possible after JR scenario ? (1 Viewer)

sky blue john · Apr 23, 2014

Lets say that Sisu win the JR and then sue the council for damages.
It still doesn't guarantee them the stadium or that we would be back at the Ricoh.
Have you thought they may just take the compensation then liquidate CCFC and take whatever else they can.
They have already taken Ryton they could sell whatever players they could, the golden share and be off. Leaving us in division one with nothing !!

Grendel · Apr 23, 2014

sky blue john said:
Lets say that Sisu win the JR and then sue the council for damages.
It still doesn't guarantee them the stadium or that we would be back at the Ricoh.
Have you thought they may just take the compensation then liquidate CCFC and take whatever else they can.
They have already taken Ryton they could sell whatever players they could, the golden share and be off. Leaving us in division one with nothing !!

Oh look another intelligent thread

fernandopartridge · Apr 23, 2014

sky blue john said:
Lets say that Sisu win the JR and then sue the council for damages.
It still doesn't guarantee them the stadium or that we would be back at the Ricoh.
Have you thought they may just take the compensation then liquidate CCFC and take whatever else they can.
They have already taken Ryton they could sell whatever players they could, the golden share and be off. Leaving us in division one with nothing !!

Why would they sue the council for damages?

What level of damages do you foresee them getting?

torchomatic · Apr 23, 2014

Why would they liquidate the club? Not another scaremongering, made-up load of old tosh, is it?

sky blue john said:
Lets say that Sisu win the JR and then sue the council for damages.
It still doesn't guarantee them the stadium or that we would be back at the Ricoh.
Have you thought they may just take the compensation then liquidate CCFC and take whatever else they can.
They have already taken Ryton they could sell whatever players they could, the golden share and be off. Leaving us in division one with nothing !!

Grendel · Apr 23, 2014

torchomatic said:
Why would they liquidate the club? Not another scaremongering, made-up load of old tosh, is it?

Surely not! From sky blue John?!! Never!!!

sky blue john · Apr 23, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Why would they sue the council for damages?

What level of damages do you foresee them getting?

I don't know I am just looking at possible outcomes scenarios opening serious debate.
Do you think Sisu will not try and claim damages. They are just going through the JR process for the Coventry tax payer ?

shy_tall_knight · Apr 23, 2014

Grendel thought after you wrongly said Fleck had scored twice this season, you would calm down a bit rather than just ranting at fellow fans . Go on contribute to the post what do you think will happen if SISU win the JR ?

sky blue john · Apr 23, 2014

torchomatic said:
Why would they liquidate the club? Not another scaremongering, made-up load of old tosh, is it?

Yes a lot of people have claimed to be going to Sixfields so that Sisu don't liquidate the club !!
Sisu have threatened to liquidate the club in the past !!
I never saw it as an option before but if by some way they got a big pay out they might not care ?

sky blue john · Apr 23, 2014

Grendel come on shed some light from your secret meeting ?
Even if they win the JR the Ricoh revenue streams are overly complex, they may not bother.

chiefdave · Apr 23, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Why would they sue the council for damages?

Suing would generally be the next step if they won. However they might come unstuck here as they'd be looking at making a claim for loss of income or something similar. It would then be pointed out that they weren't evicted and the vast majority of the income losses were caused by their own actions, it wouldn't be a case of if those actions were justified or not, it would be up to SISU to prove that as a result of the loan made by the council they were forced to leave.

We all know that offers have been made, including through third parties, for them to stay which would make it an uphill battle for them to achieve the level of damages that would see them either get their money back or an offer of the Ricoh in lieu of payment.

torchomatic said:
Why would they liquidate the club? Not another scaremongering, made-up load of old tosh, is it?

What makes you think that if liquidation was going to give them the best return they wouldn't do it? It is of course a highly unlikely scenario, to say the least, but that doesn't mean it should be totally ruled out.

Grendel · Apr 23, 2014

sky blue john said:
Grendel come on shed some light from your secret meeting ?
Even if they win the JR the Ricoh revenue streams are overly complex, they may not bother.

