiving millions more from the fans if it hadn't relocated itself. ACL could charge us a good £3m in rent and we would still be better off at the Ricoh for crying out loud.
Click to expand...

Given that losses were at least £7 million a year when the average crowd was nearly 20,000 and rent was half that I would say that is debatable.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #74
Grendel said:
Wrong. The official position is that the Ricoh is the preferred option but if that is not attainable other avenues will be explored.
Click to expand...

So it's true that they aren't currently exploring other avenues. Someone should tell the FL, we'll be back at the Ricoh before you can say judicial review.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #75
Grendel said:
Given that losses were at least £7 million a year when the average crowd was nearly 20,000 and rent was half that I would say that is debatable.
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What percentage of those losses are directly attributed to the rent?
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #76
Grendel said:
I had better get this over to Mark. You are clearly an expert -- it will save them a fortune in legal bills.
Click to expand...

Like you I am not an expert. However also LIKE you, I have agreed that one party alone are not to blame for all of this mess.

The application of remedies once a Judicial review has been won are governed by the discretion of the judge decides to use it......

The discretionary nature means that even if a court finds a public body has acted wrongly, it does not have to grant any remedy. Examples of where discretion will be exercised against an applicant may include where the applicant’s own conduct has been unmeritorious or unreasonable.

So there is always the potential when someone wins a judicial review that nothing changes including reversing the decision.

I would be stunned if Mark was not aware of that.
 
Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #77
Grendel said:
Given that losses were at least £7 million a year when the average crowd was nearly 20,000 and rent was half that I would say that is debatable.
Click to expand...

An extra 10,000 on the gate equates to a good £3.5-4m a season extra in ticket money, ignoring any rises in merchandising or sponsorship associated with the return. Rent at Northampton is what, £100k? We would have more money left over at the end of the year, I suspect.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #78
fernandopartridge said:
if the council are found to have acted unlawfully in the JR, who realistically would want to enter any sort of relationship with them?
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Answering hypothetical questions is a rather pointless exercise. You might just as well ask if SISU are suitable custodians of the club if the result of the JR is that there is no case to answer.
 
Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2014

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #79
Grendel said:
Given that losses were at least £7 million a year when the average crowd was nearly 20,000 and rent was half that I would say that is debatable.
Click to expand...


I suspect the wage bill comparison would be interesting between now and then ?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #80
sky blue john said:
Yes but doesn't that probably defeat their objective of ownership. And haven't they already had low rental offers which they have rejected ?
Click to expand...

Was referring to ACL john .
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #81
skybluetony176 said:
What percentage of those losses are directly attributed to the rent?
Click to expand...

The vast majority are attributable to the actual rental arrangement. If the club had full access to the ground 365 days a year these losses would be obliterated.

Your statement is curious. It seems to suggest the club should have significantly reduced its budget on players to support the unworkable arrangement. Given even with the average wage budget we had at the time left us uncompetitive on the field the natural conclusion is you'd happily have accepted relegation years ago as long as ACL received their pound of flesh.
 
T

thegameaintstraight

New Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #82
Grendel said:
Wrong. The official position is that the Ricoh is the preferred option but if that is not attainable other avenues will be explored.
Click to expand...

So we can take it that "other avenues" are not being explored at the moment.
Did you really mean that and if so who told you, or is it just careless use of english?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #83
skybluetony176 said:
So it's true that they aren't currently exploring other avenues. Someone should tell the FL, we'll be back at the Ricoh before you can say judicial review.
Click to expand...

A typically absurd statement minute Tony. The club have to explore these as a last resort if the enforced eviction continues.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #84
Grendel said:
The vast majority are attributable to the actual rental arrangement. If the club had full access to the ground 365 days a year these losses would be obliterated.

Your statement is curious. It seems to suggest the club should have significantly reduced its budget on players to support the unworkable arrangement. Given even with the average wage budget we had at the time left us uncompetitive on the field the natural conclusion is you'd happily have accepted relegation years ago as long as ACL received their pound of flesh.
Click to expand...

My "statement" wasn't a statement, it was a question.

A question you didn't answer.

The rest of the nonsense you spouted was all your own work.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #85
Grendel said:
A typically absurd statement minute Tony. The club have to explore these as a last resort if the enforced eviction continues.
Click to expand...

We haven't been evicted Grendo and you know it.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #86
Grendel said:
A typically absurd statement minute Tony. The club have to explore these as a last resort if the enforced eviction continues.
Click to expand...

Did ACL evict them?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #87
Grendel said:
A typically absurd statement minute Tony. The club have to explore these as a last resort if the enforced eviction continues.
Click to expand...

