Ponti (1 Viewer)

rob9872 · Jul 18, 2018

As McNulty has gone, everyone is desperate to spend some cash but do we need to? Could it upset the balance or stifle our own promising talent?

We're a league higher, but JP is also a year older and stronger. Could he be the answer? Everyone seems to be pinning their hopes on Chaplin - promising, young, raw and inexperienced - sound familiar? A lot of pressure too filling the boots of a 28 goal striker and we all know how impatient our support is with the inevitable run of non-scoring games (young players tend to be more 'streaky' with their goals) hopefully as one of our own we would be more patient.

JP scored for fun at youth level, consistently bagged in the development side and shown glimpses in limited time in the first team. Surely he either deserves to be given a run of games alongside Max or JCH or alternatively loaned out to get some regular football.

covcity4life · Jul 18, 2018

had we given ponticelli his chance last year and not signed mcnulty do you think we would be in league 1 right now?

trust the manager

Sky Blue Pete · Jul 18, 2018

Mid table at best

footyfrenzy · Jul 18, 2018

I think he could do with a loan until January at a League 2 club

Sbarcher · Jul 18, 2018

footyfrenzy said:
I think he could do with a loan until January at a League 2 club

A loan? Must be on decent money by now.

smileycov · Jul 18, 2018

covcity4life said:
had we given ponticelli his chance last year and not signed mcnulty do you think we would be in league 1 right now?
trust the manager

Spectacularly missed the point!!!

smileycov · Jul 18, 2018

JCH/ponti aka Clarke/Wilson?

SkyBlueCRJ · Jul 18, 2018

Is Chaplin raw and inexperienced? He's got over 100 appearances on Ponti and is just under a 1 in 4 striker from the bench. So how are you comparing the two?

Joy Division · Jul 18, 2018

I think it would be a big gamble to make Ponti the direct replacement for Sparky. I agree he has something about him and potentially could do the job, I just think he needs a run of games on loan somewhere perhaps L2 or conference level until January.

Terry_dactyl · Jul 18, 2018

Joy Division said:
I think it would be a big gamble to make Ponti the direct replacement for Sparky. I agree he has something about him and potentially could do the job, I just think he needs a run of games on loan somewhere perhaps L2 or conference level until January.

Sending him on loan feels like the safer bet. However, if we only sign one striker then he should stay and develop with us over the season. 4 strikers seems to be adequate cover.

covcity4life · Jul 18, 2018

smileycov said:
Spectacularly missed the point!!!

not at all

we cannot risk ponticelli if robins thinks chaplin is the man. why 2nd guess the man that got us promoted? we must aim for promotion. maybe ponti can fire us there maybe not. but id rather not risk it. get chaplin and ponticelli can be part of core 4 strikers sure.

robins wouldnt keep hima round if no talent but if he wants a new signing its for a reason!

chiefdave · Jul 18, 2018

Ponti is getting to the point where he needs to step up and prove himself. The flip side of that is we can't let the transfer window close and then find out he's not the answer.

fernandopartridge · Jul 18, 2018

chiefdave said:
Ponti is getting to the point where he needs to step up and prove himself. The flip side of that is we can't let the transfer window close and then find out he's not the answer.

What? I think that's a bit OTT. He's had limited opportunity but still popped up with a couple of goals. I don't think he needs to 'step up' or necessarily go out on loan anywhere. He's still only 19 isn't he and relatively new to the professional game.

shmmeee · Jul 18, 2018

I think Robins is aiming for two players of roughly equal quality for each position. With that in mind Chaplin and Ponticelli for the "goalscoring striker" spot would seem about right. If we didn't sign anyone it's be leaving it all on JPs shoulders and leave us light in terms of cover.

Yorkshire SB · Jul 18, 2018

I tend to agree. If we sign another striker who's not particularly outstanding then are we just blocking Ponti's progression? If he played regularly I think he's absolutely got 15-20 goals in him. However it's a big risk, as it is when you give any young player a chance, so you just have to leave it with Robins to judge. I think it also depends a lot on the rest of the team, because if we're not up to scratch elsewhere, don't have the possession, create the chances, then Ponti will struggle like any striker would. I think back to Wilson's breakthrough season and he had Clarke up top with him, and a team that created a lot of chances for him, so the situation was perfect.

From the sounds of things Chaplin is a good player though, so I'm not sure it would be case that we're not signing someone worthwhile. If we can't get a deal done with Chaplin, I'd consider giving Ponti a good go this season, and look at the loan market for some competition, and then hopefully in a year's time Ponti would be in an even better position.

MusicDating · Jul 18, 2018

shmmeee said:
I think Robins is aiming for two players of roughly equal quality for each position. With that in mind Chaplin and Ponticelli for the "goalscoring striker" spot would seem about right. If we didn't sign anyone it's be leaving it all on JPs shoulders and leave us light in terms of cover.

Yer, this ^. I don't think for a second Ponti will go out on loan. He'll get regular games with Max/JCH. You'd have thought with the midfield creativity we now appear to have that we'll create some chances and he can certainly finish...

rob9872 · Jul 18, 2018

covcity4life said:
had we given ponticelli his chance last year and not signed mcnulty do you think we would be in league 1 right now?

trust the manager

I agree - but that was last year and the step up would have been too soon. I do trust Robins to get it right, I just hope we're not signing someone for the sake of it and blocking a genuine option. I may be wrong but would like to see him given more game time.

rob9872 · Jul 18, 2018

JamesCCFC said:
Is Chaplin raw and inexperienced? He's got over 100 appearances on Ponti and is just under a 1 in 4 striker from the bench. So how are you comparing the two?

Nearer 1 in 5 and 5 in 32 at this level last year. He's still only 21 so hopefully will improve further, but to be pinning our hopes on replacing MM is a stretch. The gamble may pay off, but again so might JP - both similar gambles imo and one is free and our own.

Nick · Jul 18, 2018

Last year people moaned about pinning hopes on MM in fairness.

I wouldn't mind having the option there.

With Biamou, JCH and Ponticelli it still misses a certain type of player like Chaplin / McNulty I think.

mark82 · Jul 18, 2018

rob9872 said:
Nearer 1 in 5 and 5 in 32 at this level last year. He's still only 21 so hopefully will improve further, but to be pinning our hopes on replacing MM is a stretch. The gamble may pay off, but again so might JP - both similar gambles imo and one is free and our own.

Mostly from the bench in a system that doesn't suit him though.

shmmeee · Jul 18, 2018

mark82 said:
Mostly from the bench in a system that doesn't suit him though.

Devil's advocate: Coming on in the later stages against tired legs and probably when chasing a game is a very different situation to playing from the start and arguably easier.

SkyBlueCRJ · Jul 18, 2018

rob9872 said:
Nearer 1 in 5 and 5 in 32 at this level last year. He's still only 21 so hopefully will improve further, but to be pinning our hopes on replacing MM is a stretch. The gamble may pay off, but again so might JP - both similar gambles imo and one is free and our own.

I think Ponti is a far greater gamble at this level by a long stretch. There seems to be a great deal of nostalgia surrounding Ponti that distorts his actual ability. Yes, he's a great prospect there's no doubting that. It's clear that his is movement and finishing ability is a cut above his years which is promising. But does this qualify him as a starter? No. There's no question that his record at U23 level is eye catching. But how many can find success at U23 level, but still struggle making the step up? When you watch U23 games you realise how huge a leap it actually is. Mens football is more physical, it's faster, more tactical and to point the obvious out, far more competitive. Throwing Ponti in the deep end this season won't do any good for him or the team and I think he'd struggle in League One. Not taking anything away from him because last season he did OK and it was a great first taster for him.

It's a gamble either way but if you placed a bet what are you more likely to go for if you want a guaranteed return. A 5/1 or a 10/1? I want to see Ponti get his chance but having him as a replacement to McNulty would be an astonishing risk by Robins, who I might add isn't a risk taker. Chaplin may not be the be-all and end-all to our issue in adequately replacing McNulty but he's a better option than relying on Ponti, who's still getting to grips with senior football.

shmmeee · Jul 18, 2018

JamesCCFC said:
I think Ponti is a far greater gamble at this level by a long stretch. There seems to be a great deal of nostalgia surrounding Ponti that distorts his actual ability. Yes, he's a great prospect there's no doubting that. It's clear that his is movement and finishing ability is a cut above his years which is promising. But does this qualify him as a starter? No. There's no question that his record at U23 level is eye catching. But how many can find success at U23 level, but still struggle making the step up? When you watch U23 games you realise how huge a leap it actually is. Mens football is more physical, it's faster, more tactical and to point the obvious out, far more competitive. Throwing Ponti in the deep end this season won't do any good for him or the team and I think he'd struggle in League One. Not taking anything away from him because last season he did OK and it was a great first taster for him.

It's a gamble either way but if you placed a bet what are you more likely to go for if you want a guaranteed return. A 5/1 or a 10/1? I want to see Ponti get his chance but having him as a replacement to McNulty would be an astonishing risk by Robins, who I might add isn't a risk taker. Chaplin may not be the be-all and end-all to our issue in adequately replacing McNulty but he's a better option than relying on Ponti, who's still getting to grips with senior football.

Regardless of the size of the step the next step up from U23 is first team.

Covstu · Jul 18, 2018

Its a strange one, normally with a youth player they are usually shining in the youth leagues and deserve the move up i.e. Bayliss, Wilson etc etc. Ponty is doing this but still doesn't seem to be getting a chance so MR clearly feels he isn't quite ready for whatever reason.
I think he needs to lose a few pounds tbh but the lad has high potential and hopefully comes good this season for us.

Manchester_sky_blue · Jul 18, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
What? I think that's a bit OTT. He's had limited opportunity but still popped up with a couple of goals. I don't think he needs to 'step up' or necessarily go out on loan anywhere. He's still only 19 isn't he and relatively new to the professional game.

We need to bring someone in to replace McNulty but Ponti should also be here and in the squad.

chiefdave · Jul 18, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
What? I think that's a bit OTT. He's had limited opportunity but still popped up with a couple of goals. I don't think he needs to 'step up' or necessarily go out on loan anywhere. He's still only 19 isn't he and relatively new to the professional game.

So what's the alternative? He's spends a couple more seasons making a handful of starts and then he's in the same position as someone like Ryan Haynes.

Not saying he should be playing every games and scoring 20+ goals but here has to be progression and his next step is to get more starts and more minutes to prove himself.

Specs WT-R75 · Jul 18, 2018

Ponti is a gamble for sure. However his progression has been great. 2 years ago, killing the U18s but struggling in U21/23s. Last year killing the U21/23... this year could be his breakthrough year.

thekidfromstrettoncamp · Jul 18, 2018

The guy should stay not go out on loan , last season he scored 5 goals playing mostly on the wing when he did come on . This in slightly over the equivalent to7 games a talent like that should be here fighting for a place in the team . I think he will show just how good he is given a fair chance.

MusicDating · Jul 18, 2018

thekidfromstrettoncamp said:
The guy should stay not go out on loan , last season he scored 5 goals playing mostly on the wing when he did come on . This in slightly over the equivalent to7 games a talent like that should be here fighting for a place in the team . I think he will show just how good he is given a fair chance.

Exactly. There's 18 months age difference between Ponti and Chaplin and we're talking about Chaplin like he's a wizened old pro! Maybe if Ponti gets the first team chances that Chaplin has had, they'll be on a similar footing in 18 month's time.

Nick · Jul 18, 2018

MusicDating said:
Exactly. There's 18 months age difference between Ponti and Chaplin and we're talking about Chaplin like he's a wizened old pro! Maybe if Ponti gets the first team chances that Chaplin has had, they'll be on a similar footing in 18 month's time.

Chaplin has also been a footballer since he was 6 though so he does have a bit more experience and will have had better coaching to mould him. Ponticelli has only been a footballer at a proper club for a couple of years.

Chaplin has also made over 100 appearances so there is a fair bit more experience there despite the age.

That's why Chaplin may have more experience and reaching his potential sooner than Ponticelli and why Ponticelli seems more "raw".

ccfcway · Jul 18, 2018

I think we need 2 strikers and send pont out on loan.

Sick Boy · Jul 18, 2018

If we are relying on him to score goals it could end up being a lot of pressure on him. He should definitely play more this season compared to last but we need another goalscorer to come in, especially as I'm not convinced by JCH.

stevefloyd · Jul 18, 2018

Chaplin and Ponticelli are different players, Chaplin has pace Ponticelli doesn't but obviously knows where the net is.. In Ponticellis defence he is still learning what type of player he is to adapt to the mens professional league, whenever I have seen him play he always seems to be chasing shadows to an extent, Its a pity we don't have someone like Regis who could teach the lad a trick or 2

fernandopartridge · Jul 18, 2018

chiefdave said:
So what's the alternative? He's spends a couple more seasons making a handful of starts and then he's in the same position as someone like Ryan Haynes.

Not saying he should be playing every games and scoring 20+ goals but here has to be progression and his next step is to get more starts and more minutes to prove himself.

I would suggest Haynes suffered more from being pushed into the first team early so your example proves my point

rob9872 · Jul 18, 2018

I think Haynes suffered from crapness

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