Scenario 3 whilst watching Wasps and doing everything they can possibly do to make life financially difficult for them.
When eventually Wasps decide to sell the business up to anyone apart from SISU abd we start again.
Suspect we are well past that point. More likely a 'get what you can' situation now. However while the club runs at break even there's no incentive for her to sell without some sort of return.Surely Joy wants an exit strategy that entails her getting her clients money back at the very least, what's that in the region of £25M?
I know, to go straight to Godwins law shows how unhinged he is.Another fascinating insight into our insect friends. The Hitler reference is incredible, what a complete idiot.
Surely Joy wants an exit strategy that entails her getting her clients money back at the very least, what's that in the region of £25M?
Can't see how she can do it unless the arena is acquired or she swings a deal to build a new one with a significant amount of bolted on housing.
Going round in circles...
Surely Joy wants an exit strategy that entails her getting her clients money back at the very least, what's that in the region of £25M?
Can't see how she can do it unless the arena is acquired or she swings a deal to build a new one with a significant amount of bolted on housing.
Going round in circles...
Scenario 3 whilst watching Wasps and doing everything they can possibly do to make life financially difficult for them.
When eventually Wasps decide to sell the business up to anyone apart from SISU abd we start again.
Like it or not, they're interlinked.Even you had to mention Wasps a couple of times :smuggrin:
There lies the problem.
They would have to sell it for a big profitt to secure any money to pay back thier their creditors.
The only ones intrested in owning it don't want to pay.
It seems who ever owns it is fucked.
The business is not saleable.
The business is not saleable.
In ways Wasps are worse off than us. Yes they have their own stadium. But they have to find nearly 3m a year for the next 5 years then find another 35m. So they need to find nearly 50m in 5 years.Where have we heard that one before?
Probably you saying it last time as well. Well, definitely not probably. So you’ll forgive me if I take your expert opinion with a great big pinch of salt based on your prior history of being correct.
Dongs scenario is very possible and sadly given how the unlikeliest things to happen have happened in the past you couldn’t rule it out. If anything history as a measuring stick probably makes it the most likely.
Didn’t you say last time that it was a white elephant and nobody would buy it?
Everything is saleable.
Ah you mean the arena?Didn’t you say last time that it was a white elephant and nobody would buy it?
Everything is saleable.
Ah you mean the arena?
They can't sell it. And neither can thw bondholders.
They would have to pay for it before they can sell it. And they owe many millions more than they purchased it for.No Wasps themselves including ACL might sell one day.
Hummm you may be right but I’m not sure you will just be allowed refinance an agreement with such large £ numbers. What happens as expected there in a worse position when they attempt to do this?The bonds need to be paid in full by 2022? The 33-35m. I think that’s right.
They will simple refinance this agreement.
They won’t sell the stadium before then sadly. I can’t see how they won’t be here for many more years.
There is nothing to stop them from doing it again.Hummm you may be right but I’m not sure you will just be allowed refinance an agreement with such large £ numbers. What happens as expected there in a worse position when they attempt to do this?
If I was an investor I’d be concerned.
In ways Wasps are worse off than us. Yes they have their own stadium. But they have to find nearly 3m a year for the next 5 years then find another 35m. So they need to find nearly 50m in 5 years.
So how much could they be sold for?
Dropping the Ricoh would be the best chance. But they would then be homeless.in a city that they don't belong. They could go back to where they came from. But they would still need a hime and will have lost a lot of their support from London.
Didn’t you say last time that it was a white elephant and nobody would buy it?
Everything is saleable.
Well it clearly is a white elephant. A prospective buyer would have to pay £48 million included £35 million of debt commitment and the current and prior owner have always ran it at a loss.
Well it clearly is a white elephant. A prospective buyer would have to pay £48 million included £35 million of debt commitment and the current and prior owner have always ran it at a loss.
Football is much bigger than egg chasing.You may well be right but that doesn’t make them unsalable. Look how many times Portsmouth were sold for instance, would they have been entertained in any other line of business? The rulebook goes out the window when it comes to buying and selling sports clubs. Portsmouth aren’t the only example either.
1.5m profit?This is what they said in March....
“As we have always said since launching the retail bond in May 2015, one of our options would be to re-finance the bond, which we are entitled to do any time between May 2019 and May 2022.
“Anyone working in business in general or in the financial industry will understand re-financing is a very common step in many financial situations and particularly for long-term asset backed bond finance.
“We would like to underline that selling the Ricoh Arena has never been part of our plan. We have said from the outset that Wasps’ long-term future is at the Ricoh Arena and this remains true.”
Wasps Badge
What else is in the accounts?
Following the publication of the group’s half year accounts, which run up to December 2016, we asked a qualified accountant to analyse what the numbers meant for the Wasps group.
The group includes Premiership Rugby club Wasps, Ricoh Arena business ACL and events company IEC and Paul Carvell has given us his view on what the numbers mean.
Among his observations are that Wasps owner Derek Richardson has poured more money into the business, but that the financial performance of the group appears to be “moving in the right direction”.
Wasps pay out £1m to investors in £35million bonds scheme
On the general performance
“Turnover increased to almost £17m, that’s up by £1.8m - a 12 per cent increase.
“Wasps brought in £8.6m, ACL £2m and IEC £6m.