You've gone all Billy big balls since meeting ML. It was you who made the statement that the club are not exploring other avenues. My response was warranted given that the FL have been given assurances from the club that they are exploring other avenues. Enforced eviction my arse. What happened in this meeting? Was it like the scene in zoolander where he got brainwashed?
 

skybluefred

New Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #88
Grendel said:
I am not a legal expert so therefore cannot comment on what is likely to happen. Clearly there is an intention to argue a case and pursue actions against the Council for damages. They have a case, clearly, will it achieve the desired outcome who knows.

If they win the council will, I am sure become more entrenched in their position regarding the stadium. I believe they would refuse to sell whatever the price -- they cannot make that leap. If Sisu, it is hard to predict the next action.


You have me confused. Can you tell what damages sisu have accrued and how they accrued them?.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #89
Grendel said:
A typically absurd statement minute Tony. The club have to explore these as a last resort if the enforced eviction continues.
Click to expand...

I'd love to hear what the Judge says about that if SISU make that claim at the JR hearing..
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #90
RegTheDonk said:
Did ACL evict them?
Click to expand...

Yeah, didn't you know. The footage of men emptying the club shop and loading it into vans before the end of last season was bailiffs appointed by ACL.

;-)
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #91
skybluetony176 said:
My "statement" wasn't a statement, it was a question.

A question you didn't answer.

The rest of the nonsense you spouted was all your own work.
Click to expand...

I did answer the question minuscule Tony. Yes it was mostly to do with the rental arrangement.

Your defence of your paymasters is noted.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #92
Brighton Sky Blue said:
We haven't been evicted Grendo and you know it.
Click to expand...

Insisting the club’s survival depends on income streams from a stadium and land denied to it by the council, Ms Seppala continued: “Plan A is building a new stadium. There is something very exciting about building something that is a new beginning. It feels like the club is at a new beginning.

“There is no way we would go back to a rental deal. As I have said to the Football League when they asked recently if we would do a temporary arrangement, it would be irrational to return on an interim basis where I have any exposure to Coventry City Council whatsoever.
 

skybluefred

New Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #93
Grendel said:
A typically absurd statement minute Tony. The club have to explore these as a last resort if the enforced eviction continues.
Click to expand...

Please tell me who forced an eviction. nb I already know it wasn't the CCC or ACL so do please enlighten.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #94
Grendel said:
I did answer the question minuscule Tony. Yes it was mostly to do with the rental arrangement.

Your defence of your paymasters is noted.
Click to expand...

What was the percentage grendull. That was the question you didn't answer and won't.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #95
dongonzalos said:
Insisting the club’s survival depends on income streams from a stadium and land denied to it by the council, Ms Seppala continued: “Plan A is building a new stadium. There is something very exciting about building something that is a new beginning. It feels like the club is at a new beginning.

“There is no way we would go back to a rental deal. As I have said to the Football League when they asked recently if we would do a temporary arrangement, it would be irrational to return on an interim basis where I have any exposure to Coventry City Council whatsoever.
Click to expand...

There we have it, in a nutshell, why we're playing in Northampton-a personal agenda of our owner against the council. Eviction implies that ACL booted us out-yet our club badge is still on the ground and the seats inside still spell 'Sky Blues'...
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #96
Sisu boss Joy Seppala turned down a deal which could have brought the Sky Blues back to the Ricoh – rent-free for the rest of the season.

The offer was made by ACL before council leader Ann Lucas met for talks with Sisu boss Seppala.

It is understood the proposal could have seen the Sky Blues play rent free until the end of this season – and £100,000 for each of the next two seasons if they remained in League One.

The club complains the proposal failed to offer the loss-making club any vital stadium revenues, and would still have seen them paying other matchday costs totalling £320,000 a year.

The plan was presented as an alternative to Sisu/Otium playing Coventry City’s ‘home’ matches at Northampton for three to five years, while building a new stadium in Warwickshire.

It is understood the club pays above £150,000 a year to play at Northampton’s Sixfields ground, where attendances of less than 2,000 compare with last season’s 10,000 Ricoh gates, adding to the club’s financial losses.

The latest rent proposal was revealed in a Guardian newspaper report.

In the summer ACL had made a rent offer of £400,000 via administrator Paul Appleton, down from the £1.3million rent the club had partly stopped paying, complaining it was extortionate.

Mark Labovitch, Otium’s non-executive director, said: “We clearly understood from Ann’s statement on October 30 that she was prepared to discuss ownership. We were surprised when that turned out not to be the case.

“We were equally surprised at the way ACL directors, the council executives Martin Reeves and Chris West, did not communicate this change of heart to us in a direct and straightforward way, but did so instead with off-record whispers on a fans’ podcast, the Nii Lamptey show.

“We have made it clear that no club can have a viable financial future unless it owns its own stadium.