I was told by ML that they do have a plant on here.
The tactic is to have a poster making deranged hyperbole remarks that are so extreme fans will eventually see that all council supporters are lunatics.
Its a big secret who it is other than the guy is a Luton supporter and has an avatar of a player from the 1980's.

sky blue john · Apr 23, 2014

Grendel said:
I was told by ML that they do have a plant on here.
The tactic is to have a poster making deranged hyperbole remarks that are so extreme fans will eventually see that all council supporters are lunatics.
Its a big secret who it is other than the guy is a Luton supporter and has an avatar of a player from the 1980's.

At least that was funny !!!!

The Prefect · Apr 23, 2014

Something tells me that the JR only affects the funding of ACL. A win for SISU may mean the Yorkshire Bank take back the mortgage. As the club was ACL's tenant it is difficult to see how SISU could sustain damages based on their landlord's funding. The club they were running went into administration and their new 'football club' did a deal with Northampton so hasn't been damaged in any way.

There doesn't seem to be a case to answer for SISU to claim damages but if they do win I can see them making good on JS's promise to litigate... To what end I'm not sure.

dongonzalos · Apr 23, 2014

I think to be able to get permission from the judge to sue, they would need to convince the judge that they were in no way partly responsible for the situation.

As you can imagine it will be highly unlikely they can do this.

The best I imagine they are hoping for is the decision is reversed and it costs ACL more to stay in business.

Then they wait for 5 years negotiating whilst ACL go under.

However in your scenario John if they got a lot of their money back. I think they would sell anything of value and walk away. Why stay in a 7 million a year loss making business if you don't have to?

Sterling Archer · Apr 23, 2014

John, do you ever get bored of continuously going round in circles with mental, paranoid suggestions?

I can't wait till the JR is over, might give you some fresh material to worry yourself into an online frenzy over.

Jokes on me, I entered this thread.

ccfcway · Apr 23, 2014

Grendal, what do you think will happen (asside from appeals from either side) if..

a) SISU win the JR ?
b) CCC win the JR ?

covcity4life · Apr 23, 2014

i hope you dont act like this infront of your kids jon.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 23, 2014

sky blue john said:
Lets say that Sisu win the JR and then sue the council for damages.
It still doesn't guarantee them the stadium or that we would be back at the Ricoh.
Have you thought they may just take the compensation then liquidate CCFC and take whatever else they can.
They have already taken Ryton they could sell whatever players they could, the golden share and be off. Leaving us in division one with nothing !!

Put it this way the big money is not in the JR:thinking about:

Grendel · Apr 23, 2014

dongonzalos said:
I think to be able to get permission from the judge to sue, they would need to convince the judge that they were in no way partly responsible for the situation.

As you can imagine it will be highly unlikely they can do this.

The best I imagine they are hoping for is the decision is reversed and it costs ACL more to stay in business.

Then they wait for 5 years negotiating whilst ACL go under.

However in your scenario John if they got a lot of their money back. I think they would sell anything of value and walk away. Why stay in a 7 million a year loss making business if you don't have to?

I had better get this over to Mark. You are clearly an expert -- it will save them a fortune in legal bills.

sky blue john · Apr 23, 2014

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Put it this way the big money is not in the JR:thinking about:

So why are they going down this route ?

sky blue john · Apr 23, 2014

Grendel said:
I had better get this over to Mark. You are clearly an expert -- it will save them a fortune in legal bills.

So your an informer, snide, grass now ?

The Gentleman · Apr 23, 2014

Grendel said:
I had better get this over to Mark. You are clearly an expert -- it will save them a fortune in legal bills.

Ok Grendel, Sarcasm and insults aside, if Sisu do win the JR and go for damages, do you think they are likely to be successful? and if so to what tune will the damages amount to?

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 23, 2014

sky blue john said:
So why are they going down this route ?

Think of all the different outcomes of the JR and then follow the progression.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 23, 2014

The Gentleman said:
Ok Grendel, Sarcasm and insults aside, if Sisu do win the JR and go for damages, do you think they are likely to be successful? and if so to what tune will the damages amount to?

JR minimal but then

fernandopartridge · Apr 23, 2014

chiefdave said:
Suing would generally be the next step if they won. However they might come unstuck here as they'd be looking at making a claim for loss of income or something similar. It would then be pointed out that they weren't evicted and the vast majority of the income losses were caused by their own actions, it wouldn't be a case of if those actions were justified or not, it would be up to SISU to prove that as a result of the loan made by the council they were forced to leave.