“Their gross margins have gone up, so for every pound they’ve earned, they’ve generated more income from it. That’s gone from £29.6m to £36.3m.
“Operating profit has gone from a £0.2m loss to a £1.5m profit.”
He added: “There’s a figure called EBITDA - which is earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortisation which I would describe as non-cash items, but it’s slightly more complicated than that.
“This is a figure which tends to show the underlying profitability of a business. That has gone up to £1.4m as opposed to a loss of £192,000 (during the same period in 2015) and a loss for the year (2016) of £2.1m. So that is absolutely brilliant.”
“Food and beverage spend for the rugby has gone up to an average £6.32 from £5.84 - I don’t know why that is but they are getting more out of people attending.”
Ricoh Arena
How important is the Ricoh Arena to Wasps?
“The stadium is really important to them as a business.
“Income is principally from rugby matches, hospitality, sponsorship, central revenues, hotels, conferences and exhibitions.
“Sports income has shot up to £8.3m from £5.8m. For the year to date it was £12.3m.
“We don’t know what the trend is to the second half of the year, but if you doubled that, it would mean they would be doing £16.6m.
“That’s pretty good - but I’d imagine there would be variations.”
Wasps' owners accounts reveal impact of move to Ricoh Arena
On income
“Revenues are just short of £17m, and for the same time next year they were just over £15m. It’s a really good increase this year to last year.
“Gross profit has also gone up by £6.1m as opposed to £4.5m this time last year.
“Margins have gone up by about six per cent, which is quite good.
“Administrative expenses have gone down from last year. It was £5.5m in this period and £5.6m the year before.
“Operating profit before exceptional items is £680,000, that’s up from a loss of £1m in the previous year and a £3.7m loss for the whole year - so that’s a massive swing.”
He added: “They have an operating loss of £41,000. If you compare that to the operating loss in the previous year that was £1.8m. That’s a great turnaround.
“Looking at the accounts, they actually made a profit in the last six months of last year. If they do the same this year, it could be they claw quite a lot of that back in the second half of the year.”
Jimmy Gopperth of Wasps passes the ball during the Aviva Premiership match against Bath.(Image: David Rogers/Getty Images)
What are the most interesting figures from the six months?
“The figure that should be drawn is operating profit (before exceptional items) at £680,000. It’s probably as meaningful as anything.
“In the olden days we would have taken from that the finance costs. They were £1.1m.
“It would have meant that the loss in old fashioned money would have been £459,000.”
'We felt it was difficult to conclude on a long-term arrangement' - Wasps pull out of Ricoh Arena talks with Coventry City
On Ricoh Arena lease valuation
“It is £48.5m and the next valuation is due in April 2017.
“There’s nothing in the accounts to suggest that value will change dramatically, but there wouldn’t be.
“It’s done professionally by a RICS approved valuer. It’s done completely properly, it is an independent valuer.”
Kyle Eastmond of Wasps celebrates his side's try during the Aviva Premiership match between Exeter Chiefs and Wasps at Sandy Park (Image: Photo by Harry Trump/Getty Images)
Other loans
“They have £600,000 to HSBC. That’s being repaid over six months.
“Mr Richardson also provided a loan. He has put his money where his mouth is - it’s £11.7m.
“He’s put in £1.7m since June 2015. Every six months he’s put more money into the club. He is funding it and credit to him.
“They have asset finance of £100,000 and £300,000 from Close Leasing - the company can afford that. The trend of the business is good.”
Wasps RFC report dramatic turnover increase after Ricoh Arena move
On the future
“The underlying business looks like it’s moving in the right direction.
“You can’t take away that there’s a loss, but it is moving in the right direction.”
He added: “If I was them, I’d be relatively proud of it.”
Ricoh Arena Stalemate
Key players in witness stand?MP offers to helpCCFC debated at ParliamentWasps pull out of Ricoh talks
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That was 2 years ago. Things don't seem to have gone as well as they had hoped.Sorry just meant to post the bit about refinancing!!!
They may be so but that doesn’t mean that the same principles don’t apply. How saleable was Wasps when they were bought by their current owners for example. They were much in the same situation as us at the time, just in a smaller pond.Football is much bigger than egg chasing.
Not necessarily.
That’s like saying CCFC has to sell for 35 million. It won’t.
Or ACL previously had to sell for 14 million it didn’t
Well it clearly is a white elephant. A prospective buyer would have to pay £48 million included £35 million of debt commitment and the current and prior owner have always ran it at a loss.
Well it clearly is a white elephant. A prospective buyer would have to pay £48 million included £35 million of debt commitment and the current and prior owner have always ran it at a loss.
Another fascinating insight into our insect friends. The Hitler reference is incredible, what a complete idiot.
Why is it ridiculous for people to hate the team that shoe horned themselves into the stadium that was built for our football club?So, does the academy deal run out at the end of the season?
Will be interesting to see the length of any deal if we go back there, considering we are supposed to be building our own and AHC will probably want as long as possible.
Of course with so little info coming out the club we could (and do) read into Fishers beard for all the good it’ll do us.
He’s not wrong though is he? Some of the hate is verging on the ridiculous. Live and let live FFS.
That was 2 years ago. Things don't seem to have gone as well as they had hoped.
Another fascinating insight into our insect friends. The Hitler reference is incredible, what a complete idiot.
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