“There is no prospect of us returning to the former landlord/tenant relationship with ACL, a company which bled the club dry for many years over two generations of owners, and wilfully sought to damage the club with actions which led to needless points deductions over the last two seasons.

“Such inexplicable actions have severely damaged our promotion chances. It is a credit to Steven Pressley and the players that so much of the damage caused by ACL has been made good.

“Joy’s door is open to Ann for further discussions. But we would have to be clear this time that it would be a discussion about stadium ownership.”

“In the absence of a clear commitment to discuss ownership, we are pressing ahead with the plans for our new stadium on the outskirts of Coventry.”

An ACL spokesman said: “A further attempt to bring the Sky Blues home to Coventry was made recently by Arena Coventry Limited.

"A rent-free offer, with the club only paying matchday costs, was made via the Football League, who offered to act as brokers to a deal.

"The offer was made on the basis that the club could come back to Coventry immediately and then negotiations of a more permanent settlement could begin again in earnest. At present, no formal response has been received.

“ACL would of course welcome the Sky Blues back to their home stadium and are available to do so at short notice. We have an open door policy on discussions to achieve this and will make every effort to do so if called upon.

"At present we are focused on running our business as we head into the busy Christmas and New Year period and look forward to hearing from the football club.”
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #97
This indicates to me and with the seppala interview given to the CET before this offer, it's just a personal feud and to quote seppala " this isn't to distress ACL as even if they went bust then they can sell to whoever and CCC candidate to whom. "

I actually agree with her on this as there is so much hatred now that sisu will never own the Ricoh period. I can 100% assure every SBT man that sisu will never own the Ricoh. It won't happen and sisu know this or must know this. I really see them running out of options and The JR is one last throw of the dice even if it's worth it. The fact is sisu have mismanaged the whole situation and have only themselves to blame as it stops with them. If I make a mistake it's my fault not someone else's.

Fans get caught up in this shit and it's horrible. I see sisu running off after the JR or something has to give. They can't continue at Northampton losing more and more Fans from the few that remain and losing millions. This won't happen as they can't keep losing as any business can't keep losing millions. Surely.
 

skyblueinBaku

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #98
Grendel said:
A typically absurd statement minute Tony. The club have to explore these as a last resort if the enforced eviction continues.
Click to expand...
There was no eviction, forced or otherwise, Grendel and you know it. Why do you persist in propogating this myth?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #99
Kingokings204 said:
This indicates to me and with the seppala interview given to the CET before this offer, it's just a personal feud and to quote seppala " this isn't to distress ACL as even if they went bust then they can sell to whoever and CCC candidate to whom. "

I actually agree with her on this as there is so much hatred now that sisu will never own the Ricoh period. I can 100% assure every SBT man that sisu will never own the Ricoh. It won't happen and sisu know this or must know this. I really see them running out of options and The JR is one last throw of the dice even if it's worth it. The fact is sisu have mismanaged the whole situation and have only themselves to blame as it stops with them. If I make a mistake it's my fault not someone else's.

Fans get caught up in this shit and it's horrible. I see sisu running off after the JR or something has to give. They can't continue at Northampton losing more and more Fans from the few that remain and losing millions. This won't happen as they can't keep losing as any business can't keep losing millions. Surely.
Click to expand...

I can't see Ccfc (whoever owns us) ever owning the Ricoh or even the 100% leasehold. I came see the council ever relinquishing their share in ACL and they certainly won't sell the freehold.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #100
stupot07 said:
I can't see Ccfc (whoever owns us) ever owning the Ricoh or even the 100% leasehold. I came see the council ever relinquishing their share in ACL and they certainly won't sell the freehold.
Click to expand...

If Mr Haskel had succeeded?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #101
dongonzalos said:
If Mr Haskel had succeeded?
Click to expand...

he'd have just bought Higgs out and possibly some land.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #102
dongonzalos said:
If Mr Haskel had succeeded?
Click to expand...

At the meeting I had one non sisu related attendee co formed that Haskell was never ever going to buy the club - never had enough equity. Your not a great judge of character are you?
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #103
Grendel said:
At the meeting I had one non sisu related attendee co formed that Haskell was never ever going to buy the club - never had enough equity. Your not a great judge of character are you?
Click to expand...

I didn't judge his character
I asked if he had succeeded do you think ACL would have been sold to him?
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 23, 2014
  • #104
stupot07 said:
he'd have just bought Higgs out and possibly some land.
Click to expand...

Could CCFC have survived with that deal?
 
Last edited: Apr 23, 2014

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 24, 2014
  • #105
dongonzalos said:
I didn't judge his character
I asked if he had succeeded do you think ACL would have been sold to him?
Click to expand...

Depends - he may have offered a pound for ACL in which case yes.
 
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