We all know that offers have been made, including through third parties, for them to stay which would make it an uphill battle for them to achieve the level of damages that would see them either get their money back or an offer of the Ricoh in lieu of payment.

What makes you think that if liquidation was going to give them the best return they wouldn't do it? It is of course a highly unlikely scenario, to say the least, but that doesn't mean it should be totally ruled out.

The difficulty they would have is proving a level of loss that would make pushing for damages worthwhile. I can't see them doing it, it's more about putting pressure on ACL.

The Gentleman · Apr 23, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
The difficulty they would have is proving a level of loss that would make pushing for damages worthwhile. I can't see them doing it, it's more about putting pressure on ACL.

But what would the loses be from, I know they will use the attendance but how much were they losing at the Ricoh compared to what they will be losing now at Sixfields?

James Smith · Apr 23, 2014

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Put it this way the big money is not in the JR:thinking about:

It might be for the Lawyers especially if it goes to extra time and then penalties or a replay.

Sky Blue Kid · Apr 23, 2014

Grendel said:
Oh look another intelligent thread

A bit too intelligent for you it seems Grenduffy. Everything he says could very easily come true. SISU would drop us in the shit in a heart beat.

sky blue john · Apr 23, 2014

Sisu have shown/proved funding to the fl for a new stadium. But in the latest accounts Arvo can call in the debt at the end of this year ?
So to me it doesn't look like Sisu are up for a long drawn out fight to put pressure on ACL over years.

dongonzalos · Apr 23, 2014

Grendel said:
I had better get this over to Mark. You are clearly an expert -- it will save them a fortune in legal bills.

I assume you asked him what the plan is regarding the JR outcome?

shy_tall_knight · Apr 23, 2014

Grendel's silence is deafening, nothing constructive, no insights or personal opinions ventured just sarcastic comments to fellow fans.

Grendel · Apr 23, 2014

shy_tall_knight said:
Grendel's silence is deafening, nothing constructive, no insights or personal opinions ventured just sarcastic comments to fellow fans.

I am not a legal expert so therefore cannot comment on what is likely to happen. Clearly there is an intention to argue a case and pursue actions against the Council for damages. They have a case, clearly, will it achieve the desired outcome who knows.

If they win the council will, I am sure become more entrenched in their position regarding the stadium. I believe they would refuse to sell whatever the price -- they cannot make that leap. If Sisu, it is hard to predict the next action.

The club will never return to the Ricoh while the council are involved is my ultimate view. A combination of them and Higgs is unworkable from a commercial perspective.

Jack Griffin · Apr 23, 2014

Grendel said:
The club will never return to the Ricoh while SISU are involved is my ultimate view. A combination of them and Higgs is unworkable from a commercial perspective.

I've fixed that for you..

duffer · Apr 23, 2014

If the Council win the JR, then I'd surmise SISU's only route is either back to the Ricoh on a rental deal, or selling to someone prepared to do that, or liquidate. I can't see how building a new smaller ground for £20m - £30m works financially when the club is already in debt up to its eyeballs and in L1.

If SISU win the JR, then I guess ACL will have to seek alternative funding. If they can find it, I guess the argument is moot, we are still where we are. If they can't, then perhaps administration for ACL beckons. The lease probably ends up back with the Council at that point, although either way as ACL's biggest debtor I think CCC have the whip-hand in the Admin process (much as SISU with CCFC Ltd). So there's still no resolution.

Whether SISU win or lose the JR, I still think there's a long way to go before they get hold of the Ricoh.

The way forward is still (imho) to come back to the Ricoh on a much cheaper rent deal, and negotiate honestly for everything else.

There's still a deal to be done - I'd look at something along the lines of getting half of ACL from the Higgs for £6m, and paying off half of the mortgage for £7m and then taking half of all of the income that ACL generates (match day and other), so effectively getting half of ACL's share of IEC too.

That, in effect, gives you a 16,000 seater ground, built and with income streams already in place, for a cost of around £13m - £14m. Compare that to a new stadium of around that size for £20m - £30m with no income streams in place, situated miles from your key audience, and with a motivated competitor for your main exhibition/concert business right on your doorstep. It's just a thought...

Grendel · Apr 23, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
I've fixed that for you..

No you haven't. They have shown themselves totally unfit for purpose. No owner will want them or their tin pot management company involved.